*** scraliontis is now known as brobostigon

<WastePotato> Hmm. I'm off.

<WastePotato> Bai.

<kieko> hi

<kieko> anyone know of an equivalent to http://www.yousendit.com/ for sending files, but that is better maybe?

<X3N> rapidshare ?

<kieko> hrmm... thx

<andylockran> howdy

<JohnRobert> hi

<X3N> hmm

<X3N> my hard disk is making a very regular crunch tick

<Seeker`> X3N: new HDD time?

<Seeker`> i.e. yesterday?

<X3N> shouldn't be

<X3N> I just realised I had watch sudo smbstatus running

<X3N> `watch sudo smbstatus`

<Seeker`> haha

<JohnRobert> X3N:

<JohnRobert> try 'spinright'

<JohnRobert> google it..it's available cheap to purchase, or cheaper if you're into pirating

* X3N will pass on that, thanks though

<JohnRobert> also make sure your drive has enough power

<JohnRobert> most importantly, try and get the data off if it's not backed up

<JohnRobert> which it should be

<JohnRobert> if it's not backed up, you may as well consider it not there...sort of

<X3N> yeah, it's all backed up

*** Timrit_away is now known as Timrit_zZz

<Mez> hmm, any PHP coders in here interested in joining up on a new project

<JohnRobert> to do what?

<Mez> JohnRobert, mind if I talk in PM... it's a bit... hush hush atm

<JohnRobert> hmm

<JohnRobert> go for it

<DJones> Morning all

<franki> yes, yes it is :|

<soneill> it's been morning for 3.5 hours :(

<Treenaks> soneill: you don't like mornings?

<soneill> I do generally, but less so at 5.30

<soneill> i'm usually more productive in a morning though :D

<Treenaks> 5.30 is a bit early, yes

<soneill> I am coming to loath monday mornings

<Treenaks> don't drink so much on Sunday ;)

<DJones> soneill: Don't say things like that, its Thursday morning, only another day to the weekend

<soneill> I'm pretty much teetotal! Maybe I should get up at 5.30 on a weekend too so that I don't learn bad habits.

<soneill> anyone got any interesting plans for the weekend? I think we'll be going to Hull fair

<DJones> Sleeping and resting sounds good to me

<Treenaks> ooh, the bluetooth icon is actually useful in intrepid

<CafeNinja> morning all.

<wintellect> Mornin all

<mrben> morning all

<Treenaks> hi mrben

<varun> hi

<selinuxium> Hi all o/

<varun> how to use gamepads to play games in ubuntu like alien arena

<andylockran> morning

<andatche> morning

<wintellect> Hi andylockran amd andatche

<andatche> o/

<popey> morning

<Oli``> varun: Why would somebody opt to use a gamepad for a fps when they could use a mouse?

<andatche> why would anyone use a mouse for an fps when they could use a dancemat is the real question

<andylockran> o|

<mgdm> heh, that would be amusing to watch

<andylockran> anyone big on django?

<andatche> we used to play tekken on dancemats at uni

<andatche> was pro

* franki kills mornings

<KrimZon> why would anyone use a dancemat for a fps when they could use the commandline? n, n, get railgun, w, shoot fred, duck, e, jump...

<andatche> skillz

<Treenaks> popey: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1593271905

<popey> how odd

*** leesin is now known as kubitz

<franki> Treenaks: that is a little bit awesome :)

<Treenaks> franki: only a little bit? :)

<Treenaks> franki: Everybody should have that book next to their O'Reillys :)

<kubitz> That looks about as fun as a book about databases could possibly be

<kubitz> I really like Manga - it's about as close to art I can manage

<DanielRM> That book looks awesome.

<DanielRM> I want one for Lisp now.

<DanielRM> "The Manga Guide to Common Lisp"

<Treenaks> omg.. there are more..

<Treenaks> http://nostarch.com/mg_statistics.htm

<kubitz> I just realised I've forgotten to listen to the latest podcast :(

<kubitz> I'll do that now

<andatche> the podcast must have a few new mirrors on rotation, traffic from it has dropped a fair bit recently

<Treenaks> time for a new episode ;)

<popey> we have 8 active mirrors

<franki> Treenaks: british understatement :)

<kubitz> andatche it maybe like myself, people are catching up

<kubitz> I have areal backlog of podcasts now :(

<kubitz> My portable music player has gone walkabout :(

<andatche> popey: does the "lo" in the dns name mean it should be lo on the rotation?

<kubitz> I won;t mention any tradenames as this is logged :)

<popey> London andatche

<andatche> ooh, would make sense

<Daviey> We use "uk" in the domain name for the mirrors.. It got noted that "uk" isn't the correct country code :(

<Daviey> ah well!

<Daviey> knowbody should see the mirrors anyway

<popey> he - it's .org.uk - we're consistent

<Daviey> exactly!

<andatche> :)

<Daviey> cjwatson asked if it was United Kingdom or Ukraine, and said either was incorrect :)

<andatche> setting up a Ukrainian mirror should def be a priority :P

<kubitz> Scratch that I have heard the last one - was that quite a while ago? cos I appear to have renamed it and lost the date I saved it.

<andatche> was about 2 weeks ago iirc

<andatche> 25th or something

<kubitz> Oh fair enough

<kubitz> I remember it was all about backups

<Daviey> we is due another..

<kubitz> Can't remember when I listened but I did

<Daviey> The podcast team are really rubbish! They need to release more often..

<popey> speak for yourself :)

<kubitz> I don't really need to do backups at home but it was nice to know about the options anyway.

<kubitz> I've never had a HD failure

<Daviey> hah!

<andatche> kubitz: your mind will change as soon as you do

<andatche> the number of times I've heard people say that... :)

<Daviey> I'm averaging 2 hd failures per year

<DJones> I hadn't had a HD failure for 15 years and then had two within 12 months

<kubitz> It would be nice if the pods were more frequent

<kubitz> andatche you know what they missed on that episode though - Backing up is really boring!

<Daviey> kubitz: poke andylockran, he'll be making some contributions from the LoCo members up north

<andatche> kubitz: boring but important I'm afraid :(

<kubitz> I have saved most of out family photos to a DVD and then copied that DVD but that was months ago.

<kubitz> And that wa sonly cos my wife kept moaing at me to do it

<kubitz> It is REALLY HARD to psyhe yourself up to backup

* popey backs up using rsnapshot now

<kubitz> popey I've heard of that

* kubitz googles

<Treenaks> popey: hmmm.. tabs in config files ;)

<popey> meh - I never edit it :)

<Treenaks> popey: I've cronned it too :)

<andatche> I use some rats nest of bash scripts and rsync for backups

* franki wishes he had files important enough to be worth backing up :P

<kubitz> franki I don't except family photos - are they're only important to us

<pedro-orange> I just copy my home folder to an external hard drive once every few weeks :)

<kubitz> And they're only important really cos we haven't been bale to afford to print them all :(

<franki> photos look better on a screen anyway :P

<franki> :D

<kubitz> franki yeah - printing costs are still high for some of us

<kubitz> Especially photos

<popey> i upload my photos to Tesco and then go and pick them up from the nearest shop

<kubitz> There are some online printers that look cheaper than in-home printing

<kubitz> popey yeah that's what we were looking at

<popey> all online ones are cheaper than at home IMO

<popey> unless you buy ink and paper in bulk, it's just not economical

<kubitz> popey yeah I don't our printer is very economical at all

<kubitz> But it worked with Ubuntu so I can't knock it too much :)

<kubitz> "don't our" was missing the word "think"

<franki> i don't even own a printer :|

<Daviey> tbh printing pics at home, will fade and smudge quicker IME

<popey> yeah

<andatche> I can't remember the last time I used my printer, life has become too electronic for paper :)

<kubitz> Daviey yeah they had a thing in micromart where they looked at fade and home prints often faded after just 6 months in their tests

<kubitz> andatche I use the scanner more.

<DanielRM> Hello again.

<popey> uhoh

<popey> we should ban mibbit :)

<DanielRM> popey: why? D:

<kubitz> hello DanielRM

<franki> unfortunately, my life is too papery, writing mathematics is a lot harder on a computer :\

<franki> and hi DanielRM o.

<franki> erm o/

<DanielRM> franki, kubitz: hello. :)

<DanielRM> How are you all?

<DanielRM> franki: LaTeX!

* Daviey joins the party, hi DanielRM

<kubitz> franki doesn't that math xml or whatever it;s called work?

<soneill> LaTeX ftw

<DanielRM> Daviey: hello. :)

<franki> DanielRM: yeah, i tried, but, erm, i found it got in the way of thinking :s

<pedro-orange> hai DanielRM!

<franki> i'll probably get the hang of it one day

<DanielRM> I repeat my earlier question of how are you all? :P

<franki> DanielRM: tired :P

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: o hai thar!

<DanielRM> franki: why?

<kubitz> I used paper when I did maths - but in those days it was either that or chalk LOL

<soneill> DanielRM: I was on the only one on my course to write up my dissertation in LaTeX ... I poured scorn on the others using ms word and trying to get their table of contents/references/page numbers to all line up :D

* franki isn't used to 09:00 starts :P

<DanielRM> soneill: heh. Nice. :)

<DanielRM> My Rickrolling has begun again. :)

<DanielRM> Righto, now to do actual work.

<andatche> soneill: same as that :)

<andatche> <3 LaTeX

<soneill> DanielRM: I was happily drinking coffee, probably whistling too (not simultaneously)iirc, watching everyone else running around tearing their hair out the day before the deadline.

<andatche> and bibtex

<soneill> bibtex + LaTeX = WIN

<andatche> I wasn't the only one though, a couple of other people used latex

<DanielRM> soneill: I have this image of you drinking coffee and whistling simultaneously now. I wouldn't have had it if you hadn't specified that it wasn't the case. :P

<kubitz> soneill at the risk of being generous to MS no word processor do maths very well when I've tried them.

<soneill> LaTeX pays you back every minute that it takes you to learn the syntax

<soneill> kubitz: agreed :D ... hence why things like LaTeX are a god send

<franki> hmm, guess i better start learning then :)

<soneill> DanielRM: hmmm... I was trying to offset witty comments, so sorry.

<DanielRM> Anyone ever used OO.o Formula?

<DanielRM> I gave it a try once and didn't like it.

<kubitz> Has anyone tried using Amaya - that browser/editor that's supposed to support maths?

<kubitz> I haven't but I'm curious to know if it works

<DanielRM> I'm trying to write a proof that 0^0 = 1 in LaTeX... it's heavenly writing it that way.

<DanielRM> kubitz: it just uses the MathML thing IIRC.

<soneill> DanielRM: no

<soneill> kubitz: no

<DanielRM> kubitz: Amaya's really experimental anyway. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone.

<soneill> franki: have you tried using latex at all?

<DanielRM> soneill: no what?

<andatche> I'm sure I only got my job because I knocked up a pro CV in LaTeX

<kubitz> I looked briefly at latex and it looked like a job for a day when I had more time if that's fair?

<kubitz> It does produce good results

<kubitz> I've seen that

<pedro-orange> I look at latex, and wince. Since who in their right mind would wear that?

<andatche> it takes a bit of learning yeah, but it's wonderful

<soneill> DanielRM: no to OO.o formula

<DanielRM> andatche: :)

<DanielRM> andatche: what is your job?

<andatche> I'm a developer

<andatche> mostly web development and a few bits of in-house software we have

<andatche> it wasn't really just my CV, but I think that helped :)

<pedro-orange> andatche: c# and php then? :)

<kubitz> andatche do you have to use Flash in your work?

<popey> FLASH!

<andatche> mostly C#, Python and PHP yeah

<popey> Ah-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

<andatche> nope, we have graphic designers for that :D

<soneill> kubitz: it's not very time consuming if you're familiar with marking up text I guess ... if you're happy with doing /title My Title etc and can live without a WYSIWYG editor then you will find it quite straight forward. Being able to immediately generate nice pdfs is a bonus too.

<pedro-orange> andatche: Went to an interview for a job like that yesterday. Don't think I'll take it if they offer it to me. Kind of dull writing web services all day -.-

<DanielRM> soneill: ah.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: wrong latex. :P

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: less fetishist and more mathsy.

<DanielRM> andatche: any particular field? Web, application?

<DanielRM> kubitz: I learnt the basics in about half an hour after finding a good tutorial.

<DanielRM> kubitz: not to say that I didn't end up majorly messing up my first few attempts at using it anyway, but meh. :P

<pedro-orange> ....Nice lag lol

<andatche> DanielRM: 11:14 < andatche> mostly web development and a few bits of in-house software we have

<andatche> :P

<kubitz> soneill I have used bluefish so I'm familiar with some kinds of markup like XML and HTML and latex did kind of make sense - but it did look a bit alien.

<DanielRM> andatche: I'm getting lag in the conversation, sorry. :)

<popey> DanielRM: you need irssi :)

<franki> soneill: i've looked at it a couple of times, but never actually _used_ it for anything :)

<DanielRM> popey: I can't get it to work through the proxy. D:

<soneill> kubitz: yeah, it is somewhat different to html/xml in syntax ... but once you've mastered your arsenal of the main <10 markup elements and have a good reference for the ones you use less often then you're away.

<popey> run ssh on port 443?

<DanielRM> popey: you mean SSH to an irssi session elsewhere?

<popey> i mean run sshd on a box on 443 and ssh to it and then run irssi there

<DanielRM> popey: I don't have a spare computer to run it on.

<popey> you dont have a pc always on at home?

<popey> or a vps?

<kubitz> Lag on this server is dreadful actually it's a whole second here

<DanielRM> popey: I'll end up doing that when I have, though.

<popey> or a server somewhere

<kubitz> popey I don't keep a pc on at home

<popey> kubitz: i was talking to DanielRM sorry

<kubitz> popey oh yeah lost that thread

<kubitz> that's lag for ya :(

<pedro-orange> Keep a PC on at home? That's hardly going to reduce your carbon footprint!

<kubitz> Are there any public shell accounts left?

<DanielRM> popey: the computer always on at home is usually my laptop. The router's underneath the TV and I can't put a computer there to connect them via ethernet, and I haven't got a spare wireless card for one upstairs.

<kubitz> pedro-orange I was wondering if it's environmental ?

<popey> DanielRM: sounds like you need a viglen

<kubitz> I looked recently but could find any offering irc or nntp :(

<DanielRM> popey: as for VPS/server, nope. I'm still waiting to sort out my finances.

<DanielRM> kubitz: I had lag around 80 seconds a few weeks back. :(

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: meh. I may be the most fanatical proponent of man-made global warming around, but computers are more important. :)

<DanielRM> popey: would be a good idea, yes.

<kubitz> DanielRM that's incredible

<DanielRM> kubitz: ?

<kubitz> The worst I've ever had is 5 seconds

<DanielRM> kubitz: ah.

<Laney> DanielRM: You're a *proponent* of global warming?

<Laney> I love me a bit o'CO2

<franki> well, it is a little cold round here at the moment :)

<Laney> Tell me about it - the heating is broken in my office :(

<kubitz> franki yeah there was a bit of wind whipping through the open window then

<kubitz> We've left summer now :(

<kubitz> I don't like closed windows but this is chilly

<Laney> Big windows - good for light, bad for insulation

<franki> heh, apparently summer wasn't that good anyway :)

* franki spent three months in mexico :D

<DanielRM> Laney: proponent of the theory, sorry. XD

<Laney> ;)

<andatche> pedro-orange: yeah, it does get a bit dull, but it pays the bills

<kubitz> DanielRM you didn't mean he was actively promting it then :)

<andatche> I'd much rather be hacking free software for a living

<Laney> andatche: So you've been applying for jobs doing that?

<popey> andatche: ditto

<Laney> http://www.collabora.co.uk/jobs

<DanielRM> kubitz: lol, gimme a bit of that old global warming! Girls will wear thinner clothes, only the hawt ones will be out in the Sun and I can sunbathe in Grimsby! :P

<andatche> well, no, I'm staying here until the new year, can't afford not to unfortunatly

<andatche> but I intend on looking in January yeah

<Laney> You can still work and shop around

<kubitz> andatche does anyone really make money writing FOSS? It seems rare

<Laney> Until January you should get involved with a project!

<andatche> lots of people, there are several companies around where I live that just that

<DanielRM> kubitz: Nah, I'm probably the most anti-the-thing-itself person you'll find. It really is a massive issue, the elephant in the room, but no-one's doing anything about it!

<Laney> kubitz: Many people are employed working in FOSS

<andatche> unfortunatly none of them are looking for developers atm

<Laney> I wonder if this credit crunch business could help [Ff]ree software

<DanielRM> kubitz: as it is, all we need is nuclear power and we've instantly wiped out probably about half of our emissions.

<DanielRM> Laney: I read an article saying it did.

<DanielRM> Laney: can't remember where it was though.

<andatche> Laney: if I had the time to contribute anything major, I would

<andatche> already maintain a couple of small projects but nothing significant

<kubitz> I have a friend who programs for the Iphone - even though he hasn't had an acceptance yet - but anyway he says he can't afford to write for systems like linux :(

<Laney> andatche: You can start out small - I contributed a ~3 line patch to Banshee not long ago

* popey cant code :(

<andatche> Laney: I know :P

* popey wishes he could

<Treenaks> popey: not even a little?

<Laney> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/ seems rather full

<popey> well, a little

<DanielRM> popey: you probably code more than me.

<Laney> I only code in weird languages these days

<popey> DanielRM: nah

<kubitz> popey I've never really tried but I assume at 50 it would be too late to learn really :(

<DanielRM> kubitz: never too late to learn!

<popey> I sometimes think i should get out of ubuntu community stuff completely

<CafeNinja> kubitz: coding a "flashlight" program for linux and expecting to charge .99 cents is probably not a wise idea anyway.

<popey> and devote time to other things like coding

<andatche> my ideal job would be hacking python for a living

<DanielRM> kubitz: I'm fiercely against ageism against teenagers, and also against ageism against middle-aged/old people.

<DanielRM> kubitz: anything a human can do at a given age from about 10+ can be done at any point in that period, IMHO.

<kubitz> I was looking at Java and Python - thinking it won't cost me anything - I couldn't afford to learn an MS language even if I wanted to.

<CafeNinja> DanielRM: I like ageism, when you enlighten someone that they are applying it, you win major guilt points.

<DanielRM> kubitz: apart from maybe less savoury things, but meh.

<andatche> or getting paid for kernel development, that would be pro :)

<popey> DanielRM: you have quite a simplistic view of ageism

<andatche> kubitz: you can download the "express" version of visual studio for free

<DanielRM> popey: but you're a key figure in at least the UK Ubuntu community.

<popey> DanielRM: no I'm not

<andatche> or you could learn C# pm ,pmp

<CafeNinja> andatche: and then our community would be very much like microsoft, only minus the passion.

<popey> I don't really _do_ anything

<andatche> CafeNinja: heh

<DanielRM> popey: a figurehead can still be important.

<andatche> ^

<DanielRM> popey: and look at all the work on the podcast.

<DanielRM> popey: and on IRC.

<popey> heh

<CafeNinja> I feel that open source manages to encourage passion, inspiration and sense of ownership. Those combined bring innovation, no?

* popey adds "irc" to his CV

<DanielRM> popey: and support too - barely a day goes by when I don't see you giving up time to help someone.

<andatche> :)

<Laney> "Provided informal community-based support"

<popey> :) Laney

<andatche> yeah, I'd say the community would be a worse place without you popey

<DanielRM> popey: trust me, you're a brilliant contributor to the community. :)

<kubitz> Java looks learnable to me - I don't hope to be able to code fast enough to be employable, but I might well give it my best shot

<popey> thanks andatche

<popey> and DanielRM

<CafeNinja> DanielRM: I concurr. 3 cheers for popey!!!

<andatche> kubitz: programming is less about specific languages and more about learning the concepts behind it

<kubitz> The first language I looked at was Perl and I'm sure I could never understand that - it's just too hard

<andatche> Java or Python are good languahes to begin with though

<popey> ok lets change the subject :)

<CafeNinja> and at least one for Daviey :)

<popey> heh

<andatche> a good programmer should be able to pick up any language fairly quickly :)

<DanielRM> CafeNinja: :)

<Laney> andatche: Give Haskell a go then ;)

<kubitz> andatche well on the basis of trying to read Perl I'm never going to be very good :)

<andatche> Laney: already have

<DanielRM> popey: we may disagree at times but I will always respect you. :)

<Laney> \o/

<andatche> wrote a mini-java compiler in haskell at uni

<popey> (in the morning)

<Laney> compiler to what?

<DanielRM> kubitz: I would advise learning Lisp but only if you don't want anyone to take you seriously. It's a brilliant language, just very unpopular.

<kubitz> Actually I did write some 8080 code long long ago in an Engineering course

<andatche> well, compiled it to a minimal subset of C

<andatche> assembly like C

<kubitz> but that was no more than using memory registers

<Laney> DanielRM: It's popular in comp.lang.lisp!

<kubitz> The program never did anything - it just allocated memory

<DanielRM> Laney: and I daresay crime is popular in prison!

<kubitz> DanielRM what is written in Lisp

<Laney> But of course

<DanielRM> Laney: or maybe not. :-/ They'd be too annoyed that they'd been put in prison for crimes maybe.

* franki somehow managed to pass a-level computing and a semester of java programming in uni without learning anything :)

<kubitz> I like to see what's been achieved

<Laney> So my conclusion: banish all Lispers to Usenet

<DanielRM> kubitz: Yahoo's shop thingy.

<andatche> haskell is actually pretty nice, functional programming is just a hard concept to get your head around at first

<Laney> (and Emacs hackery)

<DanielRM> kubitz: and stuff for at least one space mission.

<kubitz> DanielRM that's quite impressive

<DanielRM> kubitz: it used to be really big in AI but went downhill with the AI Winter.

<DanielRM> kubitz: nowadays there are two main dialects - Scheme and Common Lisp. Scheme's getting quite popular again; I think it's the official (if not most used) language of the GNOME project, someone correct me if I'm wrong?

<kubitz> DanielRM that rings a bell about gnome

<kubitz> KDE the same as opera I think I read but can't remember what it is LOL

<popey> yeah, i used to like doing z80, 6502 and 8080 assembler

<Laney> There are bindings for scheme

<kubitz> uses the same language I meant

<Laney> But most of GNOME is C (GObject) afaik

<Laney> kubitz: They both use QT, is that what you mean?

<kubitz> popey I think we used a z85 was that later

<kubitz> Laney ah that's it

<andatche> yeah, most of gnome is C and C++

<kubitz> We never really saw programing as separate from engineering in my day

<kubitz> How wrong we were :)

<Laney> Nah not really, large-scale programming projects and engineering aren't that different

<DanielRM> I feel young. I tried doing a little of (what would it be? x86?) assembler a few months ago and couldn't find a decent tutorial.

<DanielRM> I managed to write a hello world program in it.

<franki> hello world is about all i've ever managed to program :P

<andatche> x86 is a messy instruction set

<franki> anyway, lecture! \o

<andatche> not the easiest to learn on

<DanielRM> franki: bye. :)

<kubitz> andatche yeah we always thought RISCOS was tidier

<DanielRM> andatche: apparently not the easiest to teach either. As I said, I couldn't find any decent tutorials. :(

<kubitz> But again we were wrong :(

<andatche> 11:45 < kubitz> We never really saw programing as separate from engineering in my day

<andatche> it isn't really

<Laney> Hence "software engineering"

<Daviey> kubitz: Personally i think Java is an excellent language to start with. It's almost as restrictive as C/C++, but easier in many ways to get started. Python is a lazy mans lnaguage in many ways, and could form bad habbits if you don't come from a restrive language background IMO

<andatche> well designed software is engineered

<kubitz> andatche but programmers see themselves as more creative now

<andatche> I'd like to think of myself as an engineer

<DanielRM> Daviey: what do you think of Lisp?

<DanielRM> (Common)

<Daviey> DanielRM: Do i talk with a lisp? :)

<DanielRM> Daviey: heh, is that a 'I don't use the language so no opinion'? :)

<kubitz> Daviey I am going to look at Java first, but in some ways because I can run it on Windows as well as Linux - and presumably OSX as well though I'm not up on Macs to know

<Daviey> LISP is a really good trade if you can get it, they are one of the few languages where the coders can actually state how much they want to get paid.

<Daviey> C/C++, Java are '10 a penny' and work is drying up

<pedro-orange> Daviey: I think you'll find there are alot of C++ jobs out there.

<DanielRM> Daviey: hmmm, I would have thought that C/C++ would be better - they may be ten a penny but they're still completely dominating the industry.

<kubitz> Daviey isn't there growth in Mobile Java?

<DanielRM> Lisp is good for academic programmers I think.

<Daviey> kubitz: "meh"

<Daviey> DanielRM: but the syntax of Lisp i do like, just never really used it in anger

<DanielRM> I think Lisp is the most elegant language I've seen.

<andatche> yeah, lisp tends to be more widely used in academia

<kubitz> I'm gonna look at lisp now - I don't think I've seen it up close :)

<Daviey> pedro-orange: C/C++ or Java does have work, but it's not as easy as it used to be, and pay is compariably low compared to 10 years ago.

<andatche> and there certainly isn't a shortage of C/C++ jobs

<kubitz> any quick links I cam look at?

<DanielRM> kubitz: Peter Seibeil's Practical Common Lisp is a very good book for learning it.

<andatche> and I think the standard of developers has dropped a lot since there was a massive push to get everyone doing CS at uni etc

<DanielRM> kubitz: and the author hangs around in #lisp as well. I've actually spoken to him! :O

<DanielRM> Sorry.

<pedro-orange> Daviey: Well I went on 2 job interviews yesterday as a C++ dev. Work is certainly not drying up.

<DanielRM> I get a bit excited over book authors.

<pedro-orange> Especially, for cross platform stuff in the business world.

<Daviey> pedro-orange: And the pay is as good as 10 years ago?

<pedro-orange> I wouldn't know, I'm 24.

<kubitz> DanielRM I might order copy at the library to look at

<DanielRM> kubitz: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/

<DanielRM> kubitz: it's available for free online.

<pedro-orange> Pay is good though.

<andatche> a decent C/C++ programmer can easily earn £40k+

<Daviey> andatche: and then you are punching the ceiling..

<DanielRM> Daviey: I agree that Lisp programmers can pretty much name their price though.

<pedro-orange> Daviey: As a dev sure. But dev managers get more than that.

<kubitz> pedro-orange that's why I request stuff at the library - then the author gets paid too

<DanielRM> Daviey: I'd also say they're almost certainly worth whatever price they name as well! :)

<andatche> Daviey: well, for everyday stuff, the more specialist stuff pays lots more than that

<Daviey> andatche: good luck on that.

<andatche> COBOL is the way to go if you want big money

<pedro-orange> lol

<andatche> companies pay a fortune for them

<andatche> so much legacy code to maintain

<kubitz> andatche certainly in California LOL

* Daviey knows of 3 software houses that have gone bust this year.

<kubitz> Have you heard they accidentally laid off all there Cobolers with early retirement and none of them want to come back now :)

<kubitz> That's Cali state

<Daviey> heh

<kubitz> I blame Arnie

<andatche> I'd like to land a UNIX sysadmin job, can earn a fortune easily but I have no industry expereince so no one will take me on

<Daviey> andatche: Again, pure sysadmin has a relatively low glass ceiling.. :(

<kubitz> Daviey but presumably a less stressful job?

<DanielRM> Daviey: how so?

<Daviey> HAH

<andatche> I'd disagree, if you are knowledgeable on HP-UX, Solaris etc etc you can command hundreds a day

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: You don't want to earn a decent wage? :P

<Daviey> sysadmin is a pretty stressful job.. 3AM text message "$SERVICE down!"

<andatche> there are jobs advertised just on the everyday job websites for sysadmins paying £300-400 a day

<Laney> callout fees!

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: I was wondering whether the ceiling was on pay or opportunity.

<kubitz> I allways think of you IT types having a ball playing computer games all day :)

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: Well what do you get promoted to from sysadmin?

<Daviey> Laney: where call out fees often == crawl out of bed, onto laptop + ssh :D

<pedro-orange> Sweet FA :P

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: sysadmin... for a bigger network!

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: Please contain my excitement :D

<andatche> either way... in general I agree, skilled jobs in development, sysadmin, network admin etc etc tend to pay less now than in the past

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: heh.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: also, being a BOFH would be fun.

<andatche> but I think that's mostly due to greater availability of a skilled workforce

<kubitz> andatche that's just supply and demand?

<Daviey> andatche: agreed

<kubitz> More of you - lower pay

<andatche> pretty much

<andatche> but I'd hardly call the market saturated

<Daviey> no

<andatche> there are still plenty of jobs paying large sums of money

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: Do you get a free minion to control? :P

<andatche> just not as large as they used to be :)

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: you mean a PFY?

<kubitz> andatche I couldn't see me enjoying working in IT - I enjoy playing with it though.

<Daviey> yes, but you have to do more for less; and there better jobs are harder to get. Oh, devel for money also becomes "groundhog day" :)

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: if you're good then yes! :)

<andatche> kubitz: yeah, I can't say I really enjoy my job, but I think that's mostly because it's too easy

<andatche> if it was more of a challenge I'd be more interested

<andatche> developing meanial stuff all day is pretty boring

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: Yes :D - I would enjoy it for a while, but I need to code on a regular basis otherwise I get restless :(

<Daviey> In my previous devel job, i got rather bored of the release cycle..

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: an idea - make an app to wipe the cretins' home directories once a day in as many different languages as possible.

<andatche> you mean lusers? :P

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: and then start on variations of torture apps.

<pedro-orange> Lol. Much like the "How to shoot yourself in the foot with different programming languages" task :)

<DanielRM> andatche: ah, yes. That's the word!

<andatche> :D

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: LOL, just googled that.

<DanielRM> I like the Lisp one.

<DanielRM> "You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds..."

<Daviey> "Selling Linux" is a good trade ;)

<pedro-orange> Yes. DanielRM - Thats SO old, been added to alot over the years. The PERL one is classic and so true

<andatche> I wish there was a kernel developer job going at OSDL :)

<kubitz> The funny thing is because I have a very basic understanding of techie things - I seem to be voted the informal IT support. I don't know how that got decided :)

<andatche> and that I had enough time spare to learn enough of the kernel to do it

<pedro-orange> kubitz: Cause you work with people that are afraid of electricity

<andatche> so... no one up north fancies getting together for a release party?

<Daviey> andatche: Just change some of the print statements to be "andatche raux + original message".. :)

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/foot.htm Check the operating systems one, in particular Unix. XD

* andatche might have to treck to the big smoke

<Daviey> andatche: come on down!

<andatche> think I may just have to do, doesn't look like there will be anything up here

<kubitz> Is there a party in Worcestershire or Gloucestershire? I haven't looked yet.

<Daviey> andatche: if you do, i'll let you buy me a drink.

<andatche> hah!

<pedro-orange> kubitz: I live in Gloucester! Lets have a party!

<andatche> Daviey: I'll see if I can get the time off work, think i may head down :)

<pedro-orange> Release party on Thursday == :(

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: why?

<andatche> work

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: Since some of us have jobs.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: ah.

<Daviey> pedro-orange: i suspect most going have jobs

<pedro-orange> It's a shame cause I was going to pop down - my GF said she'd come as well

<pedro-orange> But then we found out it was Thursday

<pedro-orange> So we can't :(

<jakewc2> Hi, I am trying to send an e-mail to somebody with an attachment, but I keep getting it sent back saying 'This message has been rejected because it has a potentially executable attachment, "Mail delivery failed returning message to sender.eml" I know I dont have a virus, but its been sent using my pc, which has Ubuntu on it, installed via Wubi, would anybody know why I keep getting my e-mails returned?

<pedro-orange> What is the file type you're trying to send?

<jakewc2> its copies of mailer deamon return e-mails

<pedro-orange> .....No. What is the file type of the attachment?

<jakewc2> I am having problems, .eml

<andatche> jakewc2: you could try taring/zipping the .eml

<DJones> jakewc2: Put the attachment into a zip or tar file

<andatche> seems odd though

<DanielRM> A potentially executable attachment? What the hell? Do they think no one sends executables for legitimate reasons nowadays?

<pedro-orange> Compressing attachments usually has little effect.

<kubitz> some servers are getting crazy - hotmail wont send mdb now i had to zip em to send

<pedro-orange> I find if you rename the file name to a safe extension like .txt you can send it.

<DanielRM> If they're not using a Unix-based server with the file command then just change the file extension.

<andatche> so glad I run my own mailserver :)

<pedro-orange> But thats how I get around my server.

<jakewc2> ok, thank you, its my Host domain help desk I'm having problems with my domain e-mail, isnt working properly

<kubitz> it's just in the last month or two

<DJones> I've had similar emails when emailing a .exe to myself at home to keep, I had to zip it which still got rejected zipping it a 2nd time worked ok though

<kubitz> very recent

<jakewc2> and I am getting all these mailer deamon messages saying it cant be delivered

<pedro-orange> jakewc2: I think you'll find alot of companies block MANY attachments types to combat spam & virus spreading.

<andatche> zipping it with a password so it's encrypted usually does the trick

<jakewc2> ok, thanks for your help.

<andatche> or even better, encrypt the whole email using PGP

<popey> double zipping is even better

<Daviey> err, zip + password, can still see the contents, just not extract it

<popey> yeah

<Daviey> so you could see it had a .exe in there

<pedro-orange> Zipping the zipped file? Madness!

<kubitz> popey i do that LOL

<jakewc2> I donnt think they would understand what has been donme if I did that, they can barely underatnd things as it is.

<kubitz> they only scan one level

<kubitz> I noticed that

<popey> jakewc2: they would be fine, just double click twice

<jakewc2> sorry about the typos

<popey> "enter password when prompted"

<pedro-orange> jakewc2: Stick it on an FTP server for them to download from then

<DanielRM> I had to think a moment about the phrase "double-click twice".

<popey> it's not hard to unpack a double-zipped file

<popey> :)

<jakewc2> oh that's a point, I might stick it on my server, that would be easier

<DanielRM> popey: curse you with your confusing mixture of double and twice! :P

<jakewc2> for me and you maybe but them, its like talking to me, when I'm dealing with ub untu, lol

<jakewc2> takes me four hours to try get through to them, lol

<andatche> Daviey: how easy is it to get to this spot for the release party?

<Daviey> andatche: "not"

<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Jones] Quick guide to saving power with USB devices - http://www.tenshu.net/archives/2008/10/09/quick-guide-to-saving-power-with-usb-devices/

<pedro-orange> "DanielRM don't need no education"

<popey> andatche: what "spot"?

<popey> oh, the london venue

<andatche> ^

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: quite correct. :)

<pedro-orange> All these doubles :O

<andatche> Daviey: :(

<Daviey> andatche: it's about 250miles for me IIRC

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: :P

<andatche> I guess I'll get the train down from York, save on petrol, parking hassle etc

<pedro-orange> Parking in London is a nightmare

<Daviey> agreed

<kubitz> jakewc2 I often use Rapidsahre for attachments - zipped and zipped as popey says

<popey> dropbox!

<Daviey> I did consider flying.. but it doesn't look like a good option

<pedro-orange> Took me 1.5hrs to drive 10 miles in London last weekend.

<andatche> Daviey: got your PPL?

* Daviey doesn't see the buzz of Rapidshare

<popey> pedro-orange: that's driving, not parking

<pedro-orange> I had a parking space waiting for me at a friends.

<Daviey> andatche: Incidently no.. but I do have a Glider pilot licence :)

<popey> Daviey doesn't see the buzz of any non-free web based app it seems

<kubitz> Daviey buzz? it's just a filelinking service isn't it? do they do ther stuff then?

<andatche> cool :)

<pedro-orange> But either way, Cars + London = Nightmare.

<DanielRM> Got to go now.

<DanielRM> Food.

<kubitz> popey ah right

<andatche> Daviey: a couple of friends have their PPLs, one of them has just started "flying school" for a big airline

<kubitz> Is Zshare open of closed then?

<Daviey> andatche: Nice!

<kubitz> Cos that's more or less the same as Rapid

<popey> Daviey: the sooner you make this free dropbox the better

<andatche> really wish I had the time and money to learn to fly :)

<Daviey> andatche: I might look at getting my MPPL next summer. I did intend to get it this year, but no time :(

<andatche> :(

* popey goes for a walk

<Daviey> s/al/an/

<andatche> a free dropbox wouldn't take much writing

<popey> DO IT THEN

<andatche> might knock something together this evening

<popey> :)

<andatche> :)

<popey> call it openbox

<popey> oh, no

<Daviey> andatche: the fun part is not keeping any delta locally.

<andatche> lol

<kubitz> Is drop box this clever external sorage system?

<kubitz> storage even

<Daviey> andatche: Having fast diff between $HOME and $SERVER

<andatche> aye

<Daviey> popey: I already named my effort fossbox

<kubitz> fossbox is really good name

<andatche> yeah, has a bit of a ring to it

* DJones just read that as the name of a 1980's strange looking band called "Fuzzbox"

<Daviey> andatche: I made a non-ui jabber client/server for pushing pings to update, commit and libnotify.. That way it tackles NAT quite nicely, and doesn't require regular polls. :)

<kubitz> DJones is used to like them

<andatche> good idea

<kubitz> little bit Marycainish

<kubitz> Marychain like even

<DJones> kubitz: I seem to remember they only ever had one album

<kubitz> Not as good imho

<kubitz> DJones yeah they were form Brum

<andatche> dropbox is really just a glorified revision control system

<kubitz> They were better live than JAMC though

<kubitz> JAMC couldn't really play

<kubitz> I saw Fuzzbox on tour

<DJones> kubitz: Brings back memorys, i've still got the album floating round somewhere at home

<kubitz> Their ONE tour :)

<DJones> :)

<kubitz> That bloke form the LUGradio podcast does music doesn't he?

<Daviey> yah

<DJones> kubitz: After you've done a tour round the country screaming "I've got a fuzzbox and I'm gonna use it" there's not much else you can achieve

<Daviey> kubitz: that bloke is also the Ubuntu Community Manager - Jono

<kubitz> Shame that cast's gone I liked that

<kubitz> Daviey oh sorry!

<kubitz> I really liked LUG podcast

<Daviey> kubitz: They couldn't handle the competition from the Ubuntu Uk Podcast, so had to stop :(

<Daviey> (not _entirely_ true btw)

<kubitz> Daviey I know they just fed up they said

<kubitz> Well they didn't put it that strongly

<kubitz> But I thought that's what they meant

<Daviey> Twas a bit more than that.

<kubitz> I suppose they got too busy too

<Daviey> figlet: invalid option -- -

<Daviey> Usage: figlet [ -cklnoprstvxDELNRSWX ] [ -d fontdirectory ]

<Daviey> [ -f fontfile ] [ -m smushmode ] [ -w outputwidth ]

<Daviey> [ -C controlfile ] [ -I infocode ] [ message ]

<Daviey> fail

<kubitz> They were all doing solo projects as celebrities say :)

<pedro-orange> Frank, Ian & Glenn's letters? :P

<kubitz> DJones yeah Fuzzbox were pretty much one trick ponies - a very good trick for all that

<Daviey> It's fun to stay in the:

<Daviey> ▌ ▌▙▗▌▞▀▖▞▀▖

<Daviey> ▝▞ ▌▘▌▌ ▙▄▌

<Daviey> ▌ ▌ ▌▌ ▖▌ ▌

<Daviey> ▘ ▘ ▘▝▀ ▘ ▘

<kubitz> Daviey see when I referred to "that bloke" you realised how outside the community loop I am :(

<pedro-orange> Daviey: That fails on pidgin.

<kubitz> And here I think - does it need monospace?

<Daviey> hmm, should be any fixed width

<kubitz> My app uses Sans serif

<Daviey> Chaps, next week Oct 15th-16th there is a -Storage- Expo in london, sounds fun eh?

<pedro-orange> ........

<pedro-orange> Storage? Like....Disks and data centres ?

<Daviey> yah

<pedro-orange> I can hardly contain myself. You going? :)

<kubitz> Daviey I suppose Solid State is new but it's not that durable is it - only 100,00 rewrites for cheap chips

<Daviey> The sad thing is, i probably would if i wasn't in Scotland that day :(

<pedro-orange> Excuses, excuses.

<kubitz> I meant 100,000

<pedro-orange> Thats a Wed/Thurs.

<pedro-orange> Harsh

<Daviey> http://www.storage-expo.com/

<Dave2> Daviey: wow, is it that time of year again?

<Daviey> Dave2: wat wat?

<kubitz> I don't really what that 100,000 figure means really - surely it doesn't just pack up after that many saves per cluster?

<Dave2> Daviey: the storage expo!

<kubitz> I don't mean cluster

<kubitz> But I don't know what the Solid State version is

<kubitz> Cells?

<Daviey> Dave2: sounds like a blast, doesn't it!

<Daviey> talking of storage. I phoned a box factory the other day, they were suprising non-dull people.

<kubitz> I don't even own any exotic storage. No Jaz's no Zips no Superdrives (Gateway thing apparently from years ago)

<Dave2> Box :(

<Daviey> Dave2: Will you be at the release party?

<Dave2> The release party?

<Daviey> The release party

<andatche> THE release party :D

<kubitz> Dave2 Intrepid release celebrated - not in these backwaters but elsewhere

<Daviey> Dave2: Thu 30th October, London

<Daviey> 7PM onwards

<kubitz> My local LUGS seem to be Debian heavy so they might be offended if I asked :)

<Dave2> Daviey: a thursday in London, sounds a bit of a pain :P

<Daviey> Dave2: I'll buy you an goat-chop if you do.

<kubitz> I'm off out for dinner seeya

<Daviey> o/

<Dave2> :O

<selinuxium> Daviey: I'll be there! :)

<Daviey> selinuxium: woot, you can buy be a drink also!

<andatche> Daviey is on a mission for a free night :)

<Daviey> hurray!

<brobostigon> hey, everyone ok

<brobostigon> ignore scraliontis, he is my alter-ego

<popey> i think we guessed that :)

<popey> 13:03:21 -!- brobostigon [n=ptaylor@78.150.60.71] has joined #ubuntu-uk

<popey> 13:03:33 -!- scraliontis [n=ptaylor@78.150.60.71] has joined #ubuntu-uk

<brobostigon> of course,

<franki> i thought the 'solid state dies after x saves' was a bit of an urban myth?

<togster> Afternoon all

<franki> that they're as practical as any other form of storage?

<franki> ..and hi togster o/

* togster is not practical as a form of storage

<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] Cold Turkey - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/?p=74

<popey> franki: it isnt an urban myth, it's just a very very large number of writes which will last any normal person a very long time

<franki> popey: ahh, right, i remember reading something about how it was a problem with the early ones, but wasn't really any more

<franki> but it didn't go in to too much detail

<popey> indeed

<andatche> the number of write cycles is that high that the MTBF is greater than a magnetic disk anyway

* soneill cancels his togster order

<togster> soneil: just as well, the postage alone would bankcrupt you.

* popey orders some CDs for the LoCo

<pedro-orange> Pre-ordering 8.10?

<soneill> I'm becoming increasingly tempted to upgrade my hardy to intrepid ... but I must hold back for stability.

<popey> yes pedro-orange

<andatche> upgraded my laptop a couple of days ago, seems pretty solid

<DJones> soneill: I want to upgrade my main laptop, but I'm a bit wary because trying to upgrade brings up a warning that the Nvidia drivers needed aren't included yet

<soneill> DJones: ah, good call :)

<soneill> upgrade with haste; repent at leisure

<andatche> ah, my lappy has intel graphics

<pedro-orange> andatche: Mine too! Im going to order a CD when they become available and then will do it from CD :D

<andatche> I'm most dubious about upgrading my vps

<andatche> think I'll leave that how it is for now

<andatche> especially as it's openVZ based, so the collection of packages is a bit unusual

<andatche> no kernel etc

<ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood (X3N)] National Quaker Week - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2008/10/09/national-quaker-week/

<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Jones] openssh 5.1 chrootdirectory permissions issue - http://www.tenshu.net/archives/2008/10/09/openssh-51-chrootdirectory-permissions-issue/

<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Jones] Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid) power performance - http://www.tenshu.net/archives/2008/10/09/ubuntu-810-intrepid-power-performance/

* popey quakes at the quaker

* popey notes there's a few quakers in the ubuntu community

<popey> x3n, sladen, riddell

<pedro-orange> cake

* soneill puts his hand up for cake

<andatche> the cake is a lie

<zbrahead91> lol

<zbrahead91> Hello people.

<X3N> Mooooo

<brobostigon> hey zbrahead91

<zbrahead91> How are you, brobostigon?

<brobostigon> zbrahead91: my hip kills, but otherwise ok. and how about you?

<zbrahead91> Im good. Sat in the school library :P

<brobostigon> zbrahead91: sounds fun

*** Timrit_zZz is now known as Timrit

<zbrahead91> It is :P

<popey> http://www.vpsville.ca/announce erk

<mgdm> popey: ouch

<zbrahead91> Hope you kept enough backups and did not lose much, popey

<popey> zbrahead91 i dont use them

<Daviey> nice!

* franki is from a good quaker family :O

<zbrahead91> Good! Why link them then? :/

<SzalonyMjut> hi all

<brobostigon> good afternoon SzalonyMjut

<DanielRM> Hello all.

<DanielRM> I has Intertubes again!

<popey> DanielRM: slap zbrahead91 for me

* pedro-orange cheers for DanielRM

<DanielRM> popey: I will when next I see him.

<DanielRM> popey: why, incidentally?

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: thanks. :)

<DanielRM> How are you all?

<pedro-orange> You're welcome. Now in return you have to get me out of work without anyone seeing me.... >.>

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: easy. Run "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/?da bs=512 count=1" as root on the network server.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: then reboot.

<brobostigon> DanielRM: could be better, my hip isnt good, how about you?

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: while everyone's wondering what's happened you sneak out.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: and blame it on terrorist activity when you get phoned up.

<DanielRM> brobostigon: fine thanks. Sorry to hear about your hip. :(

<brobostigon> DanielRM: i saw my doctor this morning, about it, as he will get together with my other doctors, to decide what to do.

<pedro-orange> DanielRM: We don't have linux at work anywhere. We have 1 UNIX server which sits under my neighbour's desk that we use for testing.

<DanielRM> The left side of my mouth is numb. :(

<pedro-orange> So dd won't work!

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: bah!

<Daviey> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: amateurs!

<pedro-orange> Plus why would terrorists copy the /dev dir? :P

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: copy? It's overwriting the MBR and partition table with 0s. :P

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: hence the reboot afterwards as well.

<DanielRM> Daviey: ?

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: it also has the advantage of being semi-easily recoverable.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: because all the data's still there; you just have to reconstruct the partition table and MBR.

<pedro-orange> So /dev/?da is the MBR?

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: no, /dev/?da is a hard drive. I didn't know whether it would be hda or sda for your work servers, sda being SATA, so I used the bash single-character wildcard.

<pedro-orange> LOL Oh.

<Treenaks> the first few bytes of that device contain the partition table and boot sector

<pedro-orange> I was gonna say I just tried to find /dev/?da & I was like "WTF is he talking about?"

<Treenaks> pedro-orange: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: bs=512 means a blocksize of 512 bytes, and count=1 means write one block.

<DanielRM> Treenaks: :)

<pedro-orange> Thanks DanielRM - I looked at man dd when you first gave me the command :P

<SzalonyMjut> I have gimp 2.6.0 package and its depends, how install that?

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: heh.

<DanielRM> SzalonyMjut: dpkg if it's a deb.

<DanielRM> SzalonyMjut: if they're all debs then put the debs in one directory and run "sudo dpkg -i <directory>/*"

<SzalonyMjut> DanielRM: thanks

<DanielRM> SzalonyMjut: so for example "sudo dpkg -i /home/danielrm/gimp-2.6.0/*"

<SzalonyMjut> DanielRM: yea I get it

<DanielRM> SzalonyMjut: just making sure. :)

<DanielRM> Hmmmm.

<DanielRM> I've just realised I have no idea what driver this Belkin PCMCIA wireless card needs.

<DanielRM> Which could be a bit of a pain given that I intend on building up a customised Ubuntu on this laptop for my stepfather.

<pedro-orange> :O

<pedro-orange> ndiswrapper if worst comes to worst

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: actually no, oddly.

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: it works. :D

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: I just don't know what driver. XD

<pedro-orange> Out of the box?

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: yep.

<pedro-orange> Wow.

<pedro-orange> Respect to Ubuntu

<DanielRM> pedro-orange: and I have no idea if it will work out of the box with a command-line install.

<DanielRM> popey: as if to serve as an example of how much you contribute, the first thing I found when trying to use Google to answer this question was an old Launchpad question which you answered. :)#

<popey> :)

<DanielRM> Hmmm, should I just install Ubuntu and hope for the best?

<popey> on what?

<DanielRM> popey: I'm building up a custom install from the CLI on an old laptop.

<popey> why?

<DanielRM> popey: but I have no idea whether the wireless card, which works on a LiveCD, will work if I build up from a CLI install.

<popey> what card is it?

<DanielRM> Belkin MIMO - model F5D9010

<popey> scratch that, answer the other question - why?

<DanielRM> 'Tis PCMCIA annoyingly.

<andatche> DanielRM: there is no reason it shouldn't

<DanielRM> As for why...

<Treenaks> DanielRM: atheros-based?

<DanielRM> Treenaks: no idea.

<Treenaks> DanielRM: try to unload/blacklist ath_pci

<andatche> the kernel modules are loaded at boot my coldplug/udev either way

<Treenaks> DanielRM: and check if ath9k/ath5k will load

<Treenaks> DanielRM: most N-chips are Atheros-based

<popey> boot from live cd and do an lsmod to see what it's using

<Treenaks> DanielRM: do you have a link to the Windows driver? You can usually guess from the .inf file

<DanielRM> It's an old laptop as I said and it's a new computer user. I'm making it lightweight and friendly to complete newbies.

<popey> and perhaps less easy to support?

<popey> surely there must be an out of the box solution?

<popey> how old is it, what spec?

<Treenaks> ah wait

<DanielRM> CrunchBang isn't designed for casual users and Xubuntu's too heavy.

<Treenaks> DanielRM: are you sure it doesn't work, or is it just not connected?

<DanielRM> Treenaks: it works out of the box using a CrunchBang LiveCD.

<DanielRM> Treenaks: I'm just not sure if a CLI install will have the driver.

<popey> IMO you're going to cause pain for yourself and the user in the future, you'll have to support a system that has fundamental things missing and he will get a skewed view of Ubuntu IMO

<Treenaks> DanielRM: drivers should be identical

<DanielRM> Treenaks: OK.

<DanielRM> popey: perhaps so, but then it's not someone I'm trying to convert to Linux, just someone who needs to use it occasionally for MSN and web browsing and makes it one less Windows computer to mess about with.

<DanielRM> It was running an old and unmaintained Windows XP installation before.

<brobostigon> DanielRM: msn and web browsing in CLI, that quite unfriendly.

<brobostigon> to use i mean

<DanielRM> brobostigon: no, I'm building up from CLI.

<brobostigon> DanielRM: sorry,ok.

<DanielRM> brobostigon: remember my Ubuntu derivative I made?

<DanielRM> brobostigon: which failed on the LiveCD? :(

<brobostigon> DanielRM: with enlightenement, yes

<brobostigon> i rememeber

<DanielRM> brobostigon: and then Openbox because Enlightenment's lack of a menu editor killed me. XD

<brobostigon> DanielRM: sounds good,

<DanielRM> brobostigon: I ended up wiping out all the menu XML files. XD

<popey> that will be fun to upgrade (not)

<popey> DanielRM: what spec is the laptop?

<DanielRM> 1.7 GHz CPU, 192 megs of RAM.

<popey> hah!

<DanielRM> Last time I tried Xubuntu on it it was slow as a slug.

<DanielRM> Even installed.

<popey> I have stock Ubuntu on a 1GHz celeron with 256MB and it's fine!

<popey> although better now it's got 512MB

<DanielRM> That the Viglen?

<popey> no

<popey> an hp 4100xe laptop

<popey> I used to use it every day to/from work on the train for writing

<popey> the viglen is lower power than that laptop!

<popey> it's only an amd geode at 400 odd mhz

<DanielRM> £99, isn't it?

<popey> no

<popey> 80

<DanielRM> Oh, even better.

<popey> reminds me, need to install one as a server at home

<DanielRM> I might ask for one for Christmas then.

<Daviey> What is the max resolution people have got out of their viglens?

<DanielRM> I remember trying to partition this laptop... it was hell.

<DanielRM> Even tried with the alternate CD and left it overnight - the next morning it was still stuck at 2%.

<popey> dunno Daviey

<popey> DanielRM: duff disk?

<DanielRM> In the end I used a proprietary partitioner that came free with some random computing magazine Dad had and that did it.

<popey> Daviey: maybe check the fic page?

<DanielRM> popey: you mean the CD?

<DanielRM> popey: or the HDD?

<popey> the hdd

<DanielRM> popey: it partitioned in the end.

<popey> that doesnt mean its ok

<Daviey> popey: yeah, just wondered what people had actually achieved, rather than what was stated

<popey> annoyingly the fic page doesn't say

<popey> bah, neither doe sthe amd page

<popey> oh yes it does

<popey> 1600x1200

<Daviey> oh ok

<Daviey> Thinking about reviving my digital picture frame project, with a larger tft screen

<Daviey> not sure 19" WS is enough

<andatche> D

<andatche> *:D

<DanielRM> It partitioned some unallocated space (that used to be the installed Xubuntu) OK.

<DanielRM> "Installing the base system" now.

*** X3N_ is now known as X3N

<brobostigon> any good ideas, i am thinking about tea, any ideas of something to do with some beef mince?

<popey> chilli

<popey> spag bol

<popey> cottage pie

<DanielRM> Spag bol!

<popey> home made burgers

*** DanielRM is now known as DanielRM^2

<brobostigon> how would you do the chilli?

<DanielRM^2> I third spag bol.

*** DanielRM^2 is now known as DanielRM^3

<DanielRM^3> I fourth spag bol.

<DanielRM^3> Channel has agreed.

*** DanielRM^3 is now known as DanielRM

<popey> personally I would cheat and use a Homepride tin for speed

<popey> however I do make my own chilli when I have the time

<brobostigon> i do have the time

<popey> :)

<popey> for this recipie you need, beef mince, onion, garlic, chilli powder, chopped chillis, tomatoes, kidney beans

<brobostigon> i have all of that, except the kidney beans, i am allergic to them.

<popey> heh

<popey> ok do you have plenty of toms?

<brobostigon> tomatoes, yes.

<popey> cool, ok, put the toms in a bowl, cover in hot water, in another bowl put some cold water

<DanielRM> That was quick. :S

<brobostigon> popey: ok,

<DanielRM> It's downloaded about 50 megs already.

<popey> give the toms a bit of time in the hot water, then, if the skin isnt splitting, 'nick' them with a knife which will cause the skin to split.

<popey> using tongs/spoon, lift the toms that have split into cold water

<brobostigon> popey: ok, i am making notes.

<popey> meantime, finely chop onion - one should do - chuck in pan with a little olive oil

<popey> finley chop some garlic too.. a couple of cloves

<popey> chuck the garlic in for a moment whilst the onion softens

<brobostigon> yes

<popey> not too high heat, dont want to burn the garlic - it will go bitter

<brobostigon> medium heat

<popey> chuck the mince in with the onion and move around

<brobostigon> ok

<popey> i give the mince a bit of a kicking

<popey> otherwise it's quite lumpy

<brobostigon> good idea.

<popey> tuen heat up a bit to brown the mince and keep it moving, really stir vigarously

<popey> which reduces the mince down to tiny pieces

<popey> (people who don't do this suck) :)

<brobostigon> ok, will do.

<brobostigon> i dont want to suck

<popey> once browning, turn mince down to simmer

<popey> lift toms out of cold water, remove skins, should just slide off

<popey> chop toms, chuck in with mince

<popey> add chillis (finely chopped) and chilli powder to taste

<popey> simmer for however long you can wait

<popey> longer the better

<popey> serve with rice and nachos, grated cheese on top, and sour cream if you have it

<brobostigon> thanks popey, for walking that through for me, i have made notes, and will start it just before 6,

<brobostigon> thank you

* franki envisions a 'cooking with ubuntu' television series :P

<franki> :D

<franki> called open sauce!!1`

<brobostigon> anybody want to come over to mine for a chilli, ala popey-style.

<franki> :P

<popey> :)

<franki> sorry, i'll see myself out :|

<Treenaks> popey: I see a video cooking blog in your future

<DanielRM> Heh. popey contributes to the community again... with recipes. XD

<brobostigon> "ubuntu chilli - popey style"

<DanielRM> Hmmm, see if you can make it look like the Ubuntu logo brobostigon.

<brobostigon> DanielRM: that may be difficult

<DanielRM> brobostigon: if you manage it then take a picture and upload it.

<DanielRM> Almost said screenshot. :(

<DanielRM> But they don't work in real life. :(

<franki> sure they do

<franki> i can really take a screenshot now

<franki> :P

<DanielRM> :-/

* DanielRM demands that the joke be explained!

<DanielRM> Pretty please? :P

<popey> i make great chilli

<franki> i really press the screenshot button :P (apart from i don't have one)

<franki> but, the point is, computers are real too, remember

<DanielRM> I'm world-class at making, um... cheese on toast!

<Treenaks> cheese on toast \o/

<franki> DanielRM: the welsh national dish! \o/

<Treenaks> with egg!

<DanielRM> Treenaks: WHAT?

<Treenaks> DanielRM: egg.

<DanielRM> Treenaks: you *desecrate* cheese on toast with that awful thing?

<franki> Treenaks: very true :)

<DanielRM> franki: and you do too?!

<DanielRM> ...

<franki> indeed

<DanielRM> I don't know you both if anyone asks.

<andatche> cheese and egg is awesome :)

<DanielRM> Mailing list means nothing to me but e-mail. Now I find out it has a real life counterpart!

<Treenaks> DanielRM: you didn't know?

<Treenaks> DanielRM: how old are you? :)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: 16.

<Treenaks> that would explain why :)

<DanielRM> 17 in less than two months, woot!

<DanielRM> Perhaps a bit early to celebrate. XD

<franki> wow, 16 :s

<franki> that even makes me feel old

<franki> :P

<DanielRM> franki: heh.

* Treenaks will be 28 next week

<popey> 36 \o/

<Treenaks> popey: you're _old_

<brobostigon> 26

<DanielRM> lol

<popey> and you smell

<DanielRM> Grandads, all of you!

<Treenaks> popey: And why would I care?

<franki> i'm only 21 :P

<popey> it's called experience, youngling

<popey> Treenaks: i love you anyway :)

<DanielRM> Ooh...

<Treenaks> popey: *hug*

<popey> ({)

* DanielRM hugs the channel.

* brobostigon hugs DanielRM back

<DanielRM> brobostigon: thanks. :)

* franki hugs his screen

<DanielRM> franki: I don't know whether to take that as a hug directed at us all or not. :P

<franki> well, i know better than to hug children or strange old men :)

* brobostigon goes to start the chilli to popey's instructions.

<DanielRM> franki: what about teenagers?

<franki> DanielRM: i don't think the law smiles on that kind of behaviour :O

<franki> :P

<DanielRM> franki: bah humbug!

<franki> anyway, changing the subject, iceland have really screwed us over :P

<Treenaks> franki: and us as well

* Treenaks only lost €28, but it's still annoying

<DanielRM> I don't think the recession will become the second Great Depression I originally thought it would now, though.

* andatche thought "credit crunch" was a cereal :)

<DanielRM> Governments, especially the UK, are becoming much more affirmative and much less scared of spending money.

<Treenaks> andatche: that would be awesome :)

<DanielRM> Both really good ideas.

<franki> andatche: with that great 'downfall of global capitalism' flavour :)

<andatche> haha

<andatche> commie cereal for all!

<DanielRM> You need a firm government and lots of spending in a recession - the USA found that out to its cost in the Great Depression.

<andatche> with an open recepie of course

<DanielRM> Heh.

<Treenaks> DanielRM: I agree, but I don't like it that the cycle seems to be intensifying (last cycle was not as bad as this one, the one before that slightly less bad, etc.)

<DanielRM> If you choose Stalin flavour then you're not allowed to complain.

<Treenaks> DanielRM: Stalin Flavour Credit Crunch cereal?

<franki> DanielRM: yeah, that is true, and maybe it'll stop the general right wing trend of western governments over the last ~20 years

<Treenaks> franki: I fear we need a war for that :(

<franki> Treenaks: well, we have wars already, they don't seem to help imo :P

<DanielRM> Certainly the left will become much stronger after we recover.

<Treenaks> franki: or people need to get more comfortable with immigrants/muslims (that's what's driving the right-wingnuts in the Netherlands)

<franki> yeah..

<DanielRM> Treenaks: did you see the Sun last month?

<Treenaks> DanielRM: the big yellow thing in the blue room, or the piece of paper?

<franki> :D

<Treenaks> (yes; no)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: it was complaining about Muslim law courts allowed under the 1996 Arbitration Act when the same type of religious court has been held by the Jewish faith since the law was passed!

<franki> i hate that blue room!

<DanielRM> Treenaks: sheer discrimination IMHO.

<DanielRM> Both parties have to agree for the court to be allowed to be held anyway.

<franki> yeah, it's true, discrimination is acceptable against muslims these days..

<franki> because they're extremists

<franki> hadn't yo)u heard?

<Treenaks> franki: not just muslims

<franki> :P

<DanielRM> I know several Muslims in my year and the year above. Nicest people I know.

<DanielRM> I accidentally walked in on them praying the other day. Felt really embarrassed. :(

<DanielRM> Then again, I feel embarrassed when anyone prays.

<DanielRM> As an atheist I have no idea how to respond.

<franki> most of the kids in my high school were muslims :)

<franki> and i know exactly what you mean

<franki> crazy god worshippers :)

<franki> (no offence :P)

<popey> home time

<DanielRM> franki: heh.

<popey> ttfn ladies

<DanielRM> popey: :)

<DanielRM> popey: speak later.

<DanielRM> franki: I'm an agnostic atheist so it's more 'um, what do I say? I don't see why they pray... God doesn't seem to exist, but I know I could be wrong... um... argh! Confused!'

<franki> DanielRM: indeed, i don't claim to have any answers, but it all seems very silly to me :)

<franki> DanielRM: but i guess, being a third generation atheist, i'm very far from religious culture :P

<DanielRM> franki: lol

<DanielRM> franki: living as we do in a culturally Christian country it's difficult to avoid at times, though.

<franki> DanielRM: tell me about, i used to live just by a cathedral, and every sunday it would wake me up with the damn bellringing!! D:

<franki> and, nothing's open on sundays!!

<DanielRM> franki: D:

<franki> and radio 4 is crap on sundays!!2`

* franki hates sundays

<franki> :\

<DanielRM> franki: you'd think that with Sunday being a day of rest for God they'd at least respect it as a day of rest for humans!

<Treenaks> franki: We have a 'shopping Sunday' every first Sunday of the month here

<Treenaks> franki: most larger stores are open then \o/

<franki> DanielRM: indeed :)

<franki> Treenaks: at least that would save me once a month, i just find that i tend to want to do my weekly shopping on sundays

<franki> and by the time i've woken up and sat around doing nothing for a while

<franki> everything's closed :\

*** Timrit is now known as Timrit_away

<franki> anyway, speaking of sitting around doing nothing, i have work to do :|

<Treenaks> Supermarkets are open from 8:00-20:00 here \o/

<franki> so, adios o/

<Treenaks> bye

<DanielRM> franki: bye.

<franki> well, i'm not really going anywhere, but i should try and shift my attention away from irc :)

<Treenaks> franki: so we should stop talking to you? :P

<franki> Treenaks: yes! and especially using my name :P

<Treenaks> franki: This is too much fun :)

<franki> Treenaks: really, i don't need a reason to not do any work :)

<Treenaks> franki: OK, I'll shut up :)

<DanielRM> franki: heh.

* DanielRM shuts up.

<franki> :)

<franki> well, i could just talk you all through what i'm doing :P

<franki> it's just the introductory exercises for my number theory course

<franki> quite easy, just have to _actually_ do it :P

<Treenaks> eek, number theory :)

<DanielRM> franki: ooh, do so!

<DanielRM> franki: pwetty pwease!

<franki> heh, well question one is some prime power decompositions

* Treenaks gives franki public-key crypto

<franki> anyone know the prime factors of 643?

<franki> :P

<Treenaks> franki: factor $number

<Treenaks> franki: in your shell

<DanielRM> 643 is prime.

<franki> thank you :)

<DanielRM> In most cases you can tell if every digit except the last sums to an even number by summing all the digits.

<DanielRM> In about 90% of numbers I tried (up to 200 last time) prime numbers have digits which sum to a prime.

<DanielRM> Non-primes don't.

<DanielRM> It's definitely not infallible though.

<franki> heh, indeed

<franki> ok, question 2

<franki> prove euclid's theorem

<DanielRM> I've sometimes tried to find if there's a pattern to the exceptions.

* DanielRM runs.

<franki> :D

<DanielRM> I hear the name Euclid I think geometry.

<Treenaks> franki: wikipedia ;)

<franki> indeed

<DanielRM> And I hate geometry.

<franki> i do know it already, basically

<franki> it's the proof of infinite primes

<franki> just assume we have a finite number of primes

<franki> blah blah

*** daubers_ is now known as daubers

<franki> contraadiction

<franki> :)

<DanielRM> Ah, that one.

<daubers> afternoon all

<DanielRM> I know that one.

<franki> hey DanielRM

<DanielRM> That one's nice.

<Treenaks> hi daubers

<franki> erm

<DanielRM> And elegant.

<franki> hey daubers

<franki> :P

<DanielRM> Heh.

<DanielRM> daubers: hello.

<DanielRM> daubers: how are you?

<daubers> DanielRM: I'm good ta :-)

<daubers> DanielRM: How're you today?

<Treenaks> silent :P

<DanielRM> daubers: fine thanks. Went to the dentist earlier for two fillings and already feeling OK.

<daubers> :-)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: heh, I was distracted by teh telly box thingy!

<Treenaks> DanielRM: O NOES, TURNS IT OF!

<DanielRM> Treenaks: it's on in the background.

* daubers is deciding where to go on holiday

<DanielRM> Treenaks: Mum's watching it while I mess about making the install on that laptop.

<franki> DanielRM: you have a telly in your background??

<franki> impressive

<DanielRM> franki: that's the joy of mplayer. :P

<franki> heh

<DanielRM> Well, I think it could be.

<Treenaks> daubers: Maastricht.

<DanielRM> I think mplayer has a 'draw in root window' option...

<daubers> Treenaks: Where?

<franki> maastricht is really cool :)

<Treenaks> daubers: Maastricht.

<Treenaks> daubers: ask google maps ;)

<franki> it has cool boats :D

<Treenaks> franki: it has cool beer

<daubers> Treenaks: Why there?

<franki> (i heard) it has more coffee shops than anywhere outside of amsterdam :P

<Treenaks> daubers: (a) good beer, (b) nice people, (c) beautiful surrounding area

<franki> oh yeah, and that :)

<franki> and, it was the place where they created the eu :)

<daubers> Could be nice

<DanielRM> franki: woot!

<daubers> I have ~£500 to spend on flights and accomodation

<DanielRM> Closer integration between nations FTW!

<DanielRM> Blech, why did I say that? You can't have integration between things.

<Treenaks> daubers: http://wikitravel.org/en/Maastricht

<DanielRM> It should be of things, I think.

<franki> DanielRM: :D

<Treenaks> DanielRM: should be enough

<franki> DanielRM: but, i agree with the sentiment :)

<DanielRM> franki: :)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: ?

<Treenaks> uhr daubers: should be enough

<franki> heh

<DanielRM> lol

<DanielRM> Treenaks: second person to do that. :P

<Treenaks> DanielRM: d<tab>

<franki> indeed

<DanielRM> Treenaks: :)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: want me to change my nick? :P

<Ging> today i learned how to fill up a car with fuel without having to hold the pump

<franki> DunielRM!

<franki> :P

<Treenaks> DanielRM: nah, I need to learn how to use tab completion properly

<DanielRM> franki: dun dun DUN!

<franki> :D

<DanielRM> Treenaks: you use it in your shell everyday!

<Treenaks> DanielRM: not properly

<DanielRM> Which reminds me, I need a good .zshrc...

<franki> anyway, i now have to show that for any natural l there is a gap of length l between successive primes :s

<daubers> Treenaks: I've already discovered I can do more on that than I originally thought based on UK prices.....

<franki> see, i probably shouldn't be spamming the channel with my maths homework, but there are no good irc channels for mathematics :\

<franki> #math is just hideous :P

<DanielRM> franki: #mathematics

<franki> no, been there too

<Treenaks> franki: full of children with homework assignments?

<franki> Treenaks: indeed

<DanielRM> franki: #latex maybe?

<franki> Treenaks: and arrogant people who like to feel clever

<DanielRM> franki: since LaTeX is so useful for maths.

<Treenaks> franki: mathematicians? :P

<franki> DanielRM: i haven't tried that one

<franki> Treenaks: \heh

<franki> Treenaks: i'll try not to take that personally :)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: hoi!

<DanielRM> franki: I have made no such promise myself, though. ;)

<franki> ^^

<DanielRM> Treenaks: take it back plz. :P

<Treenaks> DanielRM: hoi :)

<DanielRM> Treenaks: what? :(

<Treenaks> DanielRM: 'hoi' = 'hi'

<DanielRM> "Hoi" = "breathless version of oi"

<DanielRM> ;)

<franki> DanielRM: 'hoi' = 'hi with a dutch accent'? :D

<DanielRM> Heh.

<DanielRM> I have an... um... not sure, actually.

<DanielRM> I've never noticed an accent on myself. :S

<franki> heh

<DanielRM> Wiki says Grimbarians have an accent, though.

<DanielRM> What a stupid name, incidentally.

<DanielRM> Grimbarians.

<franki> :D

<franki> DanielRM: grimsby?

<DanielRM> Even if Grimsby wasn't so rubbish it's still enough of a reason not to live in Grimsby.

<DanielRM> franki: yep.

<franki> heh

<franki> i bet you have an accent then :)

<DanielRM> D:

<franki> well, everyone does, it's okay :)

<DanielRM> Wanna wanna speak Received Pronunciation!

<franki> and, hey, i'm welsh^^

<DanielRM> franki: second-worst place on the planet after Grimsby.

<DanielRM> franki: I remember going to Cardiff once. Absolutely awful. :P

<franki> DanielRM: i'm from cardiff :)

<DanielRM> franki: did I say awful? I meant heaven on Earth.

<franki> ^^

<DanielRM> ;)

<daubers> DanielRM: I agree, Swanseas nicer than cardiff, even with the smog from Port Talbot

<franki> DanielRM: well, it's better than anywhere else in wales at least :)

<franki> :O

<franki> no, swansea is crap :P

<daubers> (is not currently sat in Swansea at all....)

<DanielRM> daubers: never been to Swansea so I can't comment. :)

<daubers> DanielRM: I can see most of it and the sea out of my bedroom window

<franki> heh

<franki> well, there are laws against me saying anything nice about swansea at all, but i will say it's better than newport :)

<franki> and, there's not really anywhere else worth mentioning in wales, so... :P

* DanielRM wishes he lived in London.

<DanielRM> I love London.

<daubers> DanielRM: I'd never ever want to live in London, it's a horrid place

<DanielRM> daubers: but... but... but... the Tube!

<franki> heh

<daubers> DanielRM: Full of people, crowded, smelly sweaty, clammy... confined

<daubers> yuck

<franki> i'd agree though, smaller cities are nicer

<DanielRM> daubers: still pretty cool the last few times I went on.

<daubers> franki: I'd disagree, cities = the pits

<franki> daubers: well, it's a balance

<franki> daubers: cities have stuff that is useful

<daubers> DanielRM: No, I can barely stand being there. I'd much rather be out somewhere nice in the country

<DanielRM> Give me a city over the country any day. It's not natural, the countryside. :P

<franki> and london has the most stuff in britain :)

<franki> so depending on what you're looking for, london is, i'm sure, a great place for some people

<franki> but, not me :)

<franki> but again, i don't really like living fifteen miles from the nearest shop :)

<daubers> DanielRM: Hah! When your all dying from the smog, aggravation of over crowding, added stree and financial strain of living somewhere like a horrid city, then I'll be laughing drinking my local beer with my feet up in the garden enjoying the clean fresh calm air

<DanielRM> I remember seeing a £2,000 teddy while in London. :O

<daubers> DanielRM: I saw a £35000 bottle of Whiskey in Edinburgh

<DanielRM> daubers: blech, alcohol.

<daubers> franki: My house is only 2 miles from the nearest shop at home

<daubers> DanielRM: Alocohol is good for you

<DanielRM> daubers: doesn't mean I like drinks with it in.

<franki> daubers: yeah, like i said, it's all about what you're looking for, i like to be able to walk to anywhere i need to go

<franki> not that i couldn't walk two miles, but you get the point :)

<DanielRM> I couldn't walk two miles. D:

<daubers> franki: I walk to the shops! I walk to the trains, I can also walk to the bus. It's also a very nice cycle ride to the shops

<DanielRM> I couldn't really walk one.

<daubers> DanielRM: I walk 2.5miles ish every day

<daubers> and that's living in a city

<DanielRM> daubers: I end up in agony just walking the 100 or so metres to Caistor marketplace from school.

<daubers> DanielRM: tut

<DanielRM> daubers: I'm sure arthritis lets me off at least a little bit. D:

<daubers> DanielRM: Maybe

<daubers> anyway, I need to cook some foods!

<franki> DanielRM: :(

<DanielRM> daubers: :(

<franki> hmm, anyway, daubers, i said, that smaller cities were better, and you live in swansea, yes?

<franki> that counts as a small city, just :P

<franki> or, more an conglomeration of villages :P

<franki> erm, a*

<Treenaks> heh.. http://www.asofterworld.com/

<franki> Treenaks: :)

<Treenaks> franki: they're always weird :)

<brobostigon> popey: thats a good chilli recipe, i enjoyed it alot.

<andatche> phew... home at last

<andatche> what a long day

<brobostigon> good evening andatche

<andatche> evenin' :)

<brobostigon> andatche: i have some chilli left that i made, would you like some.?

<andatche> I'd love some ta, dcc ok?

* brobostigon scp's andatche some chilli

* mgdm scps everyone who's interested a large dram of Laphroaig quarter cask

<Treenaks> DDR-DRAM?

<mgdm> OK, so Treenaks is obviously not interested

<brobostigon> beautiful mgdm, thank you

* mgdm has one for real \o/

* Treenaks has Chilean wine

<mgdm> red or white?

* brobostigon also has red wine

* mgdm more or less follows Dylan Moran's attitude when it comes to wine

<Treenaks> mgdm: white

<mgdm> I prefer red myself, generally speaking

<brobostigon> mgdm: me too.

*** X3N_ is now known as X3N

<Treenaks> I tend to only drink red wine with women ;)

<brobostigon> Treenaks: here, women generally drink white, and men drink red. i find.

<Treenaks> brobostigon: Depends on the occasion, I think

<brobostigon> Treenaks: as a broad generalisation

<Treenaks> brobostigon: when out drinking, I would agree

<Treenaks> but in restaurants you tend to drink the same :)

<brobostigon> i drink red, 99% of the time, it rare i drink white.

<brobostigon> or i have a real ale,

<mgdm> real ale \o/

<Treenaks> ale \o/

<windmill> more ale here :)

<windmill> did some one have a good recipe for chilli?

<Treenaks> windmill: popey

<brobostigon> i had a nice pint of "hooky flagship" the other day,

<Treenaks> windmill: see the log, he pasted it here a few hours ago

<windmill> wasn't in here then

*** Timrit_away is now known as Timrit

<Treenaks> windmill: see topic for url of logs

<windmill> Treenaks, cool cheers

<brobostigon> windmill: and i made popey's recipe, and it was really good.

<windmill> That log archive is cool (as cool as an IRC log can be)

<windmill> Why have I never known about it before?

<Treenaks> windmill: you can't know everything AND expect to learn something new every day at the same time :)

<windmill> I might go for tined tomatoes tho, cheaper and easier

<windmill> brobostigon, what brewery is Hooky flagship, never heard of it

<brobostigon> windmill: hook norton

<windmill> oh yeah I have heard of them

<windmill> should have guessed really

<brobostigon> windmill: its one of there seasonal beers, the pub i go to, only had 2 barrels

<brobostigon> windmill: mt fav from hook norton is, old hooky.

<mgdm> sounds like the bassist in New Order

<brobostigon> hook norton is a local brewery to me, around 15 mins drive away.

<windmill> hmm do I go to tesco now and buy ingredients for chilli or just have beans on toast............

<franki> mmmmm, beans :P

* franki tempts windmill with laziness

<franki> :P

<brobostigon> windmill: make chilli beans?

<brobostigon> chilli beans on toast

<windmill> brobostigon, unfortunately I'm short of almost everything

<windmill> including chilli

<brobostigon> oh

<windmill> but I am hungry

<windmill> I can't be arsed to go out now

<windmill> beans on toast it is

<mgdm> beans on cheese on toast is an interesting variation

<mgdm> enhanced by the addition of HP sauce, I find

<windmill> I have got abit of cheese

<brobostigon> and some worstershire saice.

<windmill> mgdm, good thinking, it's a plan

<X3N> hmm this is odd: card reader: [16515.860469] sd 9:0:0:3: [sdi] 253888 512-byte hardware sectors (130 MB)

<X3N> but no device to mount

<mgdm> brobostigon: good call

<mgdm> windmill: it kept me going in my studenty days ;)

<brobostigon> :-D

<Seeker`> eww, HP

<X3N> this is really frustrating

<X3N> the card is there, but it's not mountable :|

<WastePotato> Yo.

<brobostigon> good evening WastePotato

<WastePotato> Thanks.

<X3N> hmm removing the usb2 support seems to work

<WastePotato> Pop.

<X3N> I was sure that bug was fixed though :|

<WastePotato> o:

<WastePotato> Oh Gawd.

<WastePotato> I have to start searching for work experience placements.

<Samuel-NotAFK> MY NETBOOK USES UBUNTU

<Samuel-NotAFK> And it has no caps-lock led. ><

<mgdm> hehehe

<Nafallo> haha

<Nafallo> Samuel-NotAFK: there should be an applet for that though

<Samuel-NotAFK> Nafallo: What's it called?

<Nafallo> Samuel-NotAFK: no idea.

<Samuel-NotAFK> I cracked a 128bit WEP key today in just a few minutes on my netbook. :)

<popey> brobostigon: excellent!

* popey is having home made sausage casserole tonight

<brobostigon> popey: sounds good

<Treenaks> popey: recipes.popey.com?

<popey> ooooo idea :)

<Treenaks> popey: I think you should make it a video blog :)

<popey> hmmmmm

<Treenaks> popey: "here's one I prepared earlier"

<popey> that's actually not a bad idea

<popey> video editing ugh tho

<Treenaks> yeah, I know

<brobostigon> ubuntu recipes by popey

<popey> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

<linux1> evening everybody

<brobostigon> good evening linux1

<Treenaks> howdy linux1

<linux1> hows is everyone today ?

*** Timrit is now known as Timrit_away

<brobostigon> linux1: i cant stand nor walk properly, my hip is seriously playing up, so not good really.

<linux1> brobostigon, :(

<brobostigon> linux1: i talked to my consultant this morning, and we looked at my ct and xray 's, and it not healing, and is getting worse,

<brobostigon> so i am not a happy bunny.

<popey> :S

<brobostigon> linux1: how are you?

<linux1> brobostigon, that not good to hear, is there anything else thay can do

<brobostigon> linux1: they are looking at more surgery to put in more support,

<brobostigon> some more metal bolts and soe metal plating.

<linux1> brobostigon, im very tired and stressed as the person from ntl found out eairler

<brobostigon> linux1: what happened?

<popey> does he have a cable modem sticking out of his chest cavity?

<brobostigon> a usb cable modem maybe?

<DanielRM> brobostigon: you becoming Frankenstein? ;)

<brobostigon> DanielRM: i just need a wireless interface in my brain dont i.

<linux1> brobostigon, the wife was trying to change are tariffs and she said she would change to bt and he started all the sale bumf which included trying to tell he we have fibre optic to are house -- which the wife belived for a very short time

<DanielRM> brobostigon: heh, methinks Frankie didn't have one of those, but it would be cool if you did. :)

<brobostigon> linux1: so this person ended up some a sharp object in his private did he.?

<linux1> brobostigon, he also kept getting her name wrong which i corrected and he said whatever

<DanielRM> linux1: he got shot?

<brobostigon> linux1: so he was very inpolite

<linux1> brobostigon, if he was near me he would have at one point i gave the phone back to the wife and walk out of the room to calm down

<linux1> brobostigon, when i correct him about the fiber optic cable he asked me how i knew did i lay the cables

<linux1> brobostigon, yeah and missinformed

<brobostigon> linux1: so you through him out.

<brobostigon> threw*

<linux1> brobostigon, he was on the phone

<brobostigon> linux1: oh, you hung up on him then?

<brobostigon> linux1: and claimed superior knowledge

<linux1> brobostigon, no the wife finished off the call it normaly end up with them putting the phone down on me

<brobostigon> linux1: oh,well.

<linux1> anyone in here got an x-fi ?

<windmill> Bloody hell, chose the wrong option there, opted for beans, found some herbs and garlic, decided to throw them in. Opened the cupboard dropped the garlic, bent down to pick it up and stood up straight into the cupboard door.... Blood trickling down the side of me head... should have gone to tesco

<brobostigon> windmill: :-(

<WastePotato> windmill: D:

<windmill> on the plus side the beans taste ok :)

<brobostigon> windmill: thats good, enjoy

<daubers> Yargh

<daubers> Get yee off the poop deck and fasten down the midden

<windmill> I think talk like a pirate day was weeks ago

<daubers> windmill: Avast ye landlubber! It always be talking like a pirate time

<windmill> quite right, jolly good show, you carry on.

<mgdm> daubers: I'd bet you mean "mizzen"

<mgdm> midden == a pile of crap

<mgdm> :)

<daubers> mgdm: Exactley the kind of think you wouldn't want laying about a boat in a storm then

<mgdm> s/in a storm //

<daubers> :p

<mgdm> </pedantry>

<Treenaks> I didn't know they stacked shit that high!</fullmetaljacket>

<Ryken> is there a way to stop xchat on ubuntu to stop auto joining to this network and channel?

<franki> everybody (british :P) sign this! http://www.protectthehuman.com/42days (not that i'm telling anyone what they should think...)

<Samuel-NotAFK> franki: Who here isn't British?

<andatche> more people than you would think :)

<franki> Samuel-NotAFK: those pesky foreigners get everywhere :)

<Samuel-NotAFK> franki: damn right

<franki> Samuel-NotAFK: i know, every country i've ever been to has been full of them :(

<franki> in fact, about 99% of the world's population are foreign

<franki> :P

* brobostigon watches the dust ball roll past,

<DanielRM> Cursed Fantastic Contraption is distracting me from real work. D:

<brobostigon> DanielRM: know any good jokes?

<popey> brobostigon: Q. What's the best thing about kinky sex?

<popey> brobostigon: A. Wiping the blood off the hammer.

<brobostigon> :)

<popey> franki: signed

<franki> \o/

<windmill> Q. What's the difference between a star of David and Tottenham Hotspur?

<windmill> A. A star of David has got more points.

<brobostigon> windmill: :)

<franki> i like; what scratches on the window, bubbles and then explodes?

<franki> a baby in a microwave

<franki> hmm, there used to be a website called thisisacryforhelp.com or something that had pages of dead baby jokes...

* franki feels bad for lowering the tone of the channel :|

<windmill> This Viglen MPC-L is a bloody marvelous little machine, so handy as a back-up server with a big USB disk attached. Can't beat it for 79 quid.

<windmill> I wonder if viglen are still doing the deal

<daubers> "the deal"

<waveform> windmill: now 99 quid according to http://www.viglen.co.uk/viglen/Products_Services/Product_Range/Product_file.aspx?eCode=XUBUMPCL&Type_Info=Description&Type=Desktops&GUID

<waveform> (not sure if it's generally available though; "contact your account manager")

<windmill> waveform, yeah that always said that, but if you emailed the address you got it for 79 inc vat and delivery

<waveform> sweet :)

<waveform> windmill: where are the specs for that? would be interesting to compare to the tranquilpc stuff

<windmill> it's not very powerful, 400MHz cpu

<windmill> comes with 512 of ram

<windmill> the really nice thing about it is it's so low power that it doesn't need a fan, so it's really quiet

<windmill> what is the tranquilpc anyway?

<waveform> windmill: http://www.tranquilpc-shop.co.uk/acatalog/T7_Ubuntu_PC.html

<WastePotato> http://www.ewayco.com/51-embedded-systems-100-PC-mini-ITX-low-cost/11-tk-800mhz-low-cost-pc-embedded-system.html <-- Looks cute.

<waveform> rather more expensive, but pretty powerful (atom - still fanless though)

<WastePotato> I really have to stop calling hardware cute.

<waveform> hehe - I'm afraid my first words upon unpacking the OH's eee were indeed "cute!"

<windmill> I see you can buy the Acer aspire One in tesco for £198 now

<windmill> There are amazing numbers of linux machine on sale these days

<brobostigon> windmill: its brilliant

<brobostigon> got to go to bed, need to be up early in the morning,

<brobostigon> good night

* daubers heads off to bed too

<daubers> night all

*** ompaul_ is now known as ompaul

<WastePotato> Hmm.

<logicport> got good question

<logicport> who here has problems wid rsi

<JohnRobert> not I, sorry

<JohnRobert> my fingers are so long that I don't get rsi

<phayz> can anyone recommend a dark-ish gtk theme? i quite like "dust" but it needs an svn version of murrine

<logicport> i got long 1s

<logicport> too

Generated by irclog2html.pl 2.1 by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net!