<jayteeuk> "Linux zaurus 2.4.18-rmk7-pxa3-embedix #3 Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:15:57 +0000 armv5tel unknown"

<daviey> nice, latest openzaurus has kernel 2.6.20

<daviey> except SL5500 and SL5600 models :(

<daviey> Would you buy a zaurus again?

<jayteeuk> I haven't kept up with the specs of the more recent models, or Sharp's support of them.

<jayteeuk> But if after doing some research it turned out their attitude was still the same, then no.

<jayteeuk> There are no Linux sync tools that come with it (I have the SL5600). I got involved with a project to try and help reverse engineer the protocol.

<jayteeuk> Andrew de Pont did most of the work, I just provided a couple of network captures.

<jayteeuk> Things have proably progressed a lot since the SL5600, I don't know.

<jayteeuk> But it did seem somewhat myopic of Sharp to release a Linux-based PDA and not expect people to buy it simply for the Linux factor, so being totally unprepared to support such a community.

<jayteeuk> Having said that, I haven't really owned another PDA to compare it against -- so it may just be that I don't really need a PDA at all.

<jayteeuk> Anyway... it's that time again.

<daviey> so it is

<daviey> have fun

<jayteeuk> Now I've given the Zaurus such a glowing review, do you want to buy mine? :-P

<daviey> £5?

<daviey> :P

<jayteeuk> Plus P&P. ;)

<daviey> £50 p&p?

<jayteeuk> Hehehe. :)

<jayteeuk> Right, I'm off to bed. I've still got stuff to do before I get any sleep.

<jayteeuk> Night all!

<daviey> there is a debian project for it - suppose ubuntu could be ported to it ;)

<daviey> night

<AndrewB> night?

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: Monday <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/146899.html>

<popey> mooo

<loudmouthman> Morning all you crazy sons of batches!

<GazzaK> loudmouthman, morning you nutter

<GazzaK> you have lost your capitals :p

<loudmouthman> yeah it depends on where i log in from .

<GazzaK> and your punctuation is messed up too .

<GazzaK> | . |

<loudmouthman> what the space after the . its the keyboard is a little crumbed up.

<GazzaK> well un-crumb it then? :-)

<GazzaK> how are you this lovely overcast day then?

<GazzaK> I drove in with the roof down, got laughed at by a load of school kids!

<loudmouthman> should have gotten dressd first then

<Seeker`> ...?

<GazzaK> hehe, morning Seeker`

<popey> moo

* popey has received some spam from Apple

<popey> "See why your next computer should be a Mac."

<popey> they clearly dont know me very well

<GazzaK> does anyone?

<loudmouthman> want to ?

<popey> to blog or not to blog, that is the question

<GazzaK> no one reads it anyways, so who cares

<popey> o_O

<popey> latest story on my blog - "42505 reads"

<popey> :p

* loudmouthman locates his bag.

<GazzaK> popey, being sarcastic doesn't really work on irc does it

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Of course not. Noone ever gets sarcasm.

* popey installed ipcop at home as his new firewall/router

<popey> disk went phut last night :(

<popey> so will reinstall ipcop again tonight

<GazzaK> phut :-) such a descriptive word

<GazzaK> popey, you do get that I was being sarcastic? I know your blog is read a lot

<popey> :)

<GazzaK> got my new cooker yesterday

<popey> blimey

<popey> you dont hang around

<GazzaK> popey, I was hungry!

<popey> when is it delivered?

<GazzaK> got that one from Comet, the one with the gas hob too

<GazzaK> it was fitted last night by my dad and I

<popey> hehe

<GazzaK> (not the hob, that needs a gas bloke)

<popey> indeed

<GazzaK> but the oven is a doodle to fit

<GazzaK> and we picked it up at 6pm yesterday

* popey has a boatload of trivia questions

<popey> we should have a trivia quiz

<Seeker`> popey: Go on then

<popey> now?

<loudmouthman> well it is a tuesday .

<popey> here or somewhere else?

<loudmouthman> why not ? whatever floats yer boat.

<popey> okeydokey

<GazzaK> do it here, might as well

<popey> Q1. Who murderd Harry Potter's parents?

<Seeker`> Voldemory

<Seeker`> - spelling mistakes

<popey> close

<popey> anyone else?

<GazzaK> - side note, he is nice in that play \o/ willys \o/

<GazzaK> voldermort

<popey> Answer: Lord Voldemort

<popey> GazzaK is closest :)

<GazzaK> \o/

<Seeker`> how is he closest?

<loudmouthman> jk rowling

<loudmouthman> she wrote it , she did it .

<popey> spelling :)

<popey> Q2. A Morgan, a small dog, a liner and an iron. Where will you find them together?

<loudmouthman> monopoly

<Seeker`> he added in an extra character - i just hit the wrong key on the keyboard

<popey> Correct :)

<GazzaK> Seeker`, we can be joint then?

<popey> Q3. Who was the Muppet with the extra long nose?

<loudmouthman> gonzo

<Seeker`> popey: Gazzak!

<popey> lol

<popey> Correct :)

<popey> Q4. What was the name of john Travolta's character in 'Pulp Fiction'?

<GazzaK> Seeker`, I have a long tongue, not a long nose :p

<loudmouthman> Vincent vega

<popey> Correct :)

<popey> Q5. What is the only venomous mammal in the world?

<Seeker`> platypus

<Seeker`> duck billed

<popey> Correct :)

<popey> even more correct

<loudmouthman> bugger was typing that

<Seeker`> the male has small barbs on his back legs with venom

<popey> Q6. What is a rhinoceros' horn made of?

<loudmouthman> hair

<Seeker`> pixie dust!

<popey> Correct :)

<popey> (hair)

<GazzaK> lol

<popey> Q7. What does the 'mp' stand for in mp3 players?

<ormiret> motion picture

<popey> correct :)

<loudmouthman> might play ?#

<popey> Q8. Which actor who played Dr. Who, collapsed and died at a Dr. Who convention?

<loudmouthman> troughton

<loudmouthman> patrick

<popey> Correct :)

<loudmouthman> im so ... sad !

<GazzaK> agreed

<popey> right, time for some hard ones then :)

<popey> Q9. In the Flintstones what is the name of Fred and Wilma's daughter?

<loudmouthman> pebbles

<GazzaK> awwww

<popey> Correct :)

<GazzaK> and bam bam was the neighbours kid \o/

<popey> Q10. What did Jack in Jack and the Beanstalk trade to get his magic beans?

<Seeker`> cow

<loudmouthman> cow

<popey> ooo.. close :)

<Seeker`> his mothers cow?

<popey> Yes, it was his mothers cow :)

<popey> Q11. Which rank in UK peerage is directly above a Baron?

<loudmouthman> cbe

<Seeker`> Lord?

<popey> no

<loudmouthman> <grin> . go tthat wrong.

<Seeker`> viscount

<loudmouthman> biscuit !

<popey> nice googling :)

<Seeker`> mmm...minty

<Seeker`> popey: I dont think anyone else was going to get it

<popey> Correct

<popey> Q12. Only once has a palindromic pop group taken a palindromic pop song to the UK top 10. Name the group and the song.

<Seeker`> SOS

<loudmouthman> abba

<popey> \o/ joint effort

<Seeker`> :D

<loudmouthman> hmmm jonit

<popey> Q13. Jessica Fletcher is the main character in which TV series?

<Seeker`> murder, she wrote

<GazzaK> Murder She Wrote

<popey> Correct

<GazzaK> damnit, I have capitals :p

<Seeker`> I have the comma

<popey> lol

<GazzaK> lucky tsmithe isn't here, he goes mad for quizzes

<popey> Q14. What is the angle between tha hands of a clock at 1 o'clock?

<Seeker`> 30 degrees

<loudmouthman> 90 degress ./ 3

<popey> Correct Seeker`

<popey> Q15 What is the chemical symbol for Ozone?

<loudmouthman> or 360 / 12

<Seeker`> O3

<popey> Correct Seeker`

* GazzaK hides from Seeker`

<popey> 5 more?

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Why are you hiding?

<GazzaK> \o/

<GazzaK> you are getting them all :p

<popey> Q16. Which is the heaviest organ in the human body?

<ormiret> skeleton

<GazzaK> intestines

<Seeker`> liver

<Seeker`> or skin

<popey> no

<loudmouthman> brain

<popey> correct Seeker`

<popey> ~2.5KG on average

<GazzaK> is skin a organ then?

* loudmouthman sniggers at the answer he was goingn to give.

<GazzaK> wow

<popey> yus

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Yep

<GazzaK> loudmouthman, not in your case hey

<Seeker`> its the largest organ in the body

<loudmouthman> gazzak. you never complained !

<popey> Q17. In golf what is the American term for a bunker?

<GazzaK> sandpit?

<popey> close

<GazzaK> sandtrap

<Seeker`> sandtrap

<ormiret> sand trap

<popey> heh

<popey> Correct, all of you

<popey> Q18. The name of which chinese dish means bits and pieces?

<GazzaK> chowmein

<GazzaK> arghhh, I'm hungry now

<popey> nope

<Seeker`> mein means wheat i think

<popey> Answer: Chop suey

<popey> Q19. Which word, commonly used in English and other languages is the Tamil word for 'sauce'?

<ormiret> ketchup

<loudmouthman> HP

<popey> no

<Seeker`> curry

<popey> correct Seeker`

<GazzaK> umm, more hungry now

<popey> Last question..

<popey> Q20. Which is the first animal listed in the Oxford English Dictionary?

<Seeker`> aardvark

<popey> Correct!

<GazzaK> cool quiz popey

<popey> :)

<popey> ta

<Seeker`> thanks popey

<popey> we can do it again I have hundreds of questions here

<popey> (another time)

<GazzaK> cool

<loudmouthman> cheers popey

<Seeker`> who won then?

<GazzaK> arghhh, passport applications are not fun when you were born outside the UK

<popey> maybe during a meeting I will drop some quiz questions in :)

<GazzaK> Seeker`, you did

<popey> probably you Seeker` :)

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Where were you born?

<popey> i wasnt counting

<popey> "Don't phone in, it's just for fun"

<GazzaK> Seeker`, Germany

<Seeker`> :P

<popey> i need to renew my passport quickly

<popey> before all these stupid new measures come in

<loudmouthman> sharon and I have discussed just leaving the UK .

<Seeker`> popey: They already put an RFID tag in all new passports

<GazzaK> loudmouthman, a work mate just left for Oz

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Surely renewal isn't too hard?

<popey> Seeker`: http://www.renewforfreedom.org/

<popey> more those reasons

<loudmouthman> well I have a awful lot of family in NZ and lots of friends in Paris . its a question of how long liberties will last ?

<loudmouthman> interesting how my blog post proceeds discussions in LR about command line vs gui.

<loudmouthman> must remember to not stalk jono so much.

<popey> i left kent irc channel because there are command line bigots in there

<loudmouthman> Well im agnostic each had a strength but theres quite a "attitude" that command line is inferior.

<popey> i love the command line, but there is no need to push it down peoples throats

<Seeker`> popey: Good job I sent off my application last week then

<loudmouthman> did you feel i was pushy ? i hoped when I thought and edited it that I was being clear that commandline is being second classed as a tool set.

<popey> pushy when loudmouthman ?

<loudmouthman> popey , in my command line comments on my blog .

<loudmouthman> im more aware that support people who are command line literate tend towards better skilled and more rounded in how they can respond to support issues.

<popey> oh, i have not read it

<popey> have now

<popey> i have a similar blog post brewing about how much forums suck

<GazzaK> Arrgh - If you are naturalised or registered as a British National your citizenship document(s) will need to be supplied with your application

<GazzaK> what the f is a "citizenship document"

<Seeker`> Birth Certificate? Some other document that says you are british?

<popey> he wasnt born here Seeker`

<popey> he was born on another planet :)

<GazzaK> I don't have any of that!

<GazzaK> I was born in Germany, as Dad was in the Barmy

<GazzaK> and I have no paperwork with stuff like that!

<GazzaK> arghhhh

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Are you british?

<GazzaK> yes

* loudmouthman prepares to kick gazzak into ubutnu-de <grin>

<Seeker`> GazzaK: You have a german birth certificate?

<GazzaK> but it asks "were you born in a foreign country" and I was, but then it asks for name of the consulate and date of registration

<Seeker`> GazzaK: ask your parents?

<loudmouthman> why dont customers WAIT to listen to the question before starting to answer ? it just results in them not hearing what im asking and im then repeating myself . aaaaaaaargh

<Seeker`> loudmouthman: They are making you work for your money

<loudmouthman> its like a scene from the IT Crowd. they seriosly dont know what a power button is.

<jayteeuk> Morning all.

<loudmouthman> in hamachi there is a icon which looks like a power button , currenlty the tool tip says power on . they are seriously arguing on the phone that this means its switched on !

<GazzaK> sod this, their telephone help is crap

<GazzaK> all I want is a damn passport so I can get out of this horrid country

<GazzaK> I might go buy a kayak

<popey> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Photography/

<loudmouthman> i wonder it the petition site will ever consider a digg scheme ? voting for or against ideas ?

<loudmouthman> i shall propose two petitions then <grin>

* popey wonders when the new lug server will arrive

* popey stabs the vendor in the chest to find out

<popey> hello nelly

<nelly> mornin'

* Seeker` wants more computers. And a bigger house to put them in.

<DaveMorris> Seeker`: use virtilzation ;)

<Seeker`> DaveMorris: Not the same :P

<popey> mate of mine has rationalised everything to one main computer running uml

<popey> plus a windows desktop for gaming

* Seeker` wants a decent MythTV setup

<Seeker`> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

<popey> <das05r> i just heard some bad news on talk radio

<popey> <das05r> hans reiser has been found dead in his texas ranch

<popey> unconfirmed

<loudmouthman> well if its true at least they found 1 body

<loudmouthman> now thats classic http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6444501.stm

<jayteeuk> Hahah.

<Webspot> lol

*** neuro|irssi is now known as neuro_

<GazzaK> popey, I have to admit something

<GazzaK> I bought a new kettle last night too, guess what it does

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Changes colour.

<Seeker`> And, at a guess, it turns blue

<GazzaK> yeah, such a barry thing eh

<GazzaK> it looks cool and the cat loves it

<GazzaK> but popey will hate it

<GazzaK> what use is the "keep warm" function though!

<GazzaK> it's like "pimp my kitchen" at my place now

* jayteeuk grumbles about recruitment agencies.

<Norf-ubu> G'day

<Seeker`> mornin

<Norf-ubu> big update to feisty by the looks of it

* Norf-ubu clicks install and says a little prayer

<DaveMorris> GazzaK: We have that kettle at work

<GazzaK> DaveMorris, it's right pimped out eh

<DaveMorris> yep, I'm waiting for the networked kettles to come out, which I can boil from a web browser/shell if there is enough water in it

<DaveMorris> *runs to the patent office

<GazzaK> owww, funky light http://www.lights2go.co.uk/lights/Hydra%20fan%20lrg.jpg

<selinuxium> I know this is blasphemous, but does anyone know a good microsoft irc support channel?

<treb0r> i'm not sure that such a thing exists..

<popey> selinuxium: there are microsoft official newsgroups which is as good as you are going to get

<GazzaK> selinuxium, see my answer in -offtopic

<selinuxium> GazzaK: popey cheers! :)

<GazzaK> selinuxium, is it a difficult question?

<popey> selinuxium: ask in here, see if we laugh

<GazzaK> yeah, do it :p

<GazzaK> hahahaha

<GazzaK> oh sorry, a bit pre-emtive there

<popey> hehe

<GazzaK> sorry that was bad of me

<GazzaK> OMG http://www.lights2go.co.uk/lights/Odyssey%20hi-res_1.jpg

<GazzaK> woooooo

<DaveMorris> would be funny if we where more helpfull than the MS irc support changles

<Norf-ubu> quick Q. RDP on windows, is there an accessory on linux that can be installed so RDP can connect to a linux box ?

<GazzaK> changles?

<DaveMorris> channels

<DaveMorris> can't type

<DaveMorris> nice light, how much?

<GazzaK> Norf-ubu, guessing, but I think it can only go linux client > RDP machine, not the other way round

<GazzaK> PriceChild, kernel works then

<Norf-ubu> yeah its a one way shot so far, be nice if it was 2 way

<GazzaK> DaveMorris, 680 squid

<Norf-ubu> ho hum - back to VNC

<DaveMorris> sod that!

<PriceChild> GazzaK, does indeedy :)

<PriceChild> GazzaK, eek where?

<GazzaK> OMG http://www.lights2go.co.uk/lights/Odyssey%20hi-res_1.jpg < PriceChild

<GazzaK> right, since PriceChild has rebooted okay, I will too :p

<PriceChild> GazzaK, no i meant where are all these squid? :O

<GazzaK> £680 I meant

<Norf-ubu> unless anyone has come across a better alternative to VNC ?

<Norf-ubu> no? VNC it is then

<popey> freenx

<popey> x forwarding over ssh tunnel

<popey> what do you want to achieve?

<Norf-ubu> remote access - similiar to RDP

<popey> of what

<popey> over what connection

<popey> to achive what?

<Norf-ubu> from windows to linux over local link

<Norf-ubu> so i can remove a monitor off my desktop

<popey> so its a permanent thing?

<Norf-ubu> its getting cluttered

<Norf-ubu> yes

<popey> why not get a monitor switch box?

<popey> keyboard/mouse/video switch

<Norf-ubu> thats an option, KVM switcj

<popey> i have a natty one

<popey> one mo, getting url

<Norf-ubu> cheers - i've only ever had experience with an old belkin one back in the day

<popey> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1115416907915&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

<popey> one of them, dead easy

<Norf-ubu> ty

<popey> just press scroll lock twice to switch screens

<DaveMorris> mine switches on ctrl as well

<Norf-ubu> nice

<DaveMorris> quite anyoying (not the same make though)

<popey> cables built in too, so very easy

<popey> not usb tho

<popey> (if that matters)

<Norf-ubu> not really - keyboards and mice are pennies now-a-days

<popey> yeah

<popey> i have a 4-port belkin jobbie in the data centre (garage) but that is likely to go on ebay soon

<DaveMorris> you can also daisy chain them together :)

<Norf-ubu> i dont think i'll utilise 4 ports :P

<treb0r> you use your garage as a data centre? cool. I wish I had a garage :)

<popey> for a while I had 13 machines on

<DaveMorris> my machines are in my bed room :/

<popey> yeah, cable broadband comes into the den in the house, into the cable modem, then ethernet down to the garage where the firewall and servers are, then back to the hosue for the desktops/laptos/wifi :)

<Norf-ubu> much latency ?

<popey> latency!? over LAN!?

<popey> of course not

<Norf-ubu> :P

<DaveMorris> you could put the cable modem in the garage as well

<popey> i knew someone would suggest an improvment

<popey> i dont want the cm in the garage

<DaveMorris> lol

<Norf-ubu> as they do.....

<popey> watching the lights is a good way to see if the connection is up

<DaveMorris> ahh

<Norf-ubu> remote web cam <grins>

<Norf-ubu> i'll hush now :P

<popey> i have webcam already

* popey ssh's in to turn it on

<DaveMorris> I thought of that, but held back

<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/webcam.jpg

<popey> hmm, bit of a mess in there

<DaveMorris> as tidy as my room then

<AndrewB> Any scots kicking about?

<gord> I dunno what it is about keeping lines to a max of 80 char's but it sure does make everything nice

<popey> AndrewB: neuro_ is

<AndrewB> Yep got him

<Norf-ubu> "got him" ? you make it sound like the spanish inquisition

<Norf-ubu> <<< awaits "and nobody expects the spanish inquisition!

<chaddy> no one expects the dead parrot

<chaddy> ;-

<chaddy> )

<Norf-ubu> :P

<neuro_> <AndrewB> Any scots kicking about?

<neuro_> pour quoi

<chaddy> he's making moves to get a meeting together this side of the border, neuro_

<neuro_> oo-er

* Seeker` is 1/4 scottish, or something like that anyway

<chaddy> swap you for my ¼ English, Seeker`

<AndrewB> neuro_: you be able to attend? Provisional date is 2nd April [Monday]. Just an informal in the CH; chat, booze and direction of other meets.

<neuro_> poss

<Seeker`> chaddy: Why?

<jayteeuk> BRB, reboot required.

<chaddy> well ¾ Scottish makes me dodgy up here

<AndrewB> neuro_: too far ahead or ?

<chaddy> ormiret: you any interest in this meet AndrewB is talking about?

<neuro_> AndrewB: i've no idea what i'm doing next week never mind next month :)

<neuro_> poss means probably but something else more important might get in the road

<AndrewB> neuro_: I will get in touch 2hours before then ;)

<chaddy> you'll need his phone number, then, AndrewB; he has a way of falling asleep on the couch

<neuro_> lies

<AndrewB> chaddy: is ormiret also a scot?

<AndrewB> [not saying only scots can attend]

<chaddy> aye, he's Robert McWilliam

<chaddy> leading light of aberlug

<AndrewB> Ok.

<neuro_> why don't you say "is ormiret in scotland" rather than "a scot", you'll lead yourself into less bother that way :0

<neuro_> no clarification of "oh, no, if you're a sassenach, you're still welcome"

<AndrewB> neuro_: sore wrist, can't type heh

<neuro_> "after all, we need someone to poke sticks at"

<neuro_> bah, no excuse

<chaddy> has Xalior given in to the ubuntu tide, yet, neuro_?

* AndrewB jsut realised he doesn't know when he gets paid.. bets it is after the meet!

<neuro_> chaddy: aberlug is aberystwyth

<neuro_> ... also :)

<neuro_> wow, aberdeen lug still has meetings

<neuro_> chaddy: i shouted what you said upstairs to xalior, he just laughed :)

* loudmouthman is Scottish , born in Elgin does that count AndrewB ? or do I still need to have been living there then ?

<AndrewB> loudmouthman: if you want to travel for the meet you are welcome so :)

<loudmouthman> Well Ive got a trip to Lousiemouth planned in the near Future but I doubt mambaLug will be meeting any time soon.

<neuro_> LOSSIEMOUTH, ya sassenach :)

<loudmouthman> neuro_ hardly mate <grin> ;-) theres little of civilisation left after you go further north of Elgin !

<neuro_> aye, just water and the islands :)

<loudmouthman> We had a scottish murder mystery dinner do here the other night I got asked to read a bit as a suspect. I did this in my best speaking with my parents tone of voice. no one followed me ! oh well! to brogue.

<chaddy> heh, neuro_

<gord> I had to do a murder mystery thing, It was this home kit type thing that my brother thought would be fun for the family to do at christmas, I had to play a crazy guy who had a puppet that was alive or something, far too embarising

<jayteeuk> Back, but back out again -- nursery time.

<AndrewB> hey Mez

<Mez> hi - just going bed AndrewB

<AndrewB> Ok. nn

<GazzaK> Mez,

<Mez> GazzaK, yes?

<GazzaK> have a nice sleep okay :p

* Mez slaps GazzaK

<GazzaK> hehe

<Mez> you're lucky lethargy isnt in here

<Mez> or that woulda sent me a txt message

<GazzaK> why not

<Mez> it texts me on highlights :D

<AndrewB> Mez: do you get a text when highlighted?

<Mez> (when I'm away)

<AndrewB> wow

<AndrewB> How does it do that?

<GazzaK> Mez, really

<Mez> email to text :D

<GazzaK> Mez, really!!!

* GazzaK hides

<AndrewB> Mez: does that cost?

<Mez> AndrewB, nah, you can normally set it up with your Provider

<GazzaK> can we nick spam you like in the middle of the night your time?

<Mez> I know o2 do it free (or used to!)

* AndrewB is on vodafone

* GazzaK looks for lethargy

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Matthew Garrett <http://mjg59.livejournal.com/72632.html>

<Mez> GazzaK, It'll ignore you if you nick spam

<Mez> goodnight

<Mez> .away leave me alone I'm sleeping

<AndrewB> So.. you have an irssi script that emails you on highlight? then that then texts?

<AndrewB> eek

<AndrewB> oh well

* AndrewB goes looks into it.

<GazzaK> hehe

<Mez> AndrewB, no, a custom python script on my bot that emails me when highlighted

<GazzaK> I thinks M ez is a little annoyed, maybe he feels he should not have said that!

<gord> my computer beeps on highlight, thats enough thanks, its annoying enough already

<AndrewB> damn.. /me goes learns python ;)

<GazzaK> on your bot? what a weird place to keep it

<Mez> GazzaK, no thats my standard thing

<Mez> GazzaK, nope not really, caus eif i'm offline then it texts me highlights :D

<Mez> how many times i've had a text with the !seen Mez :P

<gord> !seen Mez

<Mez> GOODNIGHT

<ubot3> Factoid seen mez not found

<GazzaK> I could write rude things too

<Mez> @seen Mez

<Mez> %een Mez

<Mez> %seen Mez

<GazzaK> like Mez, nekid on the dining room floor

* Mez adds a global ignore on GazzaK

<GazzaK> oh, hehe

<loudmouthman> I dont think im that worried about presence that id make that much effort. besides other than convenience it just gives an "impression" that your around possibly frustrating as anything if your not clueful about irc.

<AndrewB> hehe GazzaK

<GazzaK> a global ignore, I feel honoured

<loudmouthman> did somone say something ?

* GazzaK kicks loudmouthman

<AndrewB> loudmouthman: then if somebody is discussing a project you are part of you know etc..

<GazzaK> /cs k loudmouthman

* AndrewB doesn't think chanserv can kick ;)

<GazzaK> it can remove

<GazzaK> same goal

<loudmouthman> AndrewB yeah I know . its just I was never that worried or ( and everyone is not to get thsi the wrong way ) conceited.

<GazzaK> conceited, loudmouthman, yeah

<loudmouthman> heheh <grin> well its all about expectations I guess

<loudmouthman> note to gazzak . my kicks do work but im just not that operator type id rather be the better man . <mwah>

<GazzaK> my expectations, of you, are of a low enough standard for me not to be worried :p

<loudmouthman> Cool.

<GazzaK> hehe

* GazzaK snuggles up to loudmouthman

* popey farts

<loudmouthman> its like one of thos invader zim moments, with everyone just staring at Gazzak and I and the sound of crickets in the back ground!

<GazzaK> I like people staring at me

<gord> kinky

<GazzaK> you know what happened this saturday

<GazzaK> I was told on Saturday that I'm going to hell, by some preacher in the town centre

<GazzaK> I saw him and made my partner hold my hand, we sat right in-front of him on the wall, hand in hand with our legs swinging

<GazzaK> the bible muncher was "not impressed"

<popey> which came first?

<loudmouthman> hahah its funnier because in other cultures men holding hands is just normal anyway and infers nothing on your sexuality.

<popey> him calling you a sinner or you sitting down goading him?

<popey> I learned something interesting at lunchtime today

<popey> was listening to some radio 4 think - you and yours or something, and they were talking about scouts

<popey> someone wrote in to say that because she was athiest they wouldn't let her child in or something

<deiaccord> yea scouts were a pretty Christian orginasition...some branches take it more seriously than others though

<popey> the guy from scouts said that yes, they believe in god (of some kind) and that if you dont, you're not allowed in

<gord> so if you went in and said you beleved that there was a god and that it is a banana (that you are holding in your hand) you would be let in?

<loudmouthman> right off to earn some more monies

<popey> dunno gord

<popey> just annoys me

<popey> my son will want to go to scouts (as his mum will want him to I suspect) when he is older

<popey> and that leaves *me* with wrestling with this religious bullshit

<gord> meh, there prerogative, start a new scouts thats more inclusive (and not lame)

<popey> fucking bastards

<popey> !ohmy

<ubot3> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.

<GazzaK> sorry, was afk then. popey - he called homosexuals Sinners first, just as we were walking past, not touching, so we stopped and sat down

<gord> ohmy isn't an excuse for that kind of language :P

<loudmouthman> !tolerance

<ubot3> Factoid tolerance not found

<popey> they are fine with muslims, catholics in fact any loony deity bible-bashing loony

<loudmouthman> clearly <grin>

<popey> meh

<PriceChild> I loved the scouts :)

<popey> but not this of us who choose to disbelieve

<Seeker`> popey: You aren't religious?

<popey> vheremently anti-organised-religion Seeker`

<GazzaK> I loved scouts too

<Seeker`> popey: Agnostic?

<gord> I wasn't allowed to goto scouts :(

<popey> Seeker`: why the label?

<deiaccord> lol, I'm Christian and went to scouts twice...

<Seeker`> popey: A roundabout way of asking what you believe in

<popey> nothing

<GazzaK> popey, I'd not have bothered the bible basher, had he not started on homo's first

<popey> hehe GazzaK

<popey> i like that you call "them" homos too :)

<deiaccord> blayed battle of the giants vs someone 8 years older than me 1st time and played flour bombs next week

<GazzaK> should I have called them "faggots" or "nancy-boys" then/

<popey> heh

<popey> guess it's like black guys being "allowed" to use the N word

<GazzaK> I was in cubs, then scouts, it was fantastic, all this camping and stuff

<popey> yeah, i can imagine

<GazzaK> I learnt a lot from my time in scouts

<popey> i am sure he would love it

<GazzaK> seriously, I did.

<popey> my nephews go

<schwuk> Ah, a topic I can speak with authority on!

* schwuk is a Scout Leader

<GazzaK> oi, i'm trying to be seriousish

<popey> :)

<deiaccord> cubs were good, enjoyed that...esp the camping

<popey> GazzaK: i wasnt suggesting you werent

<GazzaK> yes you were

<popey> er

<popey> dont tell me what I am thinking

<popey> you said you loved it, i said "I can imagine"

<GazzaK> :p

<popey> "I can imagine how someone might love scouts"

<deiaccord> so what are you going to do with your son popey?

<popey> i have time to think

<popey> he is 6 months old :)

<deiaccord> lol

<deiaccord> plenty of time

<popey> my daughter is 3

<deiaccord> your 1st or do you have others?

<GazzaK> do they insist it has to be christian, or will "believe in a god" do?

<popey> the battle we had a while ago was for christning

<GazzaK> ie like the masons?

<popey> believe in god GazzaK

<popey> thats what their leader dude on the radio said at lunchtime today

<Seeker`> popey: Is your wife religious?

<GazzaK> do they ask what kind of god?

<popey> completely disregarded the persons comments

<deiaccord> Should be sufficeient popey

<popey> Seeker`: allegedly

<popey> deiaccord: I dont

<popey> I dont want them christened

<Seeker`> does she want your son to be religious?

<popey> this caused arguments

<popey> she will probably want him christened

<schwuk> GazzaK: it's down to the individual leader, but generally provided they believe in a personal god, that is fine.

<popey> as she did with sophie

<GazzaK> schwuk, thats how I was okay, as I believe in the "stargate" or jedi :p

<popey> haha

<popey> flying spaghetti monster

<deiaccord> Christiening is a catholic thing the anglicans addopted. Most free churches (loike mine) don't do christenings. It's not scriptural (though the Catholics disagree of course)

* Seeker` is supposedly Catholic

<GazzaK> yeah, something like that, but its still "a believe in a god" type thing, so thats fine

<schwuk> Agnostics can get by, provided they are not uncomfortable with swearing to do their duty to god, but you have to question the integrity of someone who is willing to swear to something they oppose (i.e. atheist)

<GazzaK> well yeah

<popey> exactly

<GazzaK> but if it is the only way to "be in the gang" then fine

<popey> which puts an athiest in a tricky spot

<popey> wanting the best for their kids - just like the religious people do - but unable to reconcile the issues associated with membership :(

<gord> an athiest could legitimately claim to have a faith, a faith in science and logic if you will

<DaveMorris> /etc/hosts.deny to disable everything isn't it ALL : ?

<deiaccord> I think an athiest requires MORE faith than a 'believer'. But and atheist can't claim to have a belief in 'god'

<GazzaK> I still think the jedi is the path to follow

<deiaccord> And it's officialyl recognised now too, or was that sith? :)

<schwuk> A fundamental part of Scouting is the law and promise - without those it's a just another youth organisation. It may seem wrong to have them, but they are aprt of what makes Scouting

<DaveMorris> got it

<schwuk> So unless you can play by the Scouts rules (i.e. making the promise), you shouldn't expect to be able to join

<GazzaK> deiaccord, it's not, sadly

<popey> schwuk: I can stand in court, be a jourer without putting my hand on a bible

<popey> the scouts are the anomoly here

<schwuk> popey: Scouts is a *voluntary* organisation - they can make any rule they like.

<Seeker`> popey: Do you not want your children to be exposed to religion at all?

<deiaccord> GaZZaK: I'm sure it got recognised following the last census

<GazzaK> I thought it was laughed out

<popey> Seeker`: not until they are old enough to learn and figure out for themselves

<GazzaK> I think the kids should always have the choice, and it has to be their choice

<schwuk> If it's only the great outdoors bit of Scouting you're interested, then you should look into stuff like Forest Schools and the woodland folk

<deiaccord> I though it was, but more than 10,000 people put sith as their religion so though it had to be allowed

<GazzaK> same as being a vegetarian

<popey> schwuk: its not jsut the outsidey stuff

<popey> there are values that the kids learn arent there?

<popey> You know better than I do there :)

<popey> those values include morals which should not be tied to one deity

<GazzaK> how to tie up the annoying school bully was an important value I learnt

<deiaccord> rofl

<popey> the big issue here is that they are discriminating *against* non-believers

<GazzaK> yeah, sadly

<popey> they will let anyone else in, muslim, buddist, whayever, but exclude *only* the non-believer

<schwuk> You're 100% correct - Scouting is about citizenship (a much abused word. the religion is small part of that, but it is there.

<popey> I am all for community and citizenship - why else would I be active in free software if i wasnt

<popey> and I want my kids to pick up these good values too

<popey> but theres baggage along with it that they dont need

<GazzaK> popey, it'd be nice to see that 'normals' can be discriminated against too

<popey> well, they dont need initially

<popey> they can choose to take the baggage later

<popey> sadly yes GazzaK :(

<GazzaK> I think we should all pick on the ginger kids

<popey> yeah, they smell of spam

<schwuk> popey: that depends on the association.

<deiaccord> I never found the religious overtones over the top myself....but then I WAS coming from a christian background so that may not be any consolation

<GazzaK> and are right dodgy

<Seeker`> popey: How old do you think before they are old enough to figure it out for themselves?

<deiaccord> GaZZaK: both my 2 boys are ginger!

<popey> Seeker`: no idea

<GazzaK> I never realise the scouts were religious (when I was in the scouts)

<GazzaK> deiaccord, what did you do in a former life?

<popey> Seeker`: i will find out when they start asking questions

<popey> she is already becoming aware of death

<Seeker`> popey: Fair enough

<schwuk> The Scouting Association (SA) which is what most people refer to when they talk about Scouts is either already letting any religion in, or will do soon.

<popey> i dont have a religion though, thats my point

<schwuk> My association (Baden-Powell Scouts) is Christian denominations onyl

<deiaccord> lol. Both my wife and I have very feint red highlights and family members with red hair

<gord> I would guess that these days scouts arn't that religious GazzaK, but that the scout person in question that caused all the kerfuffle was very religious

<GazzaK> I should so do more with a youth club, it's been a few years since I ran the IT club at Dovercourt, as a youth service volunteer

<schwuk> GazzaK: tread very carefully

<popey> its certainly an interesting debate :)

<popey> why schwuk ?

<Seeker`> my facial hair goes ginger when it gets longer, as does my fringe in summer

<deiaccord> gord: That seems pretty accurate I'd think

<schwuk> popey: his comments re: ginger hair

<popey> ahhh :)

<popey> I suspect he is joking

<GazzaK> schwuk, It was fun being out and running the IT club last time

<schwuk> Seeker`: I have the same problem re. ginger beard

<deiaccord> thats the way I took it :)

<GazzaK> schwuk, I am joking

<popey> showing the ridiculousness of social exclusion based on uncontrollable factors

<GazzaK> schwuk, shave

<popey> such as gender

<popey> and belief system

<deiaccord> Thankfully *I* don't have red hair so I don't have a temper :p

<popey> and hair :)

<schwuk> GazzaK: unneccessary joke that isn't funny

* Seeker` needs to grow his goatee again, as he has no ID at the moment

<deiaccord> popey: So do you think boys ought to be allowed to wear skirts in school? :O

<GazzaK> using ginger hair is a great way I have used in the past to show how unfounded peoples discrimination is

<deiaccord> it's gender discriminatin too!

<popey> deiaccord: if they want to

<Seeker`> its unfair that at my school we had to wear ties and blazers, yet the girls didn;t

<schwuk> GazzaK: why the comment about former life then? That wasn't pointing anything out

<deiaccord> gets some suprising reactions from what news articles I once read on it

<popey> sets you up for life though, unfairness Seeker`

<GazzaK> schwuk, sorry for that one, was being stupid

<gord> all unfairness set me up for was yelling and screaming about it until it is fair, hence my anti-microsoft agenda ;)

<schwuk> GazzaK: OK

<deiaccord> so we'll all pock on Microsoft to restore the fairness balance? :p

<GazzaK> it's the shops too, and the manufacturers

<schwuk> Anyway, Scouts is a religious organisation (although SA has made moves to drop this in the past, and will do again)

<gord> well, we all yell and scream at the people in power until the computing world is fair deiaccord ;)

<GazzaK> tescos sell different makes, including their own, of baked beans, so why does PC world only sell Apples and Microsoft OS's

<gord> unfair!

<GazzaK> mind you, I do love my mac mini

<GazzaK> and osx

<popey> haha

<popey> loony :)

<GazzaK> yeah, maybe, but we all knew that before I bought it

<gord> macs are fine, they don't go in for so many unfair practises, not exactly supporting free software but hey

<GazzaK> yeah, but it's new to me, never had a mac before, so it's all woooo still

<gord> with beryl there ain't much reason to use a mac though ;)

<GazzaK> there is too

<GazzaK> iweb \o/

<deiaccord> apple arnt anti-competitive like microsoft, thats what matters

<GazzaK> and front row, woooo

<GazzaK> I have all three main OS's at home, a little bit of geek in me wants vista too

<deiaccord> microsoft will screw anyone, apple just want you to buy they're product because itss good, and are happy for you to think otherwise

<GazzaK> that makes me sad

<Seeker`> GazzaK: You dont want vista

<GazzaK> should I feel bad for wanting to buy Vista?

<gord> yes, yes you should

<popey> !

<GazzaK> I do though, just so I can join the big kids in slating it

<Seeker`> GazzaK: And these aren't the droids you are looknig for

<GazzaK> how can I say "it's crap" without trying it eh

<GazzaK> so I need it, to diss it

<GazzaK> so send me a copy !!!111

<gord> I have used vista, and yes I can say 'its crap', its a bit 'oooh' when you first boot it up but then after about 30 seconds annoying sets in

<GazzaK> we have a guy here, got sold a lappy with 512Mb ram, and vista, he said it runs very very slow, and also the "are you sure" repeated questions are killing him

<popey> i have tried it GazzaK

<popey> its crap

<GazzaK> see, thats what I mean, I need to try it myself

<GazzaK> :p

<popey> spend the money on your lounge :)

<gord> just use someone elses computer who is silly enough to buy it :P

<deiaccord> I could *borrow* a work copy if I really wanted too but I don't even see it being worth the bother. Why I'm running ubuntu instead

<GazzaK> popey, I did not say I wanted to buy it with my own money!

<popey> heh

* GazzaK sends email to boss re: keeping up to date with industry innovation

* popey sends GazzaK a ZX81

<GazzaK> hey

<GazzaK> whats this piece of history for

* GazzaK props open door with old POS

<popey> heathen

* popey tuts

<popey> "youth of today"

<gord> burn the GazzaK!

<popey> hahahahahahahahaha

<GazzaK> hey I had a BBC micro

<popey> one of my collegues has received a mail from a customer

<deiaccord> 10 print " hello world"

<deiaccord> 20 goto 10

<popey> it has an attchment

<popey> which was created under vista

<popey> nobody here can open it

<GazzaK> hahahaaaaaa

<Seeker`> hah

<popey> there, that's why you should shun these upgrades

<popey> they *force* people to upgrade

<GazzaK> send it back, "please send again in a format which the rest of the world can read"

<popey> there is only so many times you can say that

<popey> before customers start thinking you're tight or behind the times

<deiaccord> I work in tech support and we had that alot when we started rolling out updated MS office apps

<popey> its a whole "keep up with the joneses thing"

<gord> the forced upgrading is sure forcing people to upgrade, upgrade to open office -_-

<GazzaK> popey, we use notes, outlook sends in html, we cannot read that

<popey> \o/ home time

<popey> ttfn

<GazzaK> home time, 2:20pm, arghhhh

<GazzaK> you damn contractors, makes me so jealous

* GazzaK thinks about "working from home"

<gord> starting at 6am is nothing to be jealous about GazzaK ;)

<GazzaK> I start at 8am though and he did not say morning till later than that

<deiaccord> agree on the 6am starts, done tht for last 4 days :S

<GazzaK> damnit, I just realised I am a tart - I am sitting here shining my nails.....

<GazzaK> I ought to go break something

<gord> I have this thing that makes all my blood all weird and turns my nails kinda red, people are always asking if I put that girl stuff on them :(

<deiaccord> need to stop picking your nose ;)

<GazzaK> gord, I messed up my nail recently in a rather ugly incident involving blood, a metal paint stripper and my thumb, so I bought one of those foam emery board things, to tidy it up, and it has got obsessive now

<deiaccord> GazzaK: sounds like my last manger, always filing his nails

<GazzaK> did you know you can sand them, and then polish them so they shine like you have nail varnish on!!!

<GazzaK> I suffer from OCD, so giving me something like this is dangerous

<deiaccord> OCD?

<Seeker`> obsessive compulsive disorder

<GazzaK> like me and a pencil + pencil sharpner, the pencil doesn't last too long, but it always sharp

* Seeker` thinks he may have OCD

<Seeker`> I always have to check everything several times before I leave the house

<GazzaK> Seeker`, how often do you clean something, ie the kitchen floor?

<Seeker`> GazzaK: No often

<Seeker`> but I check the front and back door at least twice before I go to bed

<GazzaK> I lock the door, unlock it, check lights etc, lock it, check lock, etc

<Seeker`> and each time I will check front door, then back door, then front door again

<GazzaK> I have to force myself to only check things twice, otherwise it gets a bit annoying

<Seeker`> and I check all the power sockets in my room several times

<GazzaK> I have no back door, problem solved!!!

<Seeker`> I have been 5 mins down the road, and walked back to check I turned something off

<GazzaK> it's a bit annoying isn't it Seeker`

<Seeker`> a little, yes

* Seeker` wonders if he should see someone about it, or just try to ignore it

<GazzaK> I just live with it

<gord> I have anti-ocd, I realise that something might not be right, I think 'i want to check if that is right' but then think 'ahh screw it'

<deiaccord> why do you think you started being like that?

<deiaccord> lol gord

<Seeker`> deiaccord: I've done it for as long as I remember#

<GazzaK> deiaccord, fear of something being wrong

<GazzaK> maybe

<GazzaK> and then it is just a habit

<GazzaK> gord, sounds like Tom

<chaddy> Mrs Bbaws has OCD, she tidies a lot

<chaddy> but rarely cleans

<chaddy> it's odd

<Seeker`> When I'm out, if i haven't checked stuff "properly" I'll start wondering if i've left stuff unlocked

<GazzaK> the weird thing is Seeker`, I once managed to leave all the doors unlocked, and the back windows open

<Seeker`> :S

<GazzaK> have no idea how, as I normally checked them twice

<chaddy> remote central-locking is a boon, much quicker to lock the car six times with the fob than check all five doors six times manually

<GazzaK> must have been abducted

<GazzaK> chaddy, lol

<GazzaK> I love my cars central locking, I need it for my house

<chaddy> ;-)

<GazzaK> I do lock, unlock, lock again, checking lights properly, etc my car

<gord> I generally live in hope that I have left a door or window or som't open, when it comes to remembering my keys I am less than satisfactory

<GazzaK> right, next on the house list... Painting.... need to pick colours for Living room and Bedroom, and paint them both, oh and bathroom and study too, but those are less important

<GazzaK> I need to trade Tom in for a painter chap, and then ditch him for a chippy

<gord> apple green and sky bloo!

<GazzaK> gord, green and blue's are no no

<gord> blood red and super orange!

<GazzaK> light browns, canvas colours, pale warms

<GazzaK> gord, shhh

<GazzaK> you have the colour picking skillz of a kid on blue smarties

<gord> ooh, or just cover your entire wall in LCD panels and use a computer to upload graphics!

<GazzaK> gord, erm, nice idea

<gord> darn tootin

<GazzaK> someone did talk about electroluminesent (sp) paint though

<gord> bet it costs like £1500 a tub

<GazzaK> paint it on the wall, power connections - like 5v, voltage off, light pale blue, power on, dark royal blue

<GazzaK> yeah, it'll be a lot

<GazzaK> I like the idea of covering the wall in fabric, like basic canvas

<GazzaK> but Tom said that would be horrid

<gord> I agree with him

<GazzaK> I like this http://www.revivehome.com/images/hits_jan_home.JPG

<deiaccord> Time to get son from school, running late!

<jayteeuk> You guys have all the interesting conversations while I'm away. :-P

<jayteeuk> I had no idea that the Cubs/Scouts wouldn't let you in if you didn't believe in God.

<jayteeuk> If they'd bothered to ask me when I came to join, I'd have been turned away.

<chaddy> I didn't realize that, jayteeuk

<jayteeuk> Me neither until I just read my scrollback.

<chaddy> I always thought the BB's was for religious types and the Scouts didn't give a monkey's

<jayteeuk> I suppose it makes sense. "I promise to do my best to do my duty to God and to the Queen...."

<jayteeuk> You can't do your duty to someone/something you don't believe in, I suppose.

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: bah battery <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/147083.html>

<jayteeuk> I suspect I'll be in a similar situation to popey though -- although my wife is somewhat religious, I intend to let my son decide for himself.

* AndrewB is a scout leader

<AndrewB> :)

<AndrewB> You are welcomed to the Scouting Movement no matter what faith.

<jayteeuk> That was what I always thought.

<chaddy> but not if you are agnostic/atheist?

<AndrewB> chaddy: you don't need a faith at all.

<chaddy> fairly do's

<AndrewB> I suppose.. in the past.. you might have. In other countrys too. Not the UK

* chaddy was in the BB's, the scouts always looked more fun

<AndrewB> In Germany for example they are actually split up into sections by what type of faith they have.

<chaddy> a lot less marching about, for a kick off

<AndrewB> Though that is being phaised out..

<AndrewB> err

* AndrewB can't spell.

<jayteeuk> I wasn't a fully invested leader, but I used to help out with the Cubs.

* AndrewB is a cub, scout and explorer leader ;)

<AndrewB> i need to drop explorers tho..

<AndrewB> farrrrr to much work.

<jayteeuk> I don't know what it's like these days, but I found the kids I was helping out with were much less interested in the outdoors stuff like camping, tracking, orienteering than the lads I went to Cubs with.

<AndrewB> jayteeuk: our explorers are like that. when I was in explorers I was always outside!

<jayteeuk> Explorers? Is that what used to be known as Venture Scouts?

<AndrewB> Yeah

<AndrewB> introduced 4/5 years ago.

<AndrewB> 14-18 years

<jayteeuk> Shows how long I've been out of the Movement. :)

<AndrewB> You should go back, we are always looking for helpers ;) from people attending camps to help, to paperwork, to weekly leaders :D

<AndrewB> </promo>

<jayteeuk> When my son's old enough to join I'll probably consider it.

<jayteeuk> My eldest son, I should say.

<AndrewB> How old is he?

<jayteeuk> Three.

<AndrewB> 3 years then :) heh

* AndrewB has been part of the movement for..

<AndrewB> 13years

<AndrewB> :)

<jayteeuk> I joined aged 8 I think, and moved up to Sea Scouts, then switched troops when we moved house, then helped found a new Venture Scout Unit.

* AndrewB hasn't had his warent for less than 3 months tho

<jayteeuk> I left when I went to Uni I think... when I was almost 19.

<jayteeuk> I agree with popey's comments about teaching good morals and stuff.

<jayteeuk> That was certainly a focus of the groups I was involved with.

<AndrewB> it is real hard sometimes ;) personally tho.. I like the little hell raiser kids. They are more of a challenge to help with.

<jayteeuk> You could argue that they're the ones who need the Movement more.

<AndrewB> yes

<AndrewB> Nomrally if you do something like climbing or swimming they are in a new world tho.. cause most don't have great backgrounds..

<jayteeuk> I used to love that stuff. Rock climbing and abseiling was brilliant. Being in Sea Scouts I got to go canoeing and swimming a lot too.

<jayteeuk> I'd never have got near any of that stuff if it hadn't been for the Scouts.

<AndrewB> I like kyacking [spelling] one of my fav things to do, along with climbing. I have been recently looking into becoming an instuctor for both..

<gord> kayak, do none of you have spellcheck in your irc clients?

<AndrewB> irssi don't have one ;)

<jayteeuk> I used to really enjoy camping and hiking too. Building bivvies to sleep in. Then seeing if you got wet when it rained. :)

<AndrewB> heh

<jayteeuk> The Chief Scout's Challenge rocked.

<jayteeuk> Three days hiking, camping overnight. All planned ourselves -- route, stop-offs, timing -- we learned a lot. :)

<AndrewB> Last summer 3 other guys[same aged] and myself walked 100miles[ok so 98] across germany, that was something else. We only could spend 5 euro per day on food accomodation etc! had aload of challenges to complete too.

<jayteeuk> When the boys get a bit older I'd like to think we'll start hiking, camping and bike riding again.

<chaddy> gord: gaim has one

<chaddy> ahh, /me sees

<gord> gaim is horrible for irc... well horrible for everything really

<AndrewB> gaim has one when compiled with aspell ;)

<deiaccord> what irc clients would you suggest then? (I need a better one than gaim)

<AndrewB> deiaccord: irssi, weechat, xchat

<AndrewB> in that order

<AndrewB> ;)

<gord> I use xchat

<gord> irssi is either for people that have used it for ages and can't be bothered changing or people that have to use it for various reasons. there is chatzilla for people who like the shiny and xchat for us sensible types

<AndrewB> I use irssi, I like being able to use it from anywhere, eg ssh to my server and re-attach the screen session. :)

<deiaccord> Just installing irssi to try it

<AndrewB> gord: or cause it has a massive plugins dir, that has so many useful features?

<deiaccord> I will most likly need comman line functionality anyway

<deiaccord> similar reasons to AndrewB

* AndrewB would say weechat is kinda like an irssi - xchat half breet.

<AndrewB> breed even

<AndrewB> deiaccord: are you familure with 'screen'

<gord> you can get plugins for any irc client, hardly a reason to use som't. plugins are nasty though

<deiaccord> AndrewB: Yea, though beren some while before I used it before. I used to have a paid for unix host I SSH'd to from work

<AndrewB> ahh

<AndrewB> There are many irssi plugins that work with that.

<deiaccord> so know what it does but forgotten all the commands for it !

* AndrewB doesn't really use that many bar attaching and detaching.

* jayteeuk uses Psi and ejabberd's mod_irc.

* AndrewB should get ready for work..

* AndrewB really thinks openmoko looks cool :)

<AndrewB> http://digg.com/gadgets/OpenMoko_Phase_0_shipped

<X3N> my brother is developing for that

<AndrewB> really, that is real cool. :D

<AndrewB> has he commented much on it?

<X3N> he's doing the dialer software at the moment

* Seeker` wants to do some developmetn for that - i'm trying to convince work to get one when they get to phase 1

<X3N> it's a bit of novalty at the moment and not nessasrily something that will be successfull

<gord> I just want my mobile phone to be able to phone people, I don't need any silly gadgets

<X3N> it might be useful for people with specific needs which would normally not be able to be implimented because of a normal phones closed source-ness

<AndrewB> X3N: is your bro in the ubuntu - loco group?

<X3N> nope

<AndrewB> eeek chaddy_

*** chaddy_ is now known as chaddy

* AndrewB waves to TH chaddy

<chaddy> heh, /me waves back

<chaddy> BT throttling me more than I was willing to tolerate

<gord> brr, its gotten cold

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Andrew Barber: Pluto? UK LoCo team! <http://www.libervis.com/blogs/23/AndrewB/pluto_uk_loco_team>

<X3N> hey jono

<jono> hey

<gord> *tips cap*

<X3N> I wonder what's happened to GazzaK

<X3N> also i wonder how many people from ubuntu-uk will be going to guadec / lugradio

<gord> got eaten by a brontosaurus

<AndrewB> X3N: lug radio here

<AndrewB> :)

<X3N> should organise a meet up there too

<AndrewB> I think there is talk :)

<brush01uk> Greetings Everyone, hope you have had a good day ?

<AndrewB> brush01uk: so so.. you?

<brush01uk> good, ok Thankyou

<AndrewB> cyall

<AndrewB> [work] groaaaan

<GazzaK> X3N, I'm here I'm Queer and I'm going shopping

* AndrewB wonders what that has to do with work

<AndrewB> :p

<GazzaK> I got to go geek shopping on works time the other day - it was fab

<deiaccord> :)

<deiaccord> what'd u get?

<GazzaK> leaving pressies for a fellow geek

<GazzaK> £80 worth \o/

<deiaccord> hehe nice. What did you get him?

<GazzaK> erm, a weather station thingy, since he is going to Oz, a picture frame (with a embarrassing picture of him at work), a travel kit for his lapdog, a USB memory key

<jayteeuk> An LCD display hooked up to a photo gallery device, pre-installed with photos of GazzaK. ;)

<deiaccord> nice leaving gifts, sounds like hew got a decent collection

<GazzaK> yeah, he was well happy

<GazzaK> jayteeuk, hehe

<Seeker`> popey: PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

* jayteeuk grumbles more about recruitment agencies.

<jayteeuk> They type in "vignette cv" on yahoo.co.uk and come up with my CV then pester me on the phone all day.

<deiaccord> I wasted my time last week going to an interview the agency did not tell me was 6 month contract :S

<jayteeuk> They annoy me.

<jayteeuk> They know nothing about what I do or have done, yet they always tell me they have an excellent position that I'll be interested in.

<deiaccord> sounds like when people try to sell me an 'upgrade' to my current phone :)

<deiaccord> Sometimes you have to do the hard work yourself

* Seeker` has had calls telling him to switch to orange / O2. My response is usually something like "umm...I work for Vodafone..."

<deiaccord> lol

<deiaccord> THinking of networks I need to start considering where I can get the cheepest data only tarrif (pref unlimited)

<jayteeuk> I've been told on several occasions I could see significant savings be switching to other operators... until I tell them I don't pay the bill, my employer does.

<deiaccord> I just let them speak to my answerphone most of the time....it seems to sort them out

<deiaccord> And my answerphone message it just "This is an answerphone..."

<jayteeuk> Caller ID is a brilliant invention.

<deiaccord> yea, though bt sent us an automatic text that they called to try an deliver at 5am this morning :(

<deiaccord> on my home phone that is

<jayteeuk> If I don't recognise the number or it's witheld, I don't answer. My message says "If your call is important, please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as possible."

<deiaccord> Anyone i want to speak to already know to leave a message

<jayteeuk> If they don't leave a message, it can't be that important. Friends and family are aware of the policy, so they know to leave a message.

<deiaccord> yea same

<deiaccord> do get a few persistant call centres though :)

<popey> Seeker`: poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong

<GazzaK> well thats not nice

<GazzaK> saying Seeker` stinks

<jayteeuk> GazzaK: Maybe not nice, but true. ;)

<Seeker`> popey: Can you do another quiz later? When I'm not at work and can concentrate on it?

<popey> haha

<popey> sure

<GazzaK> you won the last one though

<popey> lets wait until we get a critical mass in here

<Seeker`> GazzaK: And?

<GazzaK> how much more do you want to win by?

<Seeker`> lots :P

<GazzaK> my goodness, nearly as obsessive as tsmithe

<popey> ah hang on

<popey> my questions are at work

<popey> i am at home

<Seeker`> nooooooooooooooooooooo!

<GazzaK> oops

<GazzaK> dial in?

<popey> well

<popey> some questions are here

<popey> some are online :)

<popey> but not the answers :)

<GazzaK> Q1 - what time can I get away with leaving the office at tonight

<Seeker`> will have to wait till tomorrwo then

<ormiret> popey: I assumed you just knew all that stuff :)

<Seeker`> not all of them were that har

<Seeker`> d

<Seeker`> they were definately guessable

<popey> i have about 300 to choose from

<popey> didnt want to make it too hard

<Seeker`> cool

<popey> i need to go and rebuild my firewall

<popey> bbiab

* Seeker` should get his pub quiz book out

<Seeker`> but i dont know many of the answers

<GazzaK> hey jamesbrose

<jamesbrose> afternoonie GazzaK

<jamesbrose> hmm

<jamesbrose> wouldn't mind a game of ET now :P

<Seeker`> et/

<Seeker`> ?

<jamesbrose> enemy territory

<GazzaK> it won't run too well on me lapdog

<Seeker`> hometime:D

<jamesbrose> For some reason it won't go full screen

<jamesbrose> on a 1600*1200 screen :(

<GazzaK> PriceChild, hehe

<PriceChild> ?

<GazzaK> re part message, hoping I didn't offend anyone

<jamesbrose> hmm, my friend has killed his bios, it crashed while he was updating it. Is there much he can do?

<deiaccord> possibly if he had a dual bios motherboard

<jamesbrose> I don't think he will..

<deiaccord> probaly not :(

<deiaccord> any idea how far it gets?

<jamesbrose> hes booted from the asus recovery thing, but his keyboard won't work..

<deiaccord> usb or ps2?

<jamesbrose> As soon as it boots he gets some error

<jamesbrose> ah i'll ask

<jamesbrose> oh he's gone offline

<jamesbrose> He was trying to install suse, but it wouldn't recognize his sata drives, so he thought he should update. Windows didn't like it and crashed..

<deiaccord> windows didn't like his new bios?

<jamesbrose> nope

<deiaccord> hmm, need a few more details but it sounds like it might not be the bios itself that is corrupt, just bad settings. At least i hope for his sake thats the problem

<jamesbrose> it was a really uber pc aswell..

<deiaccord> worst case he'll need a new motherboard

<LoudMouthMan> ping jono if hes got a minute ?

<jono> LoudMouthMan: pong

<LoudMouthMan> ahh cool got a mo mate ?

<jono> sure

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Phil Bull: Feisty feature of the day #5 - Better session management? <http://philbull.livejournal.com/26623.html>

<bluebaron> i've encounter my 1st problem i cant edit the original smb-config file. it says i'm not the owner so cant change it

<X3N> use sudo

<bluebaron> rite, done that, got 2 copies in the same directory, cant save changes to either o them

<X3N> how are you trying to edit them

<bluebaron> right click open with

<X3N> and what are you selecting with the open with

<bluebaron> text editor is the only option in the list unless i choose "other application"

<bluebaron> wot should i be opening it with?

<X3N> you need to use gksudo gedit

<bluebaron> I am a complete nubie, do i put that into a terminal window?

<X3N> in the "open with" dialog you need to put a custom command in that says "gksudo gedit"

<bluebaron> thanks m8, i'm really really new to this

<X3N> no problem, that's what we're here for

<bluebaron> i'll be back if i mess up again

<X3N> okie dokie

<bluebaron> idont get itthe directoryissharedusing"smb"whenigothruwindowsnetworkplaces itseesthe ubuntmachinebut wontletmelogin

<bluebaron> sorry about the lack of spaces in my typing , my keyboards playing up

<Stevie> I think the people above me are having sex

<Stevie> either that or they're sleeping restlessly and agreeing with each other a lot.

<LoudMouthMan> or they are playing popeys trivia quiz and he is getting all the answers right ! which is why she keeps saying yes.

<Stevie> probberbly

<deiaccord> test

<Stevie> I love Popey's trivia quiz, im going up to see if I can join in

<LoudMouthMan> deaccord your test failed.

<LoudMouthMan> PriceChild ping for the pong for I aint got long ?

*** Nik_Doof is now known as Nik_Laptop

<LoudMouthMan> Hey thats Me !

<LoudMouthMan> Nik_Laptop , hello me .

<PriceChild> Hey LoudMouthMan

<Nik_Laptop> ?

<PriceChild> Yeah I asked ubuntugeek about it... I'll poke him again :)

<Nik_Laptop> oh yes, your name is nik i forgot :)

* LoudMouthMan name is Nik Butler his Laptop is ... guess <grin>

<PriceChild> He just made me a desktop effects forum... lets see if he can be on a roll

<Nik_Laptop> well, andrewwilliams_laptop is a little too long :)

<LoudMouthMan> so why Ni_Doof?

<LoudMouthMan> nik even ?

<Nik_Laptop> a handle i've had for many many moons :)

<LoudMouthMan> okay ... and its origins .. or are they ( like my feet ) shrouded in mystery

<Nik_Laptop> wish i could remember, its nearly 11 year ago now...

<LoudMouthMan> wow almost as Old as me <grin>

<bluebaron> i'm a nubie, im coming to the end of my tether with this networking thing. please someone help me!!

<LoudMouthMan> I found the very first ever invoice I did for a client the other day . It was 15 Jan 2000 and was to a SME who wanted NETMAX Fileserver installed on a PC. that was my very first Linux support call as a self employed guy. Then I found a ring bound presentation from Netprojects which I went to in 1998 dealing with OSS in business by Eddie Bleasdale.

<LoudMouthMan> So by next year I will have spent at least 10 years actively getting SMEs to "Use Linux" be it Suse, Debian or Ubuntu ( as a OSS progression ) . and I realise ive been playing with it since like 1995 ouch .. im OLD!

<Nik_Laptop> the slackware days, what fun

<Nik_Laptop> hundreds of tar.gz packages

<deiaccord> 1996 was my first start with linux

<LoudMouthMan> hahaha yeah .. ive got a book in my collection Volkerding or some such (id have to gointo the loft to look it up ! )

<Nik_Laptop> not sure when i first used it, probably around 96-97

<deiaccord> but i was on the same site as the hensa arcvhive ws

<LoudMouthMan> I can remember the person ( Damien Murphy ) and the company I was working at ( Palmer & Webb ) which puts it 94/95 at least.

<LoudMouthMan> rigth dinner time and SG-1 finale !

<Nik_Laptop> wha wha WHA

<Nik_Laptop> finale tonight?!

<Nik_Laptop> DAMM YOU VIRGIN MEDIA

<LoudMouthMan> hmmm and here I am with Sky+ and a DVDr .... hmmm whatever might i do ?

<bluebaron> someone must be ableto help me?

<jamesbrose> die virgin media!

<Nik_Laptop> nah i'll grab it from a dirty torrent site later

<jamesbrose> LOL.

<jamesbrose> read the conversation on here - http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Hacker

<jamesbrose> that site is awesome

<deiaccord> perhaps if you were more specific bluebaron?

<Nik_Laptop> lol excellent james

<Nik_Laptop> reminds me of several efnet chatrooms i used to be in

<jamesbrose> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu

<jamesbrose> the funniest :P

<jamesbrose> specially the bill gates ad

<bluebaron> i have a windows xp pc connected to a netgear router, my ubuntu pc is also connected to the router. i have a directory on the xp machine which is visible to ubuntu. i have a directory in ubuntu which i want to be able to see in xp.

<deiaccord> so you need to setup a samba share on ubuntu pc then?

<jamesbrose> ^ what he said

<deiaccord> rd(+i)] [2:#ubuntu-uk(+cn)] [Act: 1]

<deiaccord> [#ubuntu-uk]

<deiaccord> try ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu-Edgy#Samba_Server

<Norf-ubu> g'day

<bluebaron> i'll check that out thanks

<deiaccord> sorry, should be a _ not a - between Ubuntu and Edgy

<bluebaron> my main issue is that when i try to connect to the ubuntu machine from xp it asks for a password. i dont know which one it wants

<bluebaron> sorry forget that. i'm quitting for the day. thanks for all your help

<anto9us> pity he left, all he needs do is set a login on windows with matching username/password

<deiaccord> yea, SO much easier than it was in 96 :)

<anto9us> xp home is a bugger sometimes, doesn't support proper authentication

<popey> evening all

<deiaccord> whey popey

* popey has been busy rebuilding his firewall

<popey> and making tea

<popey> shit, 9pm and i have not eaten yet :(

<popey> !ohmy

<ubot3> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.

<popey> sorry

<deiaccord> heh, taken you a while then

<popey> well, technically it takes about 30 mins max from start to finish

<popey> but the disk crashed yesterday :(

<deiaccord> ahh

<popey> only 24 hours after installing it

<popey> and i have a slight issue in that both network cards are 3com which makes it tricky identifying one from tother :)

<popey> but, all done now

* popey loves ipcop

<popey> it is officially great

<popey> http://fact.popey.com/

<deiaccord> gogin to start putting linux in my server pc tomorrow

<popey> yay

<deiaccord> got to decide which flavour though

<jamesbrose> debian?

<deiaccord> thinking fedora for the experience....most paid hosts are fedora

<deiaccord> so having my own version here wtih gui (if needed) might be helpful

<popey> deiaccord: what server?

<deiaccord> my one or paid ones?

<popey> specifically yours

<Nik_Laptop> mmm most paid offer quite a choice now

<popey> wondered what you have, is it co-lo?

<Nik_Laptop> well, most of the bigger ones

<popey> my provider offers whatever distro you want :)

<deiaccord> will be runnign on a 1Ghz, 256mb ram (need to get some more pc133 ram for it) and 20gb disk

<deiaccord> pc i got from a friend from a local uni

<popey> is it a rack mount server you are co-locating?

<deiaccord> this is a beige box

<popey> where is it going to be hosted?

<deiaccord> wby my foot :)

<deiaccord> adsl link

<popey> heh

<popey> thought so

<deiaccord> 2will put it on dmz

<popey> i used to host at home

<popey> recently decided it was a bad idea (for me)

<tsmithe> digg effect?

<popey> so now I have a virtual (xen) server and everything is on that

<popey> yeah tsmithe that doesnt help :S

<popey> :)

<deiaccord> plannign to get virtual too

<tsmithe> :)

<daviey> deiaccord, are you going to get a domain name?

<deiaccord> in time

* tsmithe has his server in a vmware machine on his adsl line

* popey uses dyndns for his cable connection at home

<deiaccord> already got 1 domain

<daviey> tsmithe, thats nasty!

<Nik_Laptop> ouch, digged on home bandwidth

<Nik_Laptop> that must of hurt

<tsmithe> daviey, no - makes for easy backups :)

<daviey> tsmithe, makes me want to watch my hands

<daviey> s/watch/wash

<popey> Nik_Laptop: no, i wasnt dugg on home bandwidth

<popey> i was dugg on my server in telehouse

<deiaccord> hoem server is for learning

<popey> which was pretty much crushed under the weight

<deiaccord> 256k uplink is th killer

<popey> yeah

<tsmithe> luckily mine has double that :P

<popey> i had 880K upstream for a while :)

<popey> but it didnt last

* popey hugs 10Mbit/sec downstream though :)

<daviey> popey, NTL?

<Nik_Laptop> hehe

<popey> daviey: yes

<popey> i have both ntl and adsl at the moment

<popey> but dsl is going

<popey> adsl max blows goats

<daviey> thats greedy

<popey> i have proof

<Nik_Laptop> ntl round here is bad, unusable on a sat/sunday

<deiaccord> only 2mb here so far

<Nik_Laptop> i think someone has a hack modem or summat, as its faaar too slow for the number of users in the street

<Nik_Laptop> s/hack/hacked

<popey> they are trialling 20, 50 and 100Mb/s :)

<daviey> popey, i aint looking forward to 100mb

<Nik_Laptop> are you on pure NTL?

<Nik_Laptop> or a ex-c&w

<daviey> they'll start charging £ per mb! I'd rather get stuff slow and free

<popey> heh

<popey> 100mb is some way off I suspect

<treb0r> uae rocks. I'm reliving my youth through the medium of speedball 2. who said there's no games for linux..

<deiaccord> lol

<Nik_Laptop> ahh speedball2

<deiaccord> 1 was the nuts in the 1st one

<Nik_Laptop> brutal deluxe ftw :)

<treb0r> it f**king rocks still

<deiaccord> ssb1?

<treb0r> i just won the cup for the first time since 1992

<treb0r> my hands hurt

<Nik_Laptop> i wonder where the PC updated version is up to

<deiaccord> in sb1 i could beat the hardest team with a starter team in a league game :)

<Nik_Laptop> as they promised it after it was ported to midp for mobiles

<treb0r> anybody got a clue about usable game pads for ubuntu?

<treb0r> speedball arena sucked.

<treb0r> it was built on the unreal engine. no playability

<Nik_Laptop> treb0r: doesnt the xb360 controllers work on linux?

<deiaccord> they are usb

<deiaccord> so yes

<treb0r> can you buy them separately from the console?

<Nik_Laptop> yup

<deiaccord> need usb adaptor for the mthough

<treb0r> will they get recognised?

<Nik_Laptop> ?

<Nik_Laptop> had no issues with the wired one i played with

<Nik_Laptop> but that was on OSX

<treb0r> I mean, will the kernel have the drivers for them?

<deiaccord> wil lsee it as a joystick

<Nik_Laptop> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Xbox_360_controller_on_Linux

<Nik_Laptop> should be just a standard HID device

<deiaccord> might not get ALL the buttons working tohugh

<Nik_Laptop> its the advanced features it won't be able to use without extra drivers, like vibrate

<treb0r> As long as I get to play speedball, I don't care :)

<deiaccord> how much is your host popey?

<treb0r> i use textdrive over in the states - got a fantastic deal. Ontop of my hosting package they gave me 100gb of secure storage with rsync for $499 - for life :)

<treb0r> http://strongspace.com

<Nik_Laptop> i use txd as well

<Nik_Laptop> really really good host :)

<treb0r> do you have a mixed grill 3 martini, or what?

<Nik_Laptop> nah just standard hosting

<treb0r> I use positive internet for high bandwidth stuff for the UK, hard to beat for that..

<treb0r> £125 + VAT PA for unlimited bandwidth..

<treb0r> 1GB storage

<Nik_Laptop> txd for my personal hosting, 1&1 for a co-lo in Amsterdam, and Linode for backup dns and stuff

<deiaccord> virtual host or webhosting?

<treb0r> linode? never heard of that..

<Nik_Laptop> www.linode.com

<treb0r> are they in the UK?

<Nik_Laptop> dirty cheap xen/uml machines :)

<Nik_Laptop> nah US

<Nik_Laptop> the bandwidth is sketchy at times, but their uptime is good

<deiaccord> was looking at 1&1 virtual hosting 20gb storage and 60gb transfer limit, for 15gbp +vat /pm

<X3N> http://www.lowcostd