<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: yet another computer update <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/145783.html>

<dsas> hmm, I wish we had something quick and worth eating in the house

<gord> you could make something thats slow and worth eating, but do it in a 'ready steady cook' style way, I bet that turns it into quick food

<dsas> sounds like a lot of effort gord.

<dsas> if only we had bread.

<dsas> "Last update: March 10, 2007 19:31"...."already been updated today". uhm?

<gord> bread is one of the base ingredients, along with milk, butter, sugar and coffee

<dsas> one of the base ingredients of gord?

<dsas> I think I'd be made out of bread, cheese, onion and jalapeno peppers,

<gord> essentially, toast + coffee constitutes far too much of my diet

* dsas reminisces of this mornings brunch.

<dsas> I usually drink tea at home, but my girlfriend just got a coffee maker, so I can have nice coffee at home now :)

<Seeker`> woo for free music

<Seeker`> dsas: Unlucky, coffee is ebil

<Seeker`> popey: You imply that it can be too late to go to the pub...

<dsas> Seeker`: It can when it's closed.

<popey> indeed

<dsas> Seeker`: I enjoy lattes, (or hot chocolate with espresso). usually I drink green tea though.

<dsas> if I need stimulation I drink generic red bulls .

* Seeker` mainly drink cadburys hot chocolate, or pg tips, or (if at work) the free tea from the machine

<dsas> man you're as lame as my housemate! hot chocolate isn't good. at least not without an espresso dumped in it.

<dsas> my housemate is the only person I know who drinks hot chocolate to wake him up.

<popey> heh

<Seeker`> i dont drink hot drinks all that much

<Seeker`> i do, however, drink vast quantities of water, coke, lemonade and milk

<popey> i generally have about 3-4 coffees at work

<popey> more this week because I am on the early shift

<AndrewB> Morning all.

<dsas> I have 3-4 coffees a week.

<dsas> maybe 2 cups of tea each day, a glass of orange juice, and litres and litres of water.

<dsas> morning andrew

* AndrewB doesn't drink tea. Coffee if I have alot of work to do.

<AndrewB> And tonnes of water.

<AndrewB> And about my weight or double in alcohol.

<AndrewB> ....per day

<AndrewB> jk heh

* Seeker` drinks up to 5 litres of water / juice / fizzy stuff a day

* popey doesnt drink as much as that

<popey> that seems like too much to me

<Seeker`> yeah, it is a bit too much

<Seeker`> its usually under 4 litres

<popey> thats still loads to me

<popey> i just drink when I am thirsty :)

<Seeker`> well, you are meant to drink at least 2

<popey> no you're not

<popey> you are meant to drink when you need to :)

<popey> been proven that people who drink loads are no different than people who drink little

<Seeker`> it is said that drinking 2 liters of water a day can be benificial

<Norf-ubu> make mine a large one barman i *need* a drink HIC

<popey> there was a programme about it

<popey> debunking that exact myth

<popey> "The truth about food"

<Seeker`> apparently you have to drink 8 liters a day for 2 weeks for it to have serious negative effects

<popey> no, i am not saying that

<popey> I am saying you dont *need* to drink a lot

<popey> there is no minimum

<Seeker`> i would argue that there is a minimum amount of water that you need to drink

<popey> sure

<X3N> well, no drink wouldn't be too good for you

<popey> but it isnt what people think it is

<popey> and it isn't what "experts" would have you believe

<X3N> basically if you feel thirsty you need to drink a bit more

<X3N> ;)

<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/flashapp/nonflash.shtml

<popey> "Does drinking two litres of water a day improve your skin?"

<popey> for example

<dsas> I remember watching that show.

<dsas> I'm not sure that it was totally scientific. Also it only measures the "quality" of the skin.

<popey> that one did

<dsas> that one did what?

<popey> what you said

<popey> but other programmes went into detail in other areas

<AndrewB> popey: btw.. you are supposed to drink _before_ you are thirsty.

<dsas> ah ok. didn't watch the others.

<X3N> 5 times table is the best

<X3N> wrong window

<popey> in fact if you watch that video it explains where the 2.4L/day comes from

<AndrewB> ment for #math X3N :p

<X3N> (it is the best though)

<popey> american advice, which says that a good amount to drink is that much

<popey> but the next bit says - most of which is in your prepared food

<popey> which nobody ever takes into account

<popey> more than 1/3 of our water comes from food

<X3N> By the way peoples, GUADEC papers need to be in for tomorrow if anyone is thinking about doing a talk

<dsas> ohh yeah, I remember that bit now.

* AndrewB drinks about 4L a day. 6-8 if I hit the climbing wall, or do anything else energy taxing.

<popey> ooo guadec

<popey> juice, milky, tea and coffee all count

<popey> "you don't need to drink 2l of extra water on top of your normal diet" .. last line of that video :)

<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/flashapp/ram/water?size=16x9&bgc=000000&nbram=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1

<Seeker`> my housemates dont believe how much milk i get through

<popey> blech

<popey> I cant drink milk

<X3N> My brother and I have been working on gaudec.org today.. should be good

<popey> milkshake yes, in tea/coffe, yes

<popey> on its own.. id puke

<X3N> also canonical should be sponsering it !

<popey> why?

* X3N vodo pokes jono

<popey> what about every other app inside ubuntu

<popey> gnome is only one bit

<X3N> because ubuntu uses gnome as the desktop interface...

<X3N> gnome is 90% of ubuntu

<popey> and kubuntu uses?

<X3N> kde

* Seeker` gets through up to 3 pints of milk a day, usually just under 2

<popey> gnome is 90% of ubuntu!?

<AndrewB> They donated to aKademy...

<popey> gaim, firefox, oo.o?

<popey> linux kernel?

<X3N> gnome aim = gaim

<X3N> firefox is gnome'd by the firefox-gnome compatibility

<popey> not a gnome project though

<AndrewB> X3N: they say it isn't that.. on their faq

<popey> again, not a gnome project

<X3N> doesn't matter, it uses gnome

<popey> they are apps with GTK+ frontends, but they are not official gnome apps

<popey> of course it does

<popey> if canonical sponsored that theyd have to sponsor every other event

<X3N> just saying, in the big scheme of things gnome is a very large dependency, so canonical should be supporting it

<popey> it is pretty huge

* popey wonders how many people ask canonical for money each day :)

* AndrewB should ask more often.

<popey> heh

<AndrewB> ;)

<X3N> gnome is very different from many of the other projects

<dsas> gnome does provide most of what users experience as "ubuntu".

<X3N> it's in the same league as a kernel

<popey> true

<X3N> if there was a conference to improve kernels it would be good if canonical supported that too

<X3N> it would help to stop ubuntu becoming so segregated from the rest of the open source community

<popey> was surprised they were not at fosdem

<X3N> there were people from gnome there

* AndrewB never got to attend FOSSDEM :'(

<X3N> it's hard work to get people to represent gnome because it's not as glamerous as a full distrobution

<popey> i meant there were no ubuntu/canonical people there

<popey> only some people from ubuntu-nl and ubuntu-be

<dsas> and that is why you should all join #gnome-uk and hang out there too!

<X3N> jono was there wasn't he ?

<popey> no

<X3N> oh

<popey> no stands, talks, rooms, nothing

<AndrewB> Slowww connection tonight :'(

<popey> and so to bed

<popey> nn chaps

<X3N> night popey

<Seeker`> nn

<dsas> night popey

<AndrewB> cya popey

<Seeker`> grr, work tomorrow

<dsas> grr university tomorrow.

<dsas> lecture at 9am :(

<dsas> I had no problems being at work for 8am every morning, but being at uni for 9am just doesn't seem right.

<Seeker`> heh, well with uni you can just not turn up, you only have yourself to answer to

<dsas> I could do yeah. I think we're getting an assignment handed out.

<dsas> plus I have a demonstration in the afternoon, followed by my project meeting tuesday. skipping things to lay in bed isn't the best start.

* dsas scowls at his final year.

* Seeker` has the joys of final year next year

* dsas has the joys of bed now.

<Seeker`> nn

<dsas> night!

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Jono Bacon: Interpretations <http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=921>

* popey adds Andrew Price to the ubuntu-uk planet

<GazzaK> Morning PriceChild & Sio

<PriceChild> Hey GazzaK

<Sio> blergh

<PriceChild> What're you up for so early?

<Sio> ello ello

<Sio> my connection is dodgy :s

<GazzaK> PriceChild, I'm at work

<PriceChild> GazzaK, its 8am...

<Sio> GazzaK, insanity!

<GazzaK> PriceChild, that is correct

<GazzaK> I work 8am till 5.30pm

<PriceChild> dude!

<PriceChild> Its 8am

<PriceChild> have you any idea what time it is?

<PriceChild> @now

<PriceChild> pfft who needs ubugtu... its still 8am!

<GazzaK> yes, it is 8am

<GazzaK> well done

<GazzaK> I finish at 4.30pm on fridays though :-)

<Sio> 8am too early for work

<Sio> 8am too early for thinking

<GazzaK> I agree

<Sio> :(

<GazzaK> but "I have to be here in case it all goes bang"

<Sio> oh beryl updates, whee

<Sio> hopefully whitescreen fix

<GazzaK> but once I check me backups, I end up bored as a bored thing for the rest of the day

<GazzaK> I've organised my first lug meet - bet no one turns up!

<Sio> where?

<GazzaK> ping popey do you wanna come to colchester on the 5th April

<GazzaK> Sio, colchester

<popey> colchester is quite some distance from me

<popey> and its my birthday on the 4th :)

<GazzaK> yeah, I know

<Sio> could train it from here

<Seeker`> mornin

<popey> ey-up

<GazzaK> popey, how old?

<GazzaK> :-)

<GazzaK> morning Seeker`

<popey> http://lists.libdems.org.uk/wws/info/libdem_oss interesting

<Seeker`> lo loudmouthman

<loudmouthman> hey Seeker`

<Seeker`> loudmouthman: Anywhere interesting today?

<loudmouthman> grr things that should be banned. Home Workers whose "sons" know a abit about IT who help out their mums! guess what my clients employee did today!

<Seeker`> :S

<Seeker`> formatted the hard drive?

<loudmouthman> working down at Horsham then im up to cheam to see one of my favourite clients.

<loudmouthman> no the son tried to reconfigure the network so she could get online ( what so fscking hard about plugging in the damned ethernet cable ! ) apparently he was changing domain names and stuff and then needed the admin password ( which he doesnt need ! ) . sheesh . dont touch what you cant afford is what I say.

<GazzaK> loudmouthman, we all have them... sadly most of the time, the parent is a manager or other "untouchable"

<jayteeuk> Morning all.

<popey> aaartgh

<popey> company where I work has a product called "aptitude", every time I hear it I twitch

<jayteeuk> Morning popey. :)

<popey> :)

<selinuxium_> morning all :)

<selinuxium_> jayteeuk: popey: do you guys ever sleep? you are always here. or are you very well coded bots?

<jayteeuk> selinuxium_: Please re-phrase your question, I am programmed with only a limited number of responses.

<selinuxium_> :D

<popey> heh

<popey> I slept from 1am to 5am tody

<selinuxium_> Here is a real question for you chaps.

<selinuxium_> hi all, I have a laptop HD on my connected to my Ubuntu laptop via a usb cradle. The drive is having serious click of death problems and is not being auto mounted by Ubuntu. I can see it in lsusb how can I connect it all manually?

<popey> well, 1am to 05:30

<popey> physically connect it?

<selinuxium_> i managed 02:45 to 06:30

<popey> to be honest it doesnt matter if you connect directly or via usb

<selinuxium_> popey: I want to see if I can get any data off of it before I let my boss knw it really is totally kn@ck3rd

<popey> if it's buggered, its buggered

<selinuxium_> popey: I know, i am just trying to dot I's and X T's

<popey> so yank the disk out of your laptop, put his in, boot from a live cd?

<selinuxium_> It has got his family pics on it..

<popey> or use a cradle to plug it into a desktop

<popey> but if it is buggered, its buggered

<selinuxium_> popey: i have plugged it into a cradle. I connected it to a winbloze machine and it did not report in the file structure. I have plugged it into my Ubuntu laptop to see if I can get any further...

<popey> what kind of cradle are you talking about?

<popey> usb or ide?

<selinuxium_> usb

<popey> not that it matters :)

<selinuxium_> lol

<popey> does it see the disk?

<popey> fdisk?

<popey> doesnt matter if it doesnt mount it, do you see the disk in dmesg when yo plug the usb in?

<selinuxium_> attached to scsi dick sda, Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0

<selinuxium_> oops typo...

<popey> so sudo fdisk /dev/sda

<popey> p to print partition table, does it look intact

<popey> see if it is ntfs (likely to be)

<selinuxium_> Unable to read...

<popey> :(

<popey> you may have some success with a tool called spinrite

<popey> its payware

<popey> but not very expensive

<popey> it is claimed to be able to recover data

* jayteeuk is on the phone, but has a contribution to make....

<popey> try smartctl -H /dev/sda

<popey> to see the health of the device

<loudmouthman> oooh spinrite .. ( yep works really well )

<selinuxium_> I have a copy somewhere...

<popey> smartctl -t short /dev/hda

<selinuxium_> popey: smartctl not found...

<popey> short tests

* loudmouthman has used spinrite three times in the last 2 years and has had 100% success every time so he can confirm it works well.

<popey> install it :0

<jayteeuk> Sorry about that.

<jayteeuk> Are we talking disk recovery?

<selinuxium_> popey: SMART Health Status: OK

<popey> and the -t?

<selinuxium_> popey: Short offline self test failed [Operation not permitted]

<popey> sudo

<selinuxium_> popey: sorry, very tired this morning. Short offline self test failed [unsupported scsi opcode]

<popey> this is IDE not SATA?

<popey> did you do smartctl -t /dev/sda

<selinuxium_> popey: ide to usb :)

<popey> sorry, i said hda

<selinuxium_> sorry.

<selinuxium_> popey, two mins to completion..

<popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/

<popey> holy cow, people are using our pastebin :)

<AndrewB|School> Hey.

<jayteeuk> :)

<selinuxium_> popey: didn't konw we had our own! ii should really attend a few more of the meetings.

<popey> its not official yet

<popey> it may change completely

<jayteeuk> There's a GNU tool for recovering hard drives, I forget what it's called. ddrestore or somthing.

<AndrewB|School> We have meetings?? heh

<popey> we do

<popey> online

<AndrewB|School> Ah

<AndrewB|School> Somebody should ping me at such times. Or /invite me.

<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes

<popey> do it yourself :)

<popey> hmmm

<popey> none scheduled

<popey> loudmouthman: ping

<loudmouthman> popey pong

<AndrewB|School> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/Guadec2007MeetingNotes

<selinuxium_> AndrewB: look at the /topic

<AndrewB|School> dead link?

<popey> we have no meeting scheduled

<AndrewB|School> heh

<loudmouthman> is it not in the topic ? of is it not in the wiki ?

<popey> and do we have the notes from the last one?

<loudmouthman> yes . and I really need to write them up

<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070221Meeting

<selinuxium_> popey: you have in the topic! 20th march

<popey> that looks somewahat blank

<loudmouthman> okay i'll put it on my todo to today .

<popey> meh

<popey> was using the wiki

<loudmouthman> meh ?

<selinuxium_> popey: drives have stopped spinning. were does it stick the report?

<popey> that was aimed at selinuxium_

<popey> on the screen

* AndrewB|School thinks we should get the scots to have a more regular [if ever] local meeting...

* AndrewB|School might start a thead on mail list.

<AndrewB|School> or a thread

<GazzaK> I waxed my car yesterday, it looks wooooo in the sun today :-)

<selinuxium_> popey: it has not reported anything...

<popey> no output at all?

<selinuxium_> i will PB what I have.

<selinuxium_> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/11

<AndrewB|School> It doesn't look like any Local Local group have had a meeting yet?

<popey> selinuxium_: *sda* not hda

<GazzaK> AndrewB, I'm having one on the 5th April

<popey> hda is your internal hard disk

<popey> sda is the usb disk

<AndrewB|School> GazzaK where?

<GazzaK> mind you, thats really the Colchester LUG meet, but I'll make it the UK Team South East meet too

<jayteeuk> Morning GazzaK. You have sun?

<AndrewB|School> and GazzaK Do you have a kind of schedule/plan?

<popey> we do too \o/

<GazzaK> AndrewB|School, Colchester

<jayteeuk> Swap?

<selinuxium_> popey, i did that and gave you the response before. Short offline self test failed [unsupported scsi opcode] :)

<AndrewB|School> ag

<AndrewB|School> ah*

<GazzaK> and AndrewB|School - it's at a PUB, so the plan is..... hic

<popey> selinuxium_: you need to plug it in directly then

<selinuxium_> I really like the castle at colchester... [Anorak on]

<selinuxium_> I don't think I have a live cd with me.... I will hae to download and burn one. Thanks for all your help so far! :)

<popey> smartctl is assuming it is a scsi drive because the usb interface presents it as such

<popey> you need to plug it into an ide interface

<popey> At the computer end, it's doing SCSI->USB-Storage, and the other end is doing USB-Storage->IDE in hardware.

<selinuxium_> popey, i see.

<selinuxium_> as an aside what is the Ubuntu Alternate download?

<popey> the non-live version

<popey> install only

<popey> you need the live cd

<selinuxium_> popey: ok always nice to know these things! :)

<popey> or

<popey> do you not have one of those laptop converters?

<popey> converts laptop ide size connector to desktop sized ide connector

<popey> so you can plug a laptop drive into a desktop

<selinuxium_> I will have another go in an hour. Yes I do, but at the office 60 miles away....

<popey> :(

<selinuxium_> I need to build a proper box of tricks to take out and about with me! :)

<popey> bet there is a maplin/pcworld/indie pc shop nearer

* loudmouthman nods sagely .

<AndrewB|School> Is the mail list published anywhere online currently?

<popey> yes

<popey> url in every single mail

<popey> at the bottom

<popey> lists.ubuntu.com

<popey> scroll down until you get to ubuntu-uk

<popey> click it, then click archives

<AndrewB|School> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/

<AndrewB|School> Gotcha

<popey> thats it

<loudmouthman> are you at work at present popey ?

<selinuxium_> popey: true, but I am not at liberty to open the boxes really, it is the bosses home laptop. and company policy would soon get us into hot water!

<popey> yes

<AndrewB|School> Cause I will try to get a meet on the Scottish group. I will have to contact other LUG groups.. looking for people interested.

<popey> er

<popey> selinuxium_: you have to have opened the box to get his laptop drive out surely?

<popey> AndrewB|School: neuro_ is a scottslug person iirc

<loudmouthman> suppor lines really not that busy then <Grin>

* popey is working

<popey> doing daily checks

<selinuxium_> popey: from his personal laptop. The only other box I have to play with that isn't 'in use' is a windows server! :)

<popey> oh, i see

<selinuxium_> popey: if i boot with a live cd can I still install apps?

<jayteeuk> GNU ddrescue is the package I was trying to remember.

<popey> yes selinuxium_

<selinuxium_> Cool, i didn't know that. all the time i have been using ubuntu (5.04?) and i didn't know!

<selinuxium_> popey: what was before hoary?

<popey> warty

<selinuxium_> and before that?

<popey> warty was first

<popey> warty, hoary, breezy, dapper, edgy, feisty

<jayteeuk> Before Warty was a twinkle in Mark Shuttleworth's eye. :)

<popey> if you install apps on the live cd, then install the live cd to hard disk, the software you installed will be on the hard disk

<selinuxium_> I have been using it since warty! Woo Hoo! I got in there at the beginning, you would have thought I would have learnt a bit more really!

<popey> heh

* popey too

<popey> I switched from debian to warty when it came out

<selinuxium_> warty was my first go at linux. it was a very easy intro! :)

<jayteeuk> I tried a Hoary LiveCD, but only started running it from the hard drive at Breezy.

<popey> excellent

<selinuxium_> popey: with the drive in it's current state, is it advisable to install a program? It may try and write it to a part of the disc that needs recovering>?

<popey> no

<popey> i would definately NOT do that

<popey> especially given it is NTFS

<selinuxium_> popey: cool :)

<popey> and someone elses :)

<selinuxium_> lol

<popey> right now you have some options

<popey> if you write to it you could potentially reduce those options

<selinuxium_> popey: exactly. :)

<jayteeuk> I love my wife.

<jayteeuk> Probably just as well really. :)

<jayteeuk> Sometimes she puts my gobbledigook into such plain terms.

<Seeker`> jayteeuk: huh?

<jayteeuk> I was just ranting about the fact that my boss wants me to leave my phone on when I go on holiday, "just in case we need to contact you".

<jayteeuk> And saying that maybe if they employed another programmer instead of trying to get by with just me, there'd be someone who was actually working to cover any such situations.

<Seeker`> heh, tell them if they want to get in contact with you that much, they can send someone to come find you on your holiday

<popey> you can have it switched on

<jayteeuk> And she came out with "It's like if you're on a long car journey -- you don't try and get by with the absolute minimum amount of petrol in your tank, you fill it up."

<popey> doesn't mean it has to be on

<popey> or on loudly

<jayteeuk> It'll be off, make no mistake about that.

<popey> i always have my phone on, holiday or not

<Seeker`> jayteeuk: What sort of phone?

<Norf-ubu> G'day

<jayteeuk> Nokia 6280.

<jayteeuk> Morning Norf-ubu. ;)

<Norf-ubu> <yawn> what did I miss?

<Seeker`> jayteeuk: You could put it on silent - claim you were in a quiet carriage on a train, and just forgot to unsilent it

<popey> <GazzaK> That Norf-ubu guy smells

<popey> you mised that Norf-ubu

<jayteeuk> Norf-ubu: Tony Blair came into the channel and said he wanted us to switch all Government systems to Ubuntu.

<popey> :)

<Norf-ubu> the usual then :)

<jayteeuk> Seeker`: It does have a "Flight profile".

<Norf-ubu> the decision to use Ubuntu has already been made... they're just arguing now over which theme to use

<Seeker`> jayteeuk: That'll do :D

<jayteeuk> "Oh dear, I appear to have forgotten to switch it back to a normal profile after getting off the plane."

<GazzaK> popey, you are cruel

<Norf-ubu> yeah its a bit disconcerting if you dont turn flight mode on with a PDA and it comes up "Device: Jumbo 747 wishes to bond"

<popey> :)

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Nik Butler: Full Metal Keyboards. <http://www.loudmouthman.com/2007/03/12/full-metal-keyboards/>

<DaveMorris> grrr nics page keeps on forwarding me

<jayteeuk> Whoa... I just ran a query on a load of services for my boss and it returned 666 rows. Should I be worried?

<DaveMorris> whats your bosses name?

<jayteeuk> Lucifer.

<DaveMorris> your fine then

<jayteeuk> Phew!

<jayteeuk> My fine?

<jayteeuk> ;)

* jayteeuk is waiting for dsas to turn up.

<jayteeuk> I need to apologise for going AWOL on Friday night.

<gord> huzzahs and good afternoons to the various peoples

<popey> greetings

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Simon Elliot: Sun! <http://www.sionide.net/wp/?p=310>

<loudmouthman> afternoon again

<gord> oh for crying out loud, if your gonna launch some communication satellites, don't name them after the evil skynet computer system that plots to destroy human kind in the terminator films... stoopid government >:(

<loudmouthman> its okay , its only a play

<Seeker`> gord: What do you mean named after? thats what they based the designs on :P

<loudmouthman> dibs on sarah connor

<loudmouthman> ooh eer that was so incredibly sexist of me . <grin> I should hang my head in shame ! ... nah stuffit 1

<popey> o_O

<gord> mmmmmm toast

<Norf-ubu> maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan you're addicted

<gord> I just don't have much else in at the mo

<popey> \o/ toast

* popey loves his toaster

<popey> best in the world

<gord> mine is too small, some bread doesn't fit n I have to cut it up

<Norf-ubu> ASDA do full size toasters for less than a fiver

<Norf-ubu> or did

<popey> \o/ Dualit toasters

<popey> british made too

<Norf-ubu> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

<gord> British made just makes me think its steam powered... which now I think about it could possibly the coolest thing Iv ever heard of

<popey> it is quite manual

<popey> it doesnt pop up the toast

<loudmouthman> right off to cheam !

<loudmouthman> laters

<Norf-ubu> Cheam ? the place or the activity <grins>

<gord> boo websites that open links in new windows

<GazzaK> I need to buy a new oven, any ideas?

<popey> I have a range thing

<gord> make sure you get one that cooks food? Im pretty sure thats all you need to look for in an oven

<GazzaK> well, not that big, just a boring, under counter, fan assisted thing

<GazzaK> I'm thinking of one in comet, this one actually http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=280674

<GazzaK> £270 for the electric oven and matching gas hob

* popey doesnt like electric cooking of any kind :(

<popey> gas++

<GazzaK> popey, electric for the oven is the best, but gas for the hob rules

<jayteeuk> popey++

<popey> Electric ovens blow goats

<popey> I have proof

<GazzaK> anyways, the house has electric for the oven at the mo, and I prefer electric OK

<gord> eat up electricity like no mans bussiness too

<Norf-ubu> deffo Gas...

<Seeker`> GazzaK +1

<Seeker`> Electric ovens are best

<Seeker`> and gas hobs

<GazzaK> this one says it can be powered from a 13 amp socket - so it must be low power

<popey> :S

<popey> a.k.a. gutless

<popey> probably only goes up to 80 degrees :)

<gord> you could use it to get a tan!

<GazzaK> so anyways, apart from the gas v's electric arguement, anyone know of any place better than comet for buying one :p

<GazzaK> popey, up to 250c

<Seeker`> if you need to cook food > 250c, you are doing something wrong

<popey> we got ours in john lewis

<GazzaK> was it pricey popey

<popey> it is a big double oven, so yes, but they had loads

<GazzaK> woo, they have the same oven cheaper - http://www.johnlewis.com/Electrical/Cookers/Cookers/Built+in+Ovens/462/230216284/Product.aspx

<GazzaK> £30 cheaper too

<popey> :)

<Norf-ubu> go for an AGA running on gas oil...

<GazzaK> free delivery too

<Seeker`> you should just stare at your food

<Norf-ubu> keeps the house warm too - BONUS

<Seeker`> if you practice hard enough, you can scare it in to cooking itself

<GazzaK> and £9 for old appliance disposal (important when you have a wonderful practical car like mine)

<Norf-ubu> ah the old "mekkon wave" cooking trick

<GazzaK> popey, thanks for the john lewis idea

<popey> np

<Seeker`> GazzaK: You can barely fit a weeks shopping in the back?

<popey> when we bought our first house we bought an oven, fridge, fridge-freezer, washing machine, dishwasher and tumble dryer all from John lewis

<GazzaK> Seeker`, true

<popey> in one go

<Seeker`> popey: That must've cost a lot

<popey> just a bit

<Seeker`> john lewis = good

<popey> we thought that the washing machine had packed up the other day

<popey> nasty grinding noises

<popey> it was one of sophies hair clips stuck in the pump

<GazzaK> what do you think of this http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/category/230227603_cat1.jpg

<Seeker`> bit expensive for a phone

<GazzaK> what about this one, £79 http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/product/230217998.jpg

<GazzaK> two handsets and answerphone

<GazzaK> damn, moving is nice and fun, but expensive having to buy loads of stuff

<popey> blue LEDs in the home should be banned

<popey> very annoying

<GazzaK> anyone want to buy a nice free standing cooker?

<popey> along with those utter tools who put blue LEDs on their cars

<GazzaK> popey, agree on the car thing - www.barryboys.co.uk

<gord> I have blooooo leds on my computers fan in here, although its not connected up at the mo because its cold enough and the fan is very noisy

* Seeker` has blue cold cathode tubes in his computer

<GazzaK> I have blue lights on a works vehicle, does that count?

<GazzaK> they are really barry too, they flash and everything

<GazzaK> arghhh, john lewis - We will call you within 7 days to arrange a suitable delivery date for this large item (delivery within 14 days)

<GazzaK> but I need/want it now!!!

<GazzaK> sod it, i'll have to get it from Comet, boo

<Seeker`> GazzaK: Go to a john lewis store?

<Seeker`> try to convince them to give you a display model for cheap

<GazzaK> I doubt they have it in stock, and even if they do, the nearest one is lakeside, which is a pita to pick up things like that from

<GazzaK> as i'd need to "borrow" the works van (maybe the one with flashy lights!)

<popey> :)

<GazzaK> i'll pay £270 and get the hob as well, as it is in stock now at my local comets

<GazzaK> thanks though popey

* GazzaK likes john lewis

<jayteeuk> GazzaK: Cut the cost and check out Freecycle. :)

<GazzaK> jayteeuk, it's dead in colchester, I am already a subscriber

<GazzaK> got rid of my old sofa that way \o/

<jayteeuk> I often think it would benefit from a web interface.

<jayteeuk> But then that would probably remove the "impulse" element.

<GazzaK> right, since we have settled on the cooker, I also need to make or buy shelving for the living room, like this http://www.kearley.net/media/house/living%20room%203.png

<GazzaK> any ideas on how to do that?

<jayteeuk> Chipboard is cheap from B&Q.

<jayteeuk> Or MDF.

* GazzaK needs a home makeover team in, but not that lawrence idiot

* jayteeuk puts away his frilly shirt.

<GazzaK> jayteeuk, it needs to "look" like oak, so maybe veneered plywood?

<GazzaK> I might need a local cheapish chippy for this one, as yet again, I cannot even get the bits of wood home!

<jayteeuk> Hmmm... not sure. I think you can get those kits these days that you paint on and they give a woodgrain effect.

<popey> well..

<popey> our living room has units that we made ourself out of well.. units :)

<gord> the woman on tv doing the weather just said 'the sun looked like it was on fire first thing this morning!'

<GazzaK> shall we rename this channel "Gary's home DIY 101 Q&A"

<popey> we went to ikea and bought kitchen units and used them in the lounge

<popey> you wouldnt know

<jayteeuk> gord: Who'd have though, eh?

<jayteeuk> s/though/thought

<popey> the nice thing about ikea stuff is you can customise it heavily - pick and choose feet and handles for example

* Seeker` wishes he had his own house

<jayteeuk> I think we should stop this discussion at once. I'm getting an urge to take a trip to Ikea that I can't afford.

<popey> heh

<gord> there are far too many people using restrictive creative commons licences if you ask me

<popey> on images you want to use?

<jayteeuk> I keep looking around and thinking "Some new kitchen units... a new bathroom unit... I could box those pipes in... build some shelving there..."

<popey> i hate DIY

<jayteeuk> Then have to remind myself that it's not my house.

<popey> with a passion

<popey> I get a man in

<Seeker`> jayteeuk: Whose house is it?

<jayteeuk> Seeker`: The landlord's.

<gord> indeedy popey, non commercial and no modifications do not make for stuff I can use

<Seeker`> jayteeuk: Same situation as me then :P

<Seeker`> I've got another 18 months at least before I will even have a job

<popey> dont do it man!

<jayteeuk> I'd love to do the place up, but I'm loathe to spend lots of cash doing up a house I'm only going to be living in for another couple of years.

<popey> dont be a slave!

<popey> start your own company!

<Seeker`> popey: If you start your own company you will still have a job...

<DaveMorris> Seeker`: I have a job and I'be a tad short each month of buying in the south

<Seeker`> DaveMorris: I probably will be too for about 10 years

<popey> pedant ;p

<Seeker`> Just gotta hope that I can get a decent job

<popey> what sort of job Seeker` ?

<popey> development?

<popey> maybe voda will take you on?

<Seeker`> possibly

<Seeker`> noone has said anything about the possibility of me coming back

<Seeker`> it depends on if they want me back / how much they will pay / if i find anywhere else / where my girlfriend can find work

<Seeker`> / if i pass my degree

<DaveMorris> Seeker`: You'll get a job, but alot of the programming jobs around here I see are for C#, .NET, VB

<DaveMorris> I see a few Java ones but they are mainly senior postions

* Seeker` isn't sure if he wants to do Java

<jayteeuk> That's me buggered then.

<DaveMorris> Java is actually quite nice, the more I think about it

<DaveMorris> yeah its not as powerfull as C++, nor as fast

<DaveMorris> but it allows you to not worry about alot of things that you are running.

<Seeker`> I'm quite interested in low level stuff

<DaveMorris> thats not quite right

<Seeker`> but i've not had the oppertunity to do much

<gord> python for the high level stuff, C for the low, best combination around

<DaveMorris> oh the C lvel

<GazzaK> become a drainage inspector then

<Seeker`> Assembly is fun

<DaveMorris> http://www.jobsite.co.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.pl?src=rss_partner&selection=921912335 just seen this senior C position, so they are around still

<gord> assembly is fun if its 1994 and you have to use it to get a computer to do anything at any descent speed, these days its neigh on useless, not to mention ridiculously unportable :P

<DaveMorris> best advice would be to write some OSS code and get it out there for them to see when you have interviews, it'll put you ahead of the other graduates

<Seeker`> i will be needing entry level jobs though :P

<Seeker`> gord: I still think its fun

<jayteeuk> DaveMorris: I'd agree with that. I need to do the same. :)

<DaveMorris> just find that unique thing which you can produce and people use, stick it on sourceforge and your away

<DaveMorris> maybe combine it with your final yr project

<popey> Seeker`: do you know python?

<Seeker`> I;m going to try to do something compilery for my final year project

<popey> write my python app for me :)

<Seeker`> popey: I can write some basic stuff, nothing advanced right now

<Seeker`> popey: What does it need to be able to do?

<popey> i need to write a spec :)

<jayteeuk> I'm still playing with Python in my spare time. :)

<Seeker`> popey: Rough outline?

<jayteeuk> OH MY, that sounds terrible!

<DaveMorris> someone suggested I use glade and python to create a front end to my app

<popey> i am about to go home, will type up when I get there

<DaveMorris> 1/2 day for popey then

<popey> 6am-2pm, no lunch

<jayteeuk> DaveMorris: I've taken a look at Glade and PyGTK, I'm quite impressed.

<DaveMorris> any decent howtos you can point me to?

<DaveMorris> popey: I remember doing those shifts at Tesco

<jayteeuk> Erm, there was one that I downloaded, I think it was from a LUG talk actually.

* popey pings Seeker` in prv

* jayteeuk goes to look.

* popey waves his prv around in front of jayteeuk

<jayteeuk> ??

* jayteeuk doesn't see it.

<jayteeuk> It was a Hants LUG talk though. :)

<DaveMorris> lol

<jayteeuk> Which is probably why popey is waving at me.

<jayteeuk> Are you still PM'ing me popey?

<popey> er, no

<popey> i never was

<jayteeuk> Well that'd explain why I didn't see it then.

<popey> 14:01:19 * popey pings Seeker` in prv

* Seeker` wonders if jayteeuk spells jayteeuk as "Seeker`"

<jayteeuk> I'd forgotten it was a Hants LUG video... otherwise I'd have handed over to popey from the start. :)

* popey wonders what jayteeuk is babbling on about

<popey> ahh, the lug talks video

<popey> gotcha

* jayteeuk hands popey a coffe. ;)

* jayteeuk hands popey a coffee too.

<gord> really coffee should be cofey

<popey> \o/ home time

<popey> ttfn

<Seeker`> seeya popey

<gord> ta-ta

<jayteeuk> Au revoir.

<jayteeuk> Blimey is it that time already?

<jayteeuk> No wonder my stomach is growling.

<gord> have you eaten any lions recently? because that would explain it too

<gord> or a kitten with a grudge would explain well too

<jayteeuk> Not that I recall. All my cats are accounted for.

<jayteeuk> But I can't account for my wife's actions while I was sleeping. She may have fed me a stray.

<GazzaK> or worse

<jayteeuk> Indeed.

<GazzaK> jayteeuk, is all the cat litter accounted for?

<jayteeuk> It is.

<jayteeuk> I deal with that anyway -- not sure the wife would know where to find it. ;)

<jayteeuk> Right, lunch time.

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: Monday <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/145960.html>

<GazzaK> wow, that was interesting

<apokryphos> %last --from gazzak --with barry

<ubot3> apokryphos: [08:29:49] <GazzaK> they are really barry too, they flash and everything

<apokryphos> hm, very useful feature with supybot :P

<gord> I thought the feed aggregates were able to only identify blog posts about ubuntu? maybe a dreamed that

<popey> moo

<GazzaK> apokryphos, ?

<popey> GazzaK: I categorise mine

<apokryphos> GazzaK: demonstrating a nice supybot command 8)

<popey> only aggregate ones I tag as ubuntu

<popey> on both planet.ubuntu and planet.ubuntu-uk

<GazzaK> %last --from GazzaK --with tickles

<ubot3> GazzaK: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 1000 messages.

<popey> %last --from popey --with goats

<ubot3> popey: [08:10:57] <popey> Electric ovens blow goats

<GazzaK> %last --from GazzaK --with pokes

<ubot3> GazzaK: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 1000 messages.

<apokryphos> %help last

<ubot3> apokryphos: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)

<apokryphos> for full usage

<gord> only 1000 messages? shame

<GazzaK> I say those words loads

<apokryphos> that might be able to be extended, actually

* GazzaK pokes popey

<apokryphos> %config search last

<ubot3> apokryphos: supybot.plugins.Misc.last, supybot.plugins.Misc.last.nested, supybot.plugins.Misc.last.nested.includeTimestamp, and supybot.plugins.Misc.last.nested.includeNick

<GazzaK> %last --to GazzaK

<ubot3> GazzaK: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)

<Seeker`> lo popey

<apokryphos> %last --from GazzaK --with pokes --nolimit

<ubot3> apokryphos: [10:08:06] * GazzaK pokes popey and [10:07:41] <GazzaK> %last --from GazzaK --with pokes

<apokryphos> bleh

* apokryphos pets ubot3

<Norf-ubu> %last --from Norf_ubu --was extremely funny

<ubot3> Norf-ubu: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)

<Norf-ubu> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

<apokryphos> Norf-ubu: there's no --was

<gord> wouldn't it be nicer to just be able to regex instead?

<apokryphos> gord: regexp is supported with last

<gord> funky

<apokryphos> you just need to add --regexp <someregexp>

* gord gets to work devising far to complex regex's to do the simplest things in order to make himself look cleverer than he actually is

<GazzaK> haha

* popey pokes Seeker`

<GazzaK> lucky Seeker`

<jayteeuk> brb

* AndrewB waves.

* AndrewB whispers.. its quiet in here..

<Seeker`> BOO!!

<Norf-ubu> <shits pants>

<AndrewB> </shits pants> Clean up your ............html ;)

<Seeker`> !ohmy

<ubot3> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.

<Norf-ubu> ;) noted

<AndrewB> haha http://sorn.net/~sandyd/blog/windows_dep.png

<DaveMorris> LoudMouthMan: your blog redirects me to twiggers.com all the time

<LoudMouthMan> davemorris it does ? do you mean twitters ?

<LoudMouthMan> what in ? and how .

<DaveMorris> yeah, I tend off java and javascript and it still did

<DaveMorris> epiphany and firefox

<DaveMorris> it loads your site for a few secs then forwards to twitter.com

<popey> turn off flash

<popey> or get flashblock

<LoudMouthMan> hmm okay ill pass the comments to twitter then .,

<popey> there is a twitter flash thing on the left

<LoudMouthMan> its their plugin script thingie pokey ma jig

<popey> its a bit difficult to read

<popey> light orange on white

<DaveMorris> yeah, well I guess other users get it as well

<DaveMorris> really anyoying that I have to press the stop button

<LoudMouthMan> hmm its supposed to be black text on light orange

<LoudMouthMan> thanks for letting me know though .

<popey> your text is

<popey> the surround isnt

<Seeker`> hometime!!

<popey> LoudMouthMan: http://gallery.popey.com/gallery/screenshots/Screenshot_The_Opinions_of_a_Loud_Mouth_Man_Mozilla_Firefox

<LoudMouthMan> davemorris try to reload the page now i have removed the get thing

<DaveMorris> still does it

<LoudMouthMan> yeah black text on orange . title could do with tweaking .

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: just silly <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/146464.html> || Caroline Ford: well zd1211 isn't fixed in edgy after all <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/146379.html>

<LoudMouthMan> there ive changed the colour and I note that Daniel Robitaille is following me ! gosh !

<disco\\> lol

<nintendoduffin> hey

<jayteeuk> I make it about home time.

<willskills> lo guys :)

<LoudMouthMan> hey

<willskills> popey, tsmithe - I got a little further forward I think

<willskills> I can get some static from record now..... with AC97 turned up in the capture tab, but it still picks up nothing

<willskills> argh

<willskills> seriously - I am ready to throw my box out of the window :P

<willskills> LMM - you don't know much about alsa capture do you?

<willskills> I am paying for help, £20 to the man that can fix it :p

<LoudMouthMan> willskills I do but . im wondering why yuor getting static . where you are located.

<willskills> well it's not static

<willskills> do you have VNC?

<LoudMouthMan> yeah . sure .

<willskills> any danger you could help me through this?

<LoudMouthMan> sure

<willskills> I am quite serious when I say £20 to the man that can :p

<willskills> well, I set up my port forwarding

<LoudMouthMan> that cool if I can help give it to jonos event.

<willskills> how does VNC work then?

<willskills> do I need to send a request or what? I turned it on in edgy :)

<willskills> I had tsmithe ssh'd in the other day

<willskills> but he couldn't see anything obvious :)

<LoudMouthMan> willskills sounds like it could be a pita .. can you just install openssh-server and open port 22 and add me as a user, do you need me to walk you though this ?

<LoudMouthMan> okay thats fine it should be open still ..

<willskills> no, I don't - but I would like to know how you fixed it, if you fix, so i can help other people

<willskills> it is, sec

<LoudMouthMan> sure

<willskills> pm ^^

<daviey> grr, why did you go to pm - you should have posted the login details here :P

<LoudMouthMan> becayse I didnt need a back seat tech support guy <grin>

<tsmithe> willskills, how's it going?

<willskills> argh

* willskills bangs head on desk

<tsmithe> elaborate!

<willskills> alright mate hehe :)

<tsmithe> what have you done?

<willskills> LMM having a look now

<tsmithe> cool

<willskills> nothing! :D

<tsmithe> :P

<tsmithe> have you opened a bug?

<tsmithe> did the sound ever work? i can't remember...

<willskills> yeh - my playback is great

<willskills> it always has been

<willskills> I have gone through 4 installs now

<willskills> 2x dapper

<willskills> 2xedgy

<willskills> and never got capture to work

* willskills cries

<LoudMouthMan> capure is working this sounds like 1 of 2 things . 1) a mute is in place some where 2) another application ( like skype does this ) has the line interuppted and hung.

<willskills> I haven't loaded anything since booting

<tsmithe> LoudMouthMan, all the channels were unmuted when i checked, and nothing had any lock

* tsmithe gets food

<willskills> except gaim - and it's not running through aoss

<willskills> maybe it's stopping stuff?

<willskills> like, when I boot, and gaim fires up, it's killing access to my card? ;d

<LoudMouthMan> possibly but seems unlikely .

<LoudMouthMan> whats the result at present ?

<willskills> bugger all :/

<willskills> I loaded audacity and hit record

<willskills> let me check settings though

<willskills> dont know what its trying to do

<LoudMouthMan> also section 14 on here might be useful http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=HOWTO+Sound

<willskills> ok, in prefs it's just trying to /dev/dsp

<willskills> that's correct right? that will be my default soundcard?

<LoudMouthMan> sounds good to me

<willskills> guys!!

<willskills> I have no - /etc/asound.state ?

<willskills> ost distributions use alsactl to restore the mixer settings between reboots. The config-file is /etc/asound.state, and there is an entry

<willskills> control.39 {

<willskills> comment.access 'read write'

<willskills> comment.type BOOLEAN

<willskills> iface MIXER

<willskills> name 'Mic As Center/LFE'

<willskills> value false

<willskills> }

<willskills> (the number 39 is pretty sure different for others... the important part is Mic As Center/LFE) . The value has to be set to false in order to use a microphone! Thanks to the guy - whose nick I don't know - for that hint..

<willskills> sorry for no pastebin :)

<LoudMouthMan> loudmoutman

<willskills> eh? :P

<LoudMouthMan> so you should be able to past the code into the file and then restart alsa . or just use alsectrl -restore

<willskills> well, I don't have the file, so just create with those contents only?

<willskills> :)

<LoudMouthMan> /var/lib/alsa/asound.state

<willskills> ah right :)

<willskills> god damn - can I just say - you guys are awesome

<willskills> I am sure you are not infinite with the patience, but I really appreciate your help!

<willskills> hrm

<willskills> wtf

<willskills> okay, I'm going to pastebin this

<willskills> I wonder if I have found the problem :)

<willskills> it still seems to have settings for my onboard sound card

<willskills> which I disabled after the install

<willskills> 2secs:D

<LoudMouthMan> one mo ive a little girl to read night time story to

<willskills> :DDD

<willskills> the nose pickers are important!

<willskills> gogogogo like CS!

<willskills> man pastebin is slow :))

<willskills> http://pastebin.co.uk/11772

<willskills> .com is mega slow

<willskills> I left the tab loading, it still is, hahaha

* willskills closes

*** sharperguy is now known as idong

<willskills> :o

<willskills> indeed

*** idong is now known as sharperguy

<willskills> popey ?

<LoudMouthMan> hmm he hath rebooted his PC . doh !

<LoudMouthMan> meanwhile Id like to check all capture methodsother than mic but . oh well.

<LoudMouthMan> wb will skills.

* AndrewB waves to LoudMouthMan :)

<LoudMouthMan> hello AndrewB ?

<willskills> hi guys :)

<LoudMouthMan> hey Willskills so stil lno input ?

<willskills> well, I am just about to try that howto on linxugamers

<willskills> the 14 part

<willskills> I was just rebooting

<willskills> wanted to check my settings were kept, they are

<tsmithe> so, is the capture working?

<willskills> not yet

<willskills> :)

<tsmithe> not yet?

<LoudMouthMan> Willskills okay . also have you an onboard soundcard ?have you disabled it ?

<tsmithe> progress?

<tsmithe> LoudMouthMan, you don't need to disable sound cards

<willskills> I disabled it ages ago

<willskills> did you look at that pastebin?

<willskills> it looks like there are still entries relating to my onboard sound

<LoudMouthMan> tsmithe . but theres no harm . in being assured. or maybe im just cranky old guy .

<willskills> CK804 is my onboard card

<tsmithe> LoudMouthMan, hehe

<LoudMouthMan> plus .. what he said <grin>

<willskills> :)

<LoudMouthMan> id be tempted to try the microphone in either socket just out of interest.

<willskills> yeah, well

<willskills> in my asound.state

<willskills> you think it's safe to delete the CK804 stuff?

<willskills> just keep from state.Live {

<willskills> down

<willskills> I have tried all the mic ports btw :)

<LoudMouthMan> its always safe if you make a backup of the file !

<willskills> :)

<willskills> ofc

<willskills> haha

<LoudMouthMan> well better to have tried and failed, then never tried at all but I need to take a break willskills and cook some dinner for the family . back in a while.

<willskills> ok sure, thanks very much for your help LoudMouthMan

<cinex> anyone know where to get simcity 3000 from ?

<cinex> linux version

<Norf-ubu> have you tried Amazon ?

<cinex> yeah. all sold out. not even any 3rd party re-seller type chaps

<cinex> e-bay - no show

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Phil Bull: Feisty feature of the day #4 - Get help. Fast. <http://philbull.livejournal.com/26262.html>

<Norf-ubu> http://www.tuxgames.com/details.cgi?gameref=18&referrer=happypenguin

<Norf-ubu> and in stock :D

<cinex> nice

<cinex> 24 quid? I bought the windows version for £1

<Norf-ubu> when its out of stick - its a £1 as well :|

<Norf-ubu> stock*

<popey> moo

<Norf-ubu> i see your moo and raise you a bark

<cinex> 26.6174 GBP delivered TO the u k

<cinex> uk

<Norf-ubu> for something so rare - bargain!

<cinex> yah but what if its like all the windows disks that crc erros on the exact same part of the disk

<popey> mooooooo

<cinex> and with wine and t he windows version it crashes when I try to save it

<cinex> :'(

<Norf-ubu> </looks quizzically at popey>

* cinex needs a fix

<tsmithe> popey, are you around?

<popey> tsmithe: yes

<tsmithe> can i ask you a favour?

<tsmithe> (as i don't feel comfortable as a middle-man)

<popey> heh

<popey> you can ask

<tsmithe> popey, would it be ok if someone looking to do (somewhat "flashy") screencasting pings you?

<popey> of course!

<popey> I *want* people to :)

<tsmithe> ok then :)

<tsmithe> expect a /msg from adamant1988

<willskills> hey guys

<willskills> I just had a mate drop round

<willskills> with a logitech usb headset, I just ordered one

<willskills> eliminates the problem ><

<tsmithe> \o/?

<willskills> it works like "out of the box"

<deiaccord> hmm, any hints on how to update my nvidia kernel module to match the x module?

<deiaccord> tried installing the drivers..seemed to work but complained after te 2nd reboot :(

<deiaccord> so text mode it is for me for a while!

<popey> deiaccord: what changed?

<popey> and where did you install the drivers from? the repository or from nvidia.com?

<deiaccord> from nvidia

<popey> what version of ubuntu?

<deiaccord> drivers are version 1.0--9755, kernel module is 1.0-7184

<deiaccord> 6.10, edgy

<popey> what made you choose to get the driver from nvidia.com?

<deiaccord> seemed the obvious choice at the time :)

<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia

<popey> its a bad idea I am afraid :)

<popey> follow that how-to

<deiaccord> happy with that...just need the get it working anyhow to start with

<deiaccord> any other way to recover for now, using apt maybe?

<popey> no

<popey> well

<popey> yes

<popey> but you really are better of fixing it properly

<popey> you need to uninstall the binary driver

<popey> i think the nvidia install script you get from nvidia.com has an uninstaller

<popey> you need to check the readme that comes with it

<deiaccord> I'll do the 'proper' waywhatever that it :)

<deiaccord> binary uninstalled

<popey> cool

<deiaccord> install via apt-get next (sorry, using irc on my phone and hard doing full browsing in lynx)

<deiaccord> ?

<popey> heh

<popey> sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`

* LoudMouthMan admites the command line text and wonders how would he do that in a gui ( not that he would but it proves his point <grin>)

<LoudMouthMan> admires even .

<popey> running feisty here with nvidia cards I have to type that a lot :)

<popey> hence knowing it

<deiaccord> i much prefer a command line. started back in dos 5 days....but my memory of linux cmmds is still a bit fuzzy!

<deiaccord> I already know my grub script mostly by heart thougn :)

<popey> :)

<popey> command line rules :)

<deiaccord> hmm. edit xorg.conf or start gdm?

<LoudMouthMan> i thought the comment in my blog that everything can be done in a gui was a bit sweeping though. it seems better to say each has its strengths , only people keep ignoring command line strenghts.

<willskills> lol guys

<LoudMouthMan> snigger girls

<willskills> I am now 100% completely and utterly in love with my ubuntu install <3

<popey> deiaccord: no

<LoudMouthMan> no ? are we not playign that game ?

<willskills> we can :D

* willskills LoudMouthMan tags LoudMouthMan

<popey> sudo nvidia-glx-config enable

<popey> or edit xorg.conf

<popey> :)

<popey> then restart gdm

<popey> sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart

<LoudMouthMan> <voice style=camp> Oh I am so IT! </voice>

<deiaccord> would like to learn what to edit...if poss

<popey> deiaccord: sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf

<popey> actually

<deiaccord> did back in 1999/2000 but that was a while ago now

<popey> you wont need to change it

<LoudMouthMan> well welcome to our side of the pond willskills glad we could all pitch in and help.

<popey> it already has nvidia in it

<popey> deiaccord: just restart gdm

<willskills> well, yeah, that's what I love

<willskills> you get stuck, you get help

<willskills> it's simple

<deiaccord> i'll add the extra display modes later then :)

<popey> there was a nice support ticket today from a windows person

<popey> yeah deiaccord

<LoudMouthMan> yeah but unlike windows the places to go find help are wider, deeper and further than people have come to expect.

<popey> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/4159

<popey> check out that support ticket

<willskills> well, for a start, people that use linux are very active in irc

<willskills> windows, some, but not many

<willskills> like, I play world of warcraft (iknow I know)

<popey> :)

<willskills> but, many of the people that play that have no idea

<popey> wow works on linux you know? :)

<willskills> I play it on linux :)

<willskills> :D

<popey> \o/

<popey> You win a prize!

<popey> Your prize is!

<willskills> will lvl 70 mage @ shadowmoon :o

<popey> Smug satisfaction..

<LoudMouthMan> actually if he plays WoW you should say

<willskills> yes indeed

<LoudMouthMan> Ping Level 70

<deiaccord> lol same error, divverendninstalled driver version now :)

* LoudMouthMan stays away from MMoRG and the vein . they are to addictive for me .

<willskills> me too :)

<deiaccord> different installed version, 1.0-8776 this time

<deiaccord> agree on mmorpg being addictive

<deiaccord> muds were just as bad back in the day too

<willskills> I dont like lvling a char

<willskills> or grinding crap

<willskills> I am pvp whore

<willskills> :(

<popey> deiaccord: can you give the full error message?

<popey> and did it install linux-restricted-modules-2.blahblah?

<deiaccord> Error: API mismatch: the NVIDIA kernel module has the version 1.0-7184, but this X module has the version 1.0-8776.

<deiaccord> seemed to, will retry that one though

<LoudMouthMan> well i play online multiplayers but limit time to games which play in short bursts. and sheesh I was D&Ding and LaRPing as a teen so ive just about done my Gnome fetish to death.

<popey> LoudMouthMan: have you seen DEFCON?

<LoudMouthMan> seen it yes, played it no ? does it multiplay , quickly ?

<popey> yes

<popey> http://www.everybody-dies.com/

<LoudMouthMan> oooh maybe

<popey> 10 quid

<popey> value for money :)

<popey> and native linux version

<popey> its just like war games :)

<LoudMouthMan> nostalgia eh popey , I guess it aint what it used to be .

<LoudMouthMan> ooooh .its risk2010 ?

<daviey> popey, have you heard the the latest lugradio episode?

<popey> no, why?

<daviey> haha

<daviey> jump to 13 mins in

<popey> ok

<daviey> or 12:45

<popey> just grabbing it now

* popey can guess what this is about

<popey> a manky old coat?

<daviey> nope

* popey listens

<popey> holy cow, 2 hours

<popey> haha

<popey> was that it?

<popey> bah

<popey> :)

<daviey> "screw you popey"

<popey> :)

<daviey> thats notability, that is

<popey> heh

<popey> there is a good reason for that :)

<willskills> guys - quick last question for a while probably !

<LoudMouthMan> popey . really ? what was that then ?

<willskills> I want to install ventriloctrl-0.3

<willskills> I was a tar.gz, so I extracted

<willskills> it has a makefile and stuff

<daviey> don't do a "make install"

<willskills> yeah

<willskills> it says that install not supported yet

<willskills> so just do what?

<cinex> ./configure && make

<cinex> ?

<cinex> or just make

<daviey> http://np1.pp.fi/ventriloctrl/ is that it?

<willskills> yeah

<willskills> ok lots of errors :)

<popey> it says what to do in the readme

<popey> # make

<popey> ./runctrl.sh

<willskills> I did make

<willskills> but got lots of errors

<popey> pastebin the errors

<popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/ :)

<popey> i just compiled it here fine

<daviey> hmm... make worked here

<willskills> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/16

<popey> have you ever compiled anything on that box?

<willskills> ah - no

<willskills> not on this install - doh :)

<daviey> buildessentials

<popey> yeah

<popey> sudo apt-get install build-essential

<LoudMouthMan> i was about to ask ?

<LoudMouthMan> essentials eh ?

<willskills> < idiot today

<daviey> rubbish laptop keyboard

<popey> looks like you need libx11-dev

<willskills> ok

<popey> -lX11

<willskills> pardon?

<popey> that is on the line that fails

<popey> -l == lib

<willskills> did build-essentials

<willskills> ah right

<willskills> ok, thanks popey

<popey> sudo apt-get install libx11-dev I think

<popey> alan@wopr:~$ apt-cache search libx11-dev

<popey> libx11-dev - X11 client-side library (development headers)

<popey> maybe xlibs-dev

<popey> get both

<popey> cant hurt :)

<willskills> guys, in my standard gnome desktop, with metacity

<willskills> can I make windows transparent?

<popey> yes

<popey> but

<popey> its shit

<popey> !ohmy

<ubot3> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.

<willskills> ok, fair play

<popey> its fake transparency

<popey> not real alpha transparency

<willskills> I have beryl installed too

<willskills> but annoying have to switch it on and off

<popey> it takes a picture of your desktop and overlays on top

<willskills> to play WoW :p

<popey> I dont switch 3d off to play games :)

<willskills> my framerate is pitiful if I don't

<willskills> geforce6600gt

<popey> ahhh

<popey> twin 7600GTs :)

<deiaccord> happy with my single version of those

<popey> :)

* popey is greedy

<willskills> wow nice popey

<willskills> lol

<willskills> yeah

<willskills> not greed ^^

<popey> and twin 20" screens :)

<willskills> lovely.

<popey> thats definately greedy

<willskills> I have 1x 19"

<LoudMouthMan> twin 7950 GT here

<willskills> I earn £20/k a year :/

<willskills> :p

<LoudMouthMan> but also playing with 8800s for a laugh.

<daviey> Is it wrong to play ET on a 32" Widescreen telly?

<popey> hah

<popey> ooo ET

<willskills> man

* popey fancies a game of that right now

<popey> jolt5 here I come

<willskills> my flatmate has a 42" plasma as his monitor

<willskills> I should take a photo :p

<willskills> haha

<willskills> it is enormous :(

<popey> \o/ jolt5 is empty

<popey> anyone want a game of ET?

<deiaccord> got a pc at work with 42" plasma attached

<deiaccord> they get HORRIBLE screen burn :S

<willskills> guys; will@willskills:~/games/ventriloctrl-0.3$ make

<willskills> gcc -Wall -O3 -o ventriloctrl ventriloctrl.c -lX11

<willskills> gcc -Wall -O3 -o findkey findkey.c

<daviey> popey, yeah could do

<jamesbrose> popey, I will!

* LoudMouthMan is working for a client who does large scale exhibitions . cant wait to get my hands on the FBig monitors

<daviey> what server?

<popey> jolt5

<daviey> is jolt4 official?

<Norf-ubu> whats ET ?

<popey> Enemy Territrory

<popey> a game

<Norf-ubu> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

<popey> Wolfenstein basically

* popey is in

<Norf-ubu> i saw - didnt install it as I hate being shot at

<Norf-ubu> :P

<jamesbrose> i'll be there in a minute

<popey> hmm

<popey> rebooting

<daviey> Norf-ubu, want the instructions to play?

<Norf-ubu> all guides welcome

<popey> Norf-ubu: shoot things

<daviey> Norf-ubu, http://www.katanoon.nl/ubu-e/install.php

<daviey> It takes a will to dl

<Norf-ubu> may see you in there then - in the mean time have fun!

<popey> jamesbrose: et is failing to start

<jamesbrose> :/ why?

<popey> hunk_allocatetempmemory: failed on 3528308

<daviey> ahh, you need to set the memory

<daviey> how much ram do you have?

<popey> 2g

<daviey> hmm - not that theen

<jamesbrose> hmmmm, mums apple crumble <3

<daviey> I had that problem on 512mb - but went with 1g

<popey> i have not set it in et

<popey> will try that

<Norf-ubu> 13 mins - not to bad for a download

<daviey> popey, http://www.borgclan.com/ftopict-1284.html

<popey> i think its one of the mods i have

<daviey> oic, aimbots

<popey> no

<popey> heh

<popey> ooo

<popey> its redownloading the one I just deleted :S

<daviey> whats the ip for jolt5? Can't see it in the official list

<popey> YAY!

<popey> I'm in

<popey> 82.133.85.21

<LoudMouthMan> is there a TS server for this also ?

<daviey> i need to write it down grr

<popey> daviey: i install xqf

<daviey> xqf?

<popey> and then search for it, add it to faves :)

<popey> frontend

<popey> nobody joining then?

<daviey> hmm

<daviey> with that IP - xqf says it's down

<popey> 82.133.85.21:27950

<popey> you dont need to use ip

<popey> just list all ET servers

<jayteeuk> Evening all.

<popey> it will be in the list

<popey> join another with people on if you like

<popey> you choose one, i will join you

<jayteeuk> Hey willskills, did you sort out your sound problem?

<willskills> yeah

<willskills> I am borrowing a mates headset :p

<willskills> it worked great out of the box

<jayteeuk> Well that's one solution. :-P

<willskills> now talking in vent in my wow raid :>

<willskills> dulcet scottish tones :P

<willskills> brb

<popey> xqf also has a nice "find player" feature where it scans the servers looking for your mates :)

<jamesbrose> popey, you still on et?

<popey> trying to find a good serve

<popey> you pick one, i will join

<jamesbrose> Ok, I'll have to go on, find one, tell you, come off, then go back on

<jamesbrose> I mean

<jamesbrose> nevermind lol

<daviey> grr

<daviey> it's taking ages to do a get - halfway through it keeps crashing out

<popey> heh

<popey> want to try another night jamesbrose ?

<popey> we should do this on wednesday

<popey> on the lugradio server

<daviey> yes!

<daviey> Do you prefer ET or TC:E?

<willskills> hey guys :)

<willskills> right, hehe

<willskills> so I dont have wow sound

<willskills> although im starting wow and vent with aoss

<willskills> and starting vent before I start wow

<willskills> ventriloctrl works great though

<jayteeuk> I had no end of trouble getting my mic to work.

<willskills> well mine is working great :)

<willskills> borrow one

<willskills> hehe

<willskills> +ed

<jayteeuk> In the end I think Skype might have been part of the problem, but I also needed to use files from /dev/snd/ instead of /dev/dsp I think.

<willskills> :)

<willskills> skype works fine too

<willskills> was just talking to my bro

<jayteeuk> Once I quit this job I'll be ditching Skype anyway, so I'm not so worried about that.

<Bjwebb> hi there, just wondered if anyone belonging to MANLUG was here

<jayteeuk> I know that's possibly a bad attitude to have, but I'd rather use Free software.

<daviey> and a application that doesn't steal bandwidth?

<jayteeuk> Well, that too.

<jayteeuk> Or at least that I can hack the code to in order to disable such behaviour.

<daviey> Also, didn't somebody find an anomaly with some of the traffic?

<daviey> Providing CPU id back to skype - or something

<jayteeuk> I think a group in China claimed to have reverse-engineered the encryption.

<daviey> wasn't that a lie?

<jayteeuk> Then there was the situation with non-Intel CPUs being limited to a certain number of conversations or something.

<jayteeuk> Then someone noticed it seemed to be probing their BIOS.

<jayteeuk> It's a nasty piece of work and no mistake.

<jayteeuk> But unfortunately, no matter how much I try to convince my colleagues that there are better alternatives out there, they're hell bent on sticking with Skype.

<daviey> yep - same with jabber; people don't want another IM'er

<jayteeuk> Just one of many reasons why I need to get out of this place -- the people I work with just don't grok Free software.

<jayteeuk> I did kill off my ICQ account a few months back.

<jayteeuk> So I'm just left with MSN.

<jamesbrose> popey, yeah.. I have to go now anyway

<popey> :)

<daviey> I tried to convince my place to get SVN. Instead we got Microsoft SourceSafe. With SVN we could have mirror'd two machines (US & UK) Instead we have to do a get from US and it takes over an hour for a full one

<jayteeuk> But Jabber is my main IM protocol.

<jayteeuk> Oh, you have that nasty piece of software too?

<jayteeuk> I wasn't as advanced as SVN, I was trying to go with CVS.

<jayteeuk> I was told that they'd be using VSS because CVS is "dangerous".

<daviey> grr

<jayteeuk> They didn't like the fact that two people could edit the same file at the same time...

<jayteeuk> Even when CVS seamlessly merged the two versions.

<Seeker`> SVN isn't ready for "proper" use IMO

<daviey> I can see the argument tho. If you make a significant change then its rubbish

<Seeker`> i keep on having problems with it when I use it

<Seeker`> as do other people i know

<jayteeuk> IMHO development using CVS just requires some discipline.

<jayteeuk> And that doesn't sit well with the mindset here. Far too laid back and haphazard.

<jayteeuk> It's a shame, because the projects I'm working on could be a lot of fun.

<daviey> tortoisesvn looks very nice IMHO

<jayteeuk> I take it that's like TortoiseCVS but for SVN?

<daviey> guess so - haven't used either

<daviey> but seems you can 'lock' files

<jayteeuk> CVS lets you lock files I think, "edits" I think it calls them. I don't know how it works though, I've never had a situation where I've needed to use it.

<daviey> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/TortoiseSVN.png

<daviey> http://silverstr.ufies.org/images/tortoisesvn-shot.jpg <- Logo's showing if the file is current

<jayteeuk> Yep, looks a lot like TortoiseCVS.

<daviey> Looks better than what we have

<daviey> plus i wanted to get my teeth into making the server

<daviey> What do you think of bazaar?

<jayteeuk> I haven't used it yet.

<jayteeuk> I really need to give it a try.

<daviey> Only started using it last week myself

<daviey> the only thing i can't work out - is how to discard changes and re-get - without doing a full get

<jayteeuk> How similar is it to other revision control systems?

<daviey> seems similar

<daviey> supports http, ftp, sftp nicely

<jayteeuk> And Python-powered, yes?

<daviey> yes

<jayteeuk> I assume from the fact that you use revision control systems that you're hacking code in some capacity?

<daviey> @ work or home?

<jayteeuk> Either/both. :)

<daviey> home, i'm trying to get more into it. I'm currently working with mythtv packages

<daviey> submitted my first universe package over the weekend

<jayteeuk> I'm supposed to be a full-time Java programmer, but to be honest I can't remember the last time I did any really serious development.