<Norf-ubu> aka essentials

<jayteeuk> Every now and then it's good to treat yourself.

<jayteeuk> On a totally unrelated topic... would anyone be interested in acting as a backup MX for my three domains?

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: Myth Takes <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/142888.html> || Adam McMaster: Geany <http://moosoft.net/text/geany/>

<jayteeuk> I'll take that as a no then. :-P

<jayteeuk> And on that note, I think it's time for bed.

<Norf-ubu> if I had the resources, it would be a pleasure

<jayteeuk> I feel as though I'm beginning to build up a bit of a portfolio of contributions to tickets (even though my karma is still pretty low).

<jayteeuk> And I'm making occasional contributions on here and the mailing list... signed up to test the Launchpad beta.

<jayteeuk> I suppose at some point tomorrow I should update my Wiki page to reflect all this in support of a future application for membership.

<jayteeuk> But now I'm goint to sleep soundly with a nice warm fuzzy feeling. :)

<jayteeuk> Night all!

<Norf-ubu> adios

<balor> popey: you alive? I need to borrow your Edgy Qemu image, pretty please.

<balor> Or if anyone has a spare Ubuntu Qemu image I'd appreciate it.

<popey> heh

<popey> I have many qemu images, yes

<popey> how do you want to borrow it balor ?

<balor> popey: I was thinking I could download a copy from somewhere and replace it with a beer sometime if possible?

<popey> how soon do you need it?

<balor> popey: ASAP as usual...got a class tomorrow (I'm a lecturer) and I need to give it to students.

<popey> heh

<popey> it will take some time for me to upload it somewhere

<popey> I'll bzip it up first

<balor> I've got a box you can ssh it to if you need space

<popey> ok

<popey> one mo

<X3N> where do you lecture balor ?

<popey> wont it be quicker to install one yourself?

<popey> it takes about an hour

<X3N> oh hi Adrian

<balor> X3N: Uni of Brighton. I think we know each other

<X3N> yeah, didn't know your nick though :)

<balor> popey: probably not. I'll get it wrong :)

<popey> heh

<X3N> coming to Guadec balor ?

<balor> X3N: yeah, planning to go at the moment.

<popey> can I ask how you knew I had edgy qemu images?

<balor> popey: your blog :)

<popey> ahhh

<popey> :)

<balor> popey: you're a lifesaver

<popey> heh

<popey> i need to spark it up and figure out if I know the password first :)

<balor> lol

<X3N> you know we moved gnome-uk 's channel here a while back balor ?

<popey> date stamp on it is 3/12/06

<X3N> (if you're interested)

<balor> X3N: no, I didn't

<popey> you definately need edgy?

<popey> not feisty or dapper or kubuntu or edubuntu?

<balor> popey: edgy or dapper or feisty. newest being the best.

<X3N> are you going to burn them onto lots of cds ?

<balor> popey: would you mind if I changed the r00t passwd and put them up for general download?

<popey> sure

<popey> its gpl

<popey> I cant mind :)

<balor> X3N: nah, share them on the *ducks* windows share

<X3N> fair enough

<balor> popey: It's only polite to ask :) Manners never costs anything.

<popey> glad you said that

<popey> I had a run in with someone today about that

<popey> he had copyed a whole page from my blog and pasted into his google-ad ridden copy/paste-fest

<popey> i complained that he took the whole article and was making money out of it

<popey> he tried to tell me that he was driving traffic to my site..

<popey> he said I had got 1200 hits from him

<popey> which I had not

<popey> I got about 90

<balor> popey: your blog isn't under a CC licence afaik so that's simply copyright infringement

<popey> well, theres that

<popey> and its just rude

<popey> :)

<popey> booting vm

<popey> do you have a box I can scp it directly to?

<popey> or do you want me to upload it to my server and you can wget it?

<balor> popey: yeah, I thought I pm'ed you the details

<X3N> logged into nickserv ?

<balor> X3N: probably not

<popey> or email alan@popey.com

<popey> \o/ two goes to get the password

<balor> lol....mailed you those details

<popey> lol, got it

<popey> just testing

<popey> cool, plenty of space

<balor> yeah

<balor> crappy box though

<popey> user/pass in the vm is ubuntu

<popey> do you have qemu working well, with kqemu?

<balor> popey: not with kqemu yet

<popey> kqemu is easy to setup

<balor> popey: but otherwise it's sweet

<popey> wget http://qemu.org/kqemu-1.3.0pre11.tar.gz

<popey> tar zxvf kqemu-1.3.0pre11.tar.gz

<popey> cd kqemu-1.3.0pre11

<popey> ./configure

<popey> make

<popey> sudo make install

<popey> job done

<X3N> talking of vms, hows the new vm server coming on for

<X3N> enter key got stuck

<balor> lol

<popey> wont be available for a couple of weeks

<popey> he has run out of space - too popular :)

<popey> so commissioning a new server

<popey> plus, I have higher priority work for him

<popey> lug.org.uk has bought a new server

<popey> and we really need him to work on that one first

<popey> if I buy him a curry he might :)

<balor> The kqemu source is in feisty, must download....

<popey> works much better with kqemu

<popey> I have been benchmarking it today :)

<balor> What convinced francois to GPL it in the end?

<popey> every other vm on the planet (bar vmware and parallels) is open?

<popey> xen, virtualbox, kvm ..

<popey> a friend of mine is convinced he was paid

<popey> cant remember who said that

<popey> it was over beer in fosdem

<balor> Well xen and kvm both use the qemu device model...so if I was someone with money, I'd pay him.

<popey> yeah

<X3N> are there any benchmarks for vmware vs qemu ?

<popey> no

<popey> you cant

<popey> the license for vmware forbids it

<X3N> 0_o ?

<popey> i shit you not

<popey> the license for vmware forbids you publishing benchmarks

<popey> at least it always did

<popey> I have not checked it recently

<popey> try googling for some :)

<X3N> found some

<popey> unless they have to see them first or something?

<popey> dunno

<popey> as I say, not read it recently

<popey> I dont like vmware anyway

<X3N> it's not like anyone reads the licence anyway

<daviey> Your also not allowed to benchmark MS Visual studio's compiler

<popey> yeah, but if you rely on vmware for your job, and you publish stats, they could revoke your license and thus make it hard to do your job

<popey> the perils of proprietary software eh?

<popey> balor: still bzipping up

<X3N> hmm vmplayer and qemu seem to be about even until you enable kqemu, then kqemu kicks ass

<popey> and virtual box is even faster :)

<balor> popey: excellent.....rubs fingers together

<daviey> can you use vmware's vmx's with virtual box?

<popey> daviey: i dont know, I dont use vmware :)

<popey> i doubt it

<popey> they have their own format

<popey> i guess in the future there may be conversion tools

<popey> or someone might add it to qemu-img (convert)

<X3N> the vmx would be easy to port, just the vmdk's would be difficult

<popey> yes

<popey> qemu does vmdks

<daviey> grr. I only use a virtual machine for the occasional time i need win32. Ie once a year. I cba to re-install it on a new machine

<popey> daviey: you use vmware?

<popey> ask someone who has a windows install to make a copy for you ;)

<daviey> occasionally at home. work uses it more tho

<daviey> bah, take a snapshot of somebodies infested machine..... naa

<popey> o_O

<popey> fair enough

<popey> i meant someone who has a windows install (in a vm)

<X3N> you could snapshot your own vm then reinstall it

<X3N> by ghosting it bascially

<popey> thats a bloody good idea :)

* popey wonders how long this is going to take to bzip

<popey> and then upload to you balor :S

<daviey> i could do that. currently i'm using vmplayer at home - and would rather get away from it. I think thats the only !FOSS thing i have installed

<balor> lol

<X3N> i have the nvidia drivers installed

<X3N> and i use vmplayer

<balor> I buy Intel these days

<popey> i have nvidia drivers and some games

<popey> but i draw the line at vmware :)

<X3N> flash player

<popey> yeah, that too

<popey> and java

* balor an flash plaver have a hate-hate relationship

<popey> (before it was gpl)

<popey> heheh

<X3N> oh yeah and i've got ut and quake

<X3N> people use flash baddly too oftern for me to like it

<balor> I've got pre-GPL Java and some firmware for my Intel wireless card.

<X3N> The shadow chancellor's website is a very good example of what he was talking against today

<popey> \o/ finished bzipping

<popey> copy started

<balor> w00t!

<popey> uploading at 50K/s :S

<popey> says ~3 hours to go

<DaveMorris> a while then, I hope neither of you are staying up

<balor> I can barely stay awake as is

<balor> Was doing 100m sprints at training todat

<DaveMorris> pitch was drier then

<balor> no, used the running track

<DaveMorris> no mor yoga then?

<balor> lol...no

<DaveMorris> ;)

<popey> i have to be at work at 6am

<popey> I might burn all these vms onto a dvd or something

<balor> popey: what size is it, so that I know if it's all good and stuff

<popey> I have a usb hard disk with a full mirror of every repository in ubuntu

<balor> lol

<DaveMorris> damm thats big

<DaveMorris> balor: why not have a md5 sum of the image

<popey> 30G per release or so

<popey> gets bigger with each release

* popey md5sums it

<balor> DaveMorris: I can't monitor the progress of an MD5 sum :)

<balor> DaveMorris: I can of a file size

<popey> 718334010

<balor> popey: thanks a lot

<popey> (bytes)

<popey> :)

<popey> no probs

<popey> balor: i have to be at work at 6am, so will be up early, hopefully after this has finished

<popey> if it balls up I will start it again with a new name

<balor> you're a star

<popey> wouldnt surprise me if it is still going at 5am

<popey> i am on ntl

<popey> you never know what might happen :)

* tsmithe wonders what popey is doing

<DaveMorris> uploading his pron stash

<popey> heh

<popey> tsmithe: scping a big file to balor

<DaveMorris> 00:29:58) popey: 718334010 the number of films ;)

<Norf-ubu> someone mention porn ?

<popey> hahah

<popey> hilight word there Norf-ubu ?

<Norf-ubu> hell yeah

<DaveMorris> my clocks wrong again :(

<tsmithe> popey, ahh

<DaveMorris> its set to sync with the net, but always drifts

<balor> DaveMorris: you may need to replace your battery then

<balor> i.e. the CMOS power source

<DaveMorris> yeah I'll find one somewhere

<popey> what do you teach balor ?

<balor> popey: computer science and software engineering in general

<balor> popey: graphics, software architecture, testing and some other subjects specifically

<popey> cool

<balor> not on this salary :)

<DaveMorris> your always moaning :P

<dsas> lecturers always do!

* popey sometimes wishes he went to uni

<dsas> now I've insulted you balor I was just about to ask you if you were interested in Guadec marketing, but you've already volunteered :)

<balor> yup

<DaveMorris> popey: to study or work?

<popey> study

<DaveMorris> you'd of only aced the course since you seem to know more than myself and the people I went to uni with, which means you can apply yourself to the course

<popey> hah

<popey> i am 35 though

<popey> some years of experiecen

<popey> I am not academic though

<DaveMorris> true, but I've seen some right muppets that where on my courses pass

<balor> I'm a crusty old grumbly academic at 26

<popey> heh

* tsmithe is 15 and should be asleep

<popey> yeah, sleep beckons

<balor> tsmithe: go to bed or I'll tell your mum

<popey> bugger, bin day tomorrow

<popey> haha

<balor> popey: goodnight, and thanks

<DaveMorris> you'll have to get up even earlier

<popey> np

<DaveMorris> I need to goto bed, but don't feel tired yet!

<dsas> popey: bin day for me too. I forgot until you said.

* dsas should go and throw the rubbish out.

<balor> kqemu is da bomb

<popey> :)

<balor> popey: go to bed!

<popey> hehe

<popey> I do this

<popey> I say I am going to bed

<popey> then hang around for hours

<popey> wishing i had

<balor> you mean you lurk in chatrooms in the middle of the night?

<popey> er

<popey> on advice of council I decline to answer

<balor> lol

<popey> the edgy system is a month or two out of date so you probably want to boot it up and update it

<balor> ok thanks

<popey> ~20 % done

<Norf-ubu> is there a Fiesty .iso yet ?

<popey> it is not out yet

<Norf-ubu> :(

*** stdin_ is now known as stdin

<popey> there are beta releases

<Norf-ubu> yeah, i updated, but i have "issues"

<Norf-ubu> so was going to do a re-install, i'll wait

<dsas> running pbuilder to be a package that build-deps on half of GNOME and firefox isn't fun :(

<balor> Is there a text mode installer for dapper?

<dsas> balor: Yeah, you want the "alternative" cd

<balor> IT's ok. I remembered how to use Google

<popey> $morning

<GazzaK> Morning.... Any ideas on what to buy a fellow geek for a leaving gift? £50-£60, PC World is my only local computer place...

<popey> morning

<popey> you need to buy it today?

<GazzaK> yes

<GazzaK> always good for last minute rush eh

<GazzaK> damn them!

<GazzaK> and me being the office geek - the job is mine

<GazzaK> brb

<mrben> morning all

<popey> yo

<popey> FRIDAY!

<Seeker`> morning

<popey> yo

<Seeker`> how are you?

<popey> tickety boo!

* balor awakes

<popey> morning

<popey> looks like it finished

* balor pulls himself up to his full 11ft height and pledges to forever defend emperor popey from the legions of the n00b.

<popey> lol

<balor> popey: It's getting a development makeover as we speak

<popey> oh it works?

<popey> cool, you dont need the md5sums then :)

<Seeker`> popey: What is finished?

<balor> Seeker`: Mr Blair's life

<popey> i sent balor a qemu image of edgy

* balor has had 3 hours sleep

<popey> it took $time to scp

<Seeker`> balor: 3 hours sleep isn't good

<jayteeuk> Morning all.

<popey> moo

<jayteeuk> Baa

<jayteeuk> It's the Ubuntu UKTeam farm!

<jayteeuk> So are today's papers awash with headlines about open source then?

<popey> hahaha

<popey> dream on

<jayteeuk> It'll happen some time.

<jayteeuk> If people keep banging on about it.

<jayteeuk> Maybe we need a good scandal.

<jayteeuk> "Government could have used Free software for this project -- but instead blew PRIVMSG #ubuntu-uk :Anyway, my computer needs a reboot... brb

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Paul Mellors: Debian <http://www.paulmellors.net/2007/03/09/debian/>

<daviey> mornin'

<daviey> Anybody here use first direct?

<jayteeuk> Is it just me, or has Feisty boot time significantly shortened in the last couple of days?

<popey> i find feisty very quick to boot on my laptop

<popey> not noticed especially the last few days, but in general

<daviey> popey, are you connected via lan?

<popey> connected to what?

<popey> my computer has lan connections :)

<popey> I dont

<daviey> haha

<daviey> no i mean, on my laptop the networking isn't backgrounding and causes a noticeable delay

<daviey> it's significantly faster when using a wired connection

<popey> my laptop is on a lan, yes

<popey> i have not timed the difference between it being connected and not

<popey> you using network manager?

<daviey> nm-applet - yes

<dsas> it shouldn't try to bring up the network until after log-in then should it?

<daviey> but when i connect to work wlan i need to kill nm-applet and manually run wpa-supplicant!

<popey> ahh, wpa

<popey> i dont use that

<jayteeuk> I noticed a discussion in #ubuntu-bugs last night about nm and ntp.

<daviey> it's a real pain as i want to use nm-applet to vpn back to home

<dsas> ntp tries to update the time on boot and it can't because the network is brought up later?

<jayteeuk> ntpdate and/or ntpd fails because there's no network until n-m has brought it up.

<jayteeuk> There are scripts in if-up.d that should handle it but the ntp one apparently just exits.

<jayteeuk> However, removing the line that does that didn't fix the problem, so someone was taking a better look at it.

<jayteeuk> I did notice at one stage (probably in Edgy) that my boot process seemed to hang while ntpdate/ntpd timed out due to lack of network.

<dsas> that happened in breezy and hoary too. Thought it got solved for dapper.

<jayteeuk> This would have been a couple of weeks ago.

<jayteeuk> It'd go through the boot process with usplash, then drop out to a console screen for a few seconds, then GDM would start.

<jayteeuk> I brought up a console and did a ps -efw and sure enough one of the ntp processes was there -- when I killed it, GDM came up immediately.

<dsas> hm, weird. Sounds like a regression, I can't remember the last time that happened. But I've been running feisty for ~5 months

<jayteeuk> Since say one then? :)

<dsas> pretty much, I think I waited a fortnight or so.

<dsas> bah, I'm at 90% of disk space on my server again :(

* dsas goes on a mail deleting rampage.

<daviey> I think i read that it had to drop out of usplash as gdm had to start from a blank console, or something

<jayteeuk> Possibly -- it does usually drop out to a console screen anyway, with just a flashing cursor in the top-left, but that lasts maybe three seconds.

<jayteeuk> When I see the other problem, it's usually around 20 seconds or so.

*** jono_ is now known as jono

<jayteeuk> Can anyone tell me which file in /proc I need to look at to tell me what CPU frequency scaling governor I'm using?

<jayteeuk> It's not under /proc. :)

<jayteeuk> It's /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor

<daviey> awesome "ondemand"

<jayteeuk> Same here.

<jayteeuk> While I'm on AC I could probably get away with "performance".

<daviey> oww. let me unplug and try

<daviey> what the hell...... no change. i feel ripped off

<DaveMorris> did you pay for the software?

<DaveMorris> ;)

<daviey> i paid for the hardware ;)

<daviey> I think the bios is set to not change

<jayteeuk> Mine does the same daviey.

<jayteeuk> I feel as though it should switch to powersave.

<daviey> Has anybody, ever, been pleased that their power connection is on the left of the laptop? It's always in the way

<dsas> I have power on the left and network on the right. one of them is always in the way.

<Seeker`> i have power and network at the back

* daviey wishes he was Seeker`

<daviey> life would be good then

<daviey> My daughter tripped on my cable the other day and bent the connector. grr

<Seeker`> have you thought about getting a new one?

<jayteeuk> I have network on the left and power on the right

<daviey> Seeker`, only had this laptop 1 month

<jayteeuk> The only connectors I have on the back are S-video, DVI and dock.

<daviey> i have no connectors on the back. All side

<Seeker`> daviey: I meant the daughter :P

<daviey> bah! must be joking, too much work

<daviey> Right, Who is putting the kettle on?

<jayteeuk> Sorry, you just missed it.

<jayteeuk> I did ask, you obviously weren't listening.

<daviey> doh

* gord has coffee -_-

* jayteeuk has both.

<jayteeuk> Not in the same cup.

<jayteeuk> Not at the same time.

<jayteeuk> Well, not always.

<gord> wish I had choc-chip cookies, shop is at least 100m away though

<jayteeuk> Woo, PCPlus taking a look at Feisty Herd 3.

<gord> why not herd 5?

<daviey> Oh great - so they will complain about all the bugs no doubt

<jayteeuk> "In all, we expect April's Feisty Fawn release to live up to the high standards set by previous versions of Ubuntu. The steep learning curve is mostly levelled in Feisty. Once released, it promises to be easy enough for those new to Linux while remaining stable and flexible enough to draw the sandals and beard crowd."

<jayteeuk> "With Network Manager, Ubuntu is now a viable OS choice for laptop users."

<jayteeuk> gord: Probably because the article was prepared months ago.

<treb0r> sandals and beard?

<jayteeuk> Or possibly not that long -- there's reference to Compiz and Beryl not being default features. When was that announced?

<jayteeuk> treb0r: RMS. :)

<daviey> compiz is default aint it?

<treb0r> surely RMS wouldn't be seen dead using ubuntu

<jayteeuk> treb0r: You're probably right, not with proprietary drivers anyway.

<jayteeuk> daviey: It might be installed, but I don't think it's enabled by default.

<daviey> true

<jayteeuk> Not stable enough.

<treb0r> any idae if berly /compiz will work with my old ati radeon m9, without extra config in feisty?

<treb0r> idea

<jayteeuk> No idea I'm afraid.

<treb0r> be nice if it did. i really like that, what's it called, when you hit and f key and all the windows shrink down

<daviey> treb0r, possibly - if have have 3d direct rendering

<treb0r> this laptop kicked ass in the 3d department a few years ago. used to run gta vice city no probs

<treb0r> so a 3d desktop should be no prob

<daviey> treb0r, what does glxinfo | grep direct return?

<gord> beryl tends to run on graphics cards quite well, although it doesn't with mine because the drivers are less than adequate

<daviey> gord, fglrx?

<gord> my card is so old that fglrx don't even support it daviey ;) uses xorgs r128 driver

<daviey> yuk

<daviey> gord, have you tried mesa DRI?

<gord> the problem is that graphics cards are expensive n I barly have enough money to get buy, seems like such a waste

<gord> dri is enabled daviey, the drivers are just rubbish and don't support certain visuals, plus there is a timing issue

<treb0r> is it an ati card?

<gord> rage 128, much older than yours treb0r ;)

<daviey> hey my karma is at an all time high - 4863

<gord> ati rage 128 even

<treb0r> well, nif your works sort of, mine might be ok :)

<gord> well.. it doesn't work at all with compiz/beryl or any other composing manager

<jayteeuk> daviey: To go back to the previous discussion about CPU Frequency scaling, you should take a look at laptop-mode and laptop-mode-tools.

<daviey> apt'ing them now

<jayteeuk> Install those, edit /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf, then sudo /etc/init.d/laptop-mode restart

<jayteeuk> You may need to replace the reference to the "performance" governor with "ondemand" though.

<daviey> What does that do different to gnome's tools?

<jayteeuk> IIRC, gnome-power-manager will use laptop-mode if it's enabled.

<jayteeuk> Plus laptop-mode doesn't require Gnome to be installed or even X to be running -- you can use it even if you only boot into a console.

<daviey> i think i need to change power setting on my bios for it to work

<jayteeuk> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies

<jayteeuk> Should tell you what frequencies you can use.

<daviey> jayteeuk, didn't i tell you that a fortnight ago?

<daviey> :P

<jayteeuk> I wouldn't be surprised. Memory like a sieve. Sorry, who are you again?

<daviey> john

<jayteeuk> Oh, I thought you were Kate. Short for Bob.

<daviey> OO.org 2.2 looks good

<gord> been drinking coffee for longer than I can remember yet I still burn my tongue occasional, I have no capability to learn

<treb0r> daviey: what's notable with OOo 2.2?

<treb0r> I like it, I just wish that it would run faster..

<daviey> no much really; just the look & feel

<treb0r> i see - have they redone it then?

<daviey> http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2897/screenshot2pm2.png

<daviey> Just the buttons look cleaner

<daviey> Oh and the splash on start is brown instead of blue

<popey> tango!

<gord> looks like it would integrate with the desktop look better than other versions, its still a bit too much for me though, abiword does the job

<daviey> abiword IMHO is good for win32 converts, but it lacks certain features that makes OOo rock

<gord> I thought the whole point of Open Office was that it was a free software microsoft office?

<treb0r> I got OOo talking to MySQL the other day - very cool for mail merges etc..

<treb0r> the 'fields' function works very well indeed.

<treb0r> hmm, 2.2 does look better

<daviey> gord, I agree - it was; but if it maintains that route it will never be 'as good as' / better. They need to find their own way now

<dsas> I prefer abiword too.

<dsas> oo is slooooooow.

<gord> *shrugs* I never got into open office, never got into office programs at all though, all I need is something to make CV's look purty :)

<dsas> and the buttons are the wrong way round I think the button order was "save | discard | cancel" last time I tried. ick.

<daviey> What annoys me - is no free spreadsheet/excel properly handles VBA

<daviey> macros

<gord> wasn't there a patch for VBA in open office that got put off because of microsoft pushing people around or something?

<popey> gah, I need to prep, giving a talk at my LUG tomorrow

<daviey> gord, it 'alf works - but not well nuff

<daviey> popey, trying to decide if the misses will 'let' me go

<popey> heh

<popey> i am taking wifey out on saturday night, so that gets me brownie points to go to the LUG :)

<daviey> me too - taking her for dinner and some period rubbish film

<daviey> parents are baby sitting - woo

<daviey> popey, what time does the lugmeet kick off - i notice the talks start at 11:30

<popey> http://hants.lug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?10thMarch2007

<popey> When: 10:30 - 16:30, Saturday 10th March 2007

<daviey> doh! top line

<popey> https://answers.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+ticket/3929

<popey> DOH!

<popey> kahuuuna down the bottom

<popey> trying to create a fat partition on /dev/hda :S

<popey> er

<popey> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+ticket/3929

<popey> :)

<CieD> popey, bring your camera

* dsas wonders just how many hantsluggers we have here.

<CieD> oh the odd one or two )

<popey> :)

<popey> CieD: what camera?

<popey> i havent got the canon yet :)

<CieD> No problem, I just wanted a decent piccie of the ubuntu sticker

<popey> heh

<popey> ok, will do

<popey> does that mean you're coming

<CieD> another time, I might just bring the nslu2 along rather than the lappy

<CieD> oh yeah, all booked, leave pass in etc

<Norf-ubu> g'day

<gord> afternoon' *tips hat*

<Norf-ubu> *doffs cap back*

<Norf-ubu> top tip of the day: dont hold the reset button *and* the on/off button at the same time on an SPV M500 phone

<Norf-ubu> it tends to go back to factory settings :|

<popey> hehe

<popey> for anyone who uses compiz/beryl.. http://www.queervisions.com/arch/2007/03/beryl_skydomes.html

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Adam McMaster: Ubuntu UK Team Skills <http://moosoft.net/text/ubuntu-uk-team-skills/>

<Norf-ubu> nice

<gord> :o that guy stole my idea for a background and just animated it! someone call those guy who sue 4 year olds

<bobbicat> i know this isn't a help channel can someone tell me how to get to one

<Norf-ubu> whats the problem bobbicat

<bobbicat> i need advice re kubuntu edgy and konqueror

<dsas> bobbicat: We do help here, where we can.

<bobbicat> yup - someone here helped me once before

<dsas> bobbicat: what advice do you need?

<gord> you can type /join #kubuntu to get to the offical kubuntu channel for support but maybe people here can help too :)

<bobbicat> i'm a novice user

<bobbicat> ty gord - i'll note that

<bobbicat> i've got kubuntu edgy installed

<bobbicat> and i use konqueror as browser etc

<bobbicat> thing is...

<bobbicat> i've lost part of konqueror

<bobbicat> the top bar with location - edit - bookmarks etc

<bobbicat> has vanished

<dsas> have you checked under the bed? ;)

<dsas> bobbicat: I'm not a kubuntu user myself, but is there a view -> toolbars menu in konqueror ?

<bobbicat> well theres a load of fluff and dust under there

<bobbicat> there was...

<bobbicat> dsas

<dsas> that has dissapeared too?

<bobbicat> unfortunately the fluff remains

<Norf-ubu> start up konquerer and press F11 ?

<gord> fluff usually ends up in my belly button, n its always blue too

<Norf-ubu> might be in full screen mode

<bobbicat> i'll give it a shot

<bobbicat> and if i invent a fluff remover should i make it open source?

<Norf-ubu> my ex was a fluff remover - then i found out she was open source.... so not a good idea :((

<gord> share and share alike

<bobbicat> no joy with f 11

<Norf-ubu> hmmmmmmmmm ok- so there isnt a tool bar at all ?

<bobbicat> i think the configuration has got upset somewhere

<gord> can you take a screenshot for us and upload it to imageshack.us ? (take a screenshot by pressing the print screen key)

<bobbicat> not for location edit etc gord

<bobbicat> sure

<Seeker`> my mouse / keyboard keep on freezing

<Norf-ubu> take it out of the fridge <grin>

<dsas> joke.popey.com

<jayteeuk> Has anyone else had problems dragging and dropping messages to folders in Thunderbird?

<bobbicat> gord: i have a problem uploading to imageshack

<Norf-ubu> im not a thunderbirdier... sorry

<dsas> jayteeuk: works for me using the latest feisty version.

<jayteeuk> I wonder if I've disabled something. :S

<jayteeuk> Of course I could do:

<jayteeuk> !worksforme

<ubot3> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.

<jayteeuk> But I know what you mean dsas. :)

<dsas> heh, I wasn't aware of that.

<bobbicat> gord : ok i got it now

<dsas> jayteeuk: People get loads of problems in thunderbird that I can't reproduce though.

<bobbicat> http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6430/snapshotkonqueror1ot5.png

<bobbicat> thats a link to image gord

* gord pokes anyone who uses kde to look at that screenshot

<bobbicat> lol

<bobbicat> want to see what it should look like gord?

<jayteeuk> dsas: I only know about worksforme because popey used it on me. :)

<dsas> jayteeuk: I guess the best thing to is file a bug. Thunderbird seems really flaky though, lots of people get problems other people can't produce.

* jayteeuk loves that Beryl demo.

<dsas> jayteeuk: Perhaps it's worth ensuring all extenstions (if any) are disabled.

<jayteeuk> dsas: Yeah, I'll file the bug... just want to make sure it isn't something stupid that I've done before I do. :)

<jayteeuk> Good point.

<jayteeuk> I'll also try a clean profile.

*** ged_ is now known as ged__

*** ged__ is now known as ged_

<bobbicat> you still around gord?

<gord> Im not a kde user bobbicat, try asking around some more :)

<bobbicat> don't worry - i sorted it

<jayteeuk> Can someone more experienced with the Wiki explain how I can do a rowspan in a table?

<bobbicat> right click on the konqueror window - drop down menu - unhide toolbar

<bobbicat> oops - thanks for the time anyhow gord

<gord> :)

<bobbicat> know where i can get rid of a few sacks of fluff?

<jayteeuk> OK, I think I found something....

<popey> \o/ home

<dsas> jayteeuk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnTables

<Norf-ubu> any luck the mouse/keyboard issue Seeker ?

* dsas makes a "defrosted yet"? joke.

<Norf-ubu> chilblaines ?

<jayteeuk> dsas: Sorted it thanks. Now I'm wondering if it's possible to do image links.

<popey> [http://target http://imageurl]

<jayteeuk> Tried that, except the image URL is a script, not a static file.

<popey> url?

<popey> upload the image to the wiki

<popey> dont link to remote images

<jayteeuk> http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net/img/ubuntu-blogger.php?user=12433

<popey> right click, save as, then upload attachment to your wiki page

<jayteeuk> Is that a policy thing? I was trying to avoid doing that.

<popey> remote linking of images is often considered bad

<popey> even if its tiny like yours :)

<jayteeuk> It's not the size...

<popey> missus

<gord> especially when two weeks later the image has magically disappeared or been replaced with a 'no hotlinking' type thing

<jayteeuk> Where's GazzaK when you need him? :)

<popey> or a goatse

<dsas> the image he's using is specifically for hotlinking...

<popey> yeah

<dsas> I don't think it moin recognises an image unless it ends in .jpg, .png etc.

<popey> yeah, so in this case download/upload is easier

<jayteeuk> I think you're right. I was wondering if there was some notation I could use, like enclosing in double parenths or something, but I can't see anything.

<daviey> If somebody 'hotlinks' one of my images - i will change it to a pawn picture http://www.zeuscmd.com/modelling/images/large/pawn.jpg

<popey> a friend of mine changes the image to a 5000px by 5000px solid red image

<jayteeuk> In RAW format. :)

<popey> actually its better in jpeg because its quick to download, you dont use your own bandwidth

<popey> and firefox on the clients will turn it into a chuffing great pixmap

<jayteeuk> Or return a redirect to http://localhost/....

<daviey> ha - i had a htm file that when used crashes both firefox and iexplorer

<dsas> killing the clients is harsh.

<daviey> especially if self-employed:P

<popey> stops people visiting the offending site

<gord> 5000x5000 would take up a nice and neat 115mb of ram or so, just a small amount compared to firefox anyway :P

<dsas> popey: in the same way witholding aid from palestinians solve the 'hamas problem'

<popey> wooaaahh there dsas

<popey> lets not compare hotlinking with the middle eastern problems eh?

<popey> not on a nice happy friday

<dsas> *grin*, there's a difference between making the bandwidth stealer look silly/bad and taking it out on end-users though.

<daviey> dsas, do you reckon we were being serious?

<daviey> Okay a compromise, a jpg of the same size saying "This picture has been stolen from xxxx"

<gord> I wouldn't say you are taking it out on end users though, its the guy that stole your bandwidth to fuel his own site thats responsible really. especially if you put a big 'hotlink and die' on your own website :)

<dsas> daviey: Something like that is sane. asking firefox to render a 5000px x 5000px file isn't. in my humble opinion.

<daviey> dsas, i wasn't being serious, i doubt popey was. Lets all go to the pub

<popey> but its often users who can help drive the way a website is run

<popey> so if users are affected, thats great because they will help the owner learn

<dsas> i'd imagine that users who point out that the website kills their browser would also point out that "image xyz says it has been stolen".

<gord> I doubt it, more they would see the image and not think anymore about it

<popey> depends how offensive you make the pic

<popey> lemonparty, goatse, tubgirl, theyd all have an "impact"

<daviey> 2DTV Tony Blair

<gord> I don't think I would ever use an image like that, id hate to think that my niece would stumble upon something like that just because someone hotlinked

<daviey> tony blair? is he *that* scary?

<popey> :)

<treb0r> i used to work for a web agency that kept a stash of gay pr0n for use on sites when client's didn't pay invoices on time :)

<DaveMorris> lol

<popey> heheeh

<DaveMorris> not very professional though

<treb0r> it was only a last reort, and I only saw them use it twice

<treb0r> resort

<popey> my isp deletes dns recors when people dont pay up

<treb0r> nice

<popey> they even do it for unrelated domains that arent the ones in question

<treb0r> i think i'd prefer that to gay pr0n

<popey> Pipex

<treb0r> i think that may be unintentional

<popey> nope

<popey> it happened to me

<popey> I went mental :)

<daviey> But i suppose the gay porn would have relaxed you? :P

<popey> i.e. I own a few domains, one expired - they had the wrong address for me, so I didnt get the reminder - and they deleted the dns records for the other domains too

* treb0r bends over to pick up the soap

<treb0r> if they did that to me, i'd move to another isp

<popey> i have :)

<treb0r> which one, out of interest?

<popey> well they were not my isp, my domain registrar

<daviey> I dropped pipex after they ripped me off

<popey> I am now with NTL for my connection and its lovely :)

<popey> ADSL Max sucks

<daviey> i cancelled the account, and they still continued to 'try' and charge me

<treb0r> i use ukreg for domains, textdrive for dev sites and positive internet for production

<popey> anyone want to buy an adsl modem / router? :)

<treb0r> whta speeds are you seeing?

<popey> 1MB/s

<gord> I was on pipex a while back.. not that bad I guess although their traffic filtering made downloading ubuntu isos and the like annoying

<treb0r> yuck

<popey> yuck?

<daviey> popey, how many LED's does it have? Are they multicoloured?

<Seeker`> popey: Does it make coffee?

<treb0r> are you miles away from the exchange?

<popey> treb0r: 1MB/s

<popey> that is quite a lot by most peoples standards

<popey> one megabyte per second

<daviey> bah i'm on 4mb/s and wish i was on more

<jamesbrose> what a lovely afternoon

<popey> NTL is 10Mb/s

<Seeker`> jamesbrose: pfft

<treb0r> I'm on ~2MB/s

<daviey> oh geez! i miss read it - i thought you said 4kb/s

<jamesbrose> Seeker` , bad weather?

<daviey> i need sleep

<Seeker`> jamesbrose: Computer is dying very rapidly

<jamesbrose> Seeker` , why's that?

<gord> I can offically get upto 16mbit but only get 2.4mbit or so, annoying is the word

<popey> yeah

<popey> on dsl I was getting around 1Mb/s, often less

<gord> hopefully we will get universal wireless coverage one day and how far away you are from the exchange won't make a difference

<treb0r> tey're talking about laying fibre around here, like some dutch town

<daviey> yeah whats happening with WI-MAX?

<treb0r> they're

<Seeker`> jamesbrose: Started randomly hanging earlier, now wont boot at all, says something about kernel panic and setting init=

<daviey> Seeker`, was it directly after a fsck?

<Seeker`> tried running memtest, and it looks like one of my sticks of ram may be screwed

<Seeker`> daviey: no

<jamesbrose> Seeker` , doesn't sound so good..

<jamesbrose> have you updated the kernel lately?

<Seeker`> jamesbrose: It was running egdy, and, afaik, up to date

<jamesbrose> did you have a lot on it?

<jamesbrose> (data etc..)

<Seeker`> my music / files are on one disk, the main part of edgy on another

<Seeker`> i have edgy and windows installed on the same disk

<jamesbrose> so you should be able to re-install?

<Seeker`> hopefully

<Seeker`> am just checking RAM now

<Seeker`> hopefully its just a dead stick of RAM

<jamesbrose> I deleted my /etc yesterday (again!)

<jamesbrose> the most noobish thing EVER.

<jayteeuk> There, updated my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesTait

<Seeker`> hmm

<Seeker`> seems to be ok with only 1 stick of RAM

<daviey> jayteeuk, it's alright for you - some git already had my name on the wiki - he hasn't updated it since 2005

<jayteeuk> Heheheh. :)

<jayteeuk> Well "James" is fairly common, but most people tend to spell my surname "Tate" like the sugar company.

<daviey> Infact, when i type my name on other wiki-pages - it autolinks to this other guys page

<daviey> sounds like home time to me, bbl

<jayteeuk> Part-timer. :-P

* popey has been home for 1.5 hours :)

<popey> got to work at 06:30 mind

* jayteeuk has been home all day, as usual.

<jayteeuk> The last two days I've started work at 9am sharp too.

* MattJ puts his feet up

<MattJ> jamesbrose: How on earth do you delete /etc? o_O

<jamesbrose> lol

<jamesbrose> I was deleting stuff

<jamesbrose> and went

<jamesbrose> rm -rf ../ by accident

<MattJ> :D

<jamesbrose> because I thought I was in the directory above a dir in /etc

<jamesbrose> turns out I wasn't :D

<jayteeuk> Followed by Enter, then blind panic, then CTRL-C about fifty times. :)

<jamesbrose> indeed :)

<MattJ> The worst I ever did was chmod -R a-rx / # (instead of ./)

<jamesbrose> luckly the suse dvd saved my ass

<MattJ> My PC didn't die instantly, but random apps started to freeze

<MattJ> and I couldn't log in

<jamesbrose> yeah, I was ok until I started opening stuff :P

<jayteeuk> What did the animal have to do with it?

* MattJ praises the recovery mode on the GRUB menu

<MattJ> Is there a way to disable the write-caching for a removable device?

<dsas> hmm, are there multiple ways to solve a sudoku ?

<jayteeuk> dsas: Yes, I think so.

<dsas> hmm, don't think that gnome-sudoku knows.

* dsas goes bug hunting

<jayteeuk> dsas: In some cases at least -- it depends how many numbers have been entered to begin with.

<dsas> hmm, I guess it is this bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413948

<ubot3> Gnome bug 413948 in gnome-sudoku "Sudoku does nothing at end of hard game." [Normal,Unconfirmed]

<jamesbrose> ah time to start VirtualBox :D I love it!

<jayteeuk> Wow... I'm just setting up a timetable for the people who will be feeding/cleaning our animals while we're away.

<jayteeuk> Three weeks sounded like such a long time until I set it down on paper.

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Jono Bacon: Java for Ubuntu <http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=916>

<popey> seen the news about the french parliament planning to use 1000+ ubuntu PCs?

<popey> one per MP, one per assistant

<popey> pretty awesome

<popey> evening LoudMouthMan

<jayteeuk> Excellent news. :)

<jayteeuk> Evening LoudMouthMan. Been meaning to catch hold of you. :)

<popey> o_O

<jayteeuk> Do you still have one of those Ubuntu polo shirts set aside for me?

<dsas> run LoudMouthMan run!

* jayteeuk winks suggestively.

<LoudMouthMan> evning all .

<LoudMouthMan> yep i have 7

<LoudMouthMan> price as per wiki payment via paypal and Ill send it to you

<jayteeuk> Excellent. :)

<jayteeuk> It'd be great if I could have one before I go away next Friday. :)

<popey> dsas: i have a friend who has written a sudoku solver that does then in a fraction of a second

<popey> get paying then jayteeuk :)

<LoudMouthMan> one per mp what popey ? one gazzak ? one laptop ( hmm one laptop per mp )

<jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: Wiki link?

<popey> ubuntu pc LoudMouthMan

<popey> in france

<LoudMouthMan> for popey [ http://www.lulu.tv/?p=6416 ] and for jayteeuk [ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Marketing/Merchandise ]

<jayteeuk> Thanks LoudMouthMan. :)

<popey> heh LoudMouthMan

<popey> wife is out tonight

<popey> i am babysitting

<popey> how handy

<dsas> popey: Cool, a couple of guys at work started writing one but gave up.

* LoudMouthMan is heading out to a murder mystery evening at the hawth .

<dsas> hmm, I have a shirt reserved too apparently.

<LoudMouthMan> with his wife .. the HOT babysitter is here <grin>

<LoudMouthMan> dsas yes . the next step should be pay.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: logging into paypal now.

<dsas> sorry, must have forgot about this.

<LoudMouthMan> hehe sokay . theyve been sitting there looking at me accusingly for a while.

<jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: Is the PONG :zelazny.freenode.net

<LoudMouthMan> okay I think I speak for my 5 remaining brain cells when I say . Huh ?

<dsas> jayteeuk: There is a distinct whiff coming from it, yes.

<jayteeuk> ???

<dsas> jayteeuk: the IRC server with a pong.

<jayteeuk> OK, now I'm lost. Am I pinging someone?

<dsas> <jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: Is the PONG :zelazny.freenode.net

<popey> < dsas> <jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: Is the PONG :zelazny.freenode.net

<apokryphos> <popey> < dsas> <jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: Is the PONG :zelazny.freenode.net

* apokryphos has no idea what's going on

<LoudMouthMan> I am so not joining in . this is not the hokey pokey

<Seeker``> <apokryphos> <popey> < dsas> <jayteeuk> LoudMouthMan: Is the PONG :zelazny.freenode.net

<jayteeuk> Oh, I didn't type that.

<jayteeuk> I tihnk there was a pound sign in there... something must not like that.

<LoudMouthMan> yes you did , he said invoking his best pythonesque voice.

<jayteeuk> What I actually typed was "Is the 2.62 postage First Class?" but with a pound sign. :)

<jayteeuk> No I didn't! :-P

<LoudMouthMan> yes you did . [ hang on are you here for the arguement class ? ]

<LoudMouthMan> yes well its first class plus the little baggie they go in.

<LoudMouthMan> or including .

<LoudMouthMan> or whatever

<LoudMouthMan> anyway . weve got spam and ubuntu, spam and motu , spam and lrl07 and spam and spam .

<jayteeuk> Excellent. :) Money sent.

<jayteeuk> Eggs? Sausage?

<jayteeuk> Anyway, I need to go, before the wife strips a nut.

<LoudMouthMan> all together now .

<LoudMouthMan> spam spam spam spam

<dsas> spam spam spam

<jayteeuk> bbl.

<LoudMouthMan> spam spam spam spam , lots of spam , lots of spam spam spam spam

<LoudMouthMan> oh hes gone.

<Norf-ubu> spam paste - yum yum

* Seeker`` starts to sing, "Isn't it awfully nice to have a...."

<LoudMouthMan> right stop that ! its all getting all to silly now.

<Norf-ubu> is it dead ?

<LoudMouthMan> no . it moved a little.

<LoudMouthMan> i think its resting.

<Norf-ubu> hmmmmmmm i wonder if there would be a call for monty-python-buntu

<LoudMouthMan> wow how did I miss this ?? http://www.acmesystems.it/?id=21

<LoudMouthMan> hhah I love that .

<LoudMouthMan> Monty Python Ubuntu It would have a pink spam colour scheme and come with as much python and spamassasing preloaded on the CD.

<Norf-ubu> has its possibities

<Norf-ubu> n my spellin sux again 2day

<LoudMouthMan> aaargh spelling is over weighted.

<LoudMouthMan> or was that speech impediments ?

<popey> \o/

* popey plays cities

<popey> http://cities.totl.net for those that dont know :)

<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: Java and OpenBSD <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/143585.html> || Caroline Ford: Friday <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/143159.html> || Phil Bull: Feisty feature of the day #1 - OpenOffice gets Tango'd <http://philbull.livejournal.com/25596.html>

<Norf-ubu> i'm too addicted to www.anarchy-online.com

<LoudMouthMan> popey watch out cities isa gateway game. from here it only leads to Worldof Warcraft and then you might as well create your own beryl theme for the amount of productivty you'll get.

<LoudMouthMan> grin duck run like ext3.fsck

<Norf-ubu> hmmmmm anarchy online is down here.... :(( looks like i might have to watch TV!

<LoudMouthMan> anarchy is down ? wow ? how chaotic is that ?

<Norf-ubu> contra-chaotic

<Norf-ubu> the games itself is an oxymoron as ideally you need to work in groups

<dsas> self organising unhierarchical groups?

<Norf-ubu> almost

<Norf-ubu> brb - windows just decided to brain fart

<dsas> maybe if you worked as an anarchist commune, you could take turns at being the executive officer each week.

<popey> speaking of which

<popey> were we not going to have a vote at some point for leader?

<dsas> I can't remember what was decided.

<popey> that we weould leave it until after LWE

<popey> no

<popey> after the team was made official

<popey> iirc

<AndrewB> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LugRadioLive2007 Should I add my name.. I will be attending..

<dsas> popey: Hmm, that does sound familiar actually.

*** freesitebuilder is now known as freesitebuilder_

*** freesitebuilder_ is now known as freesitebuilder

<dsas> I guess the fact that no-ones been clamouring for an election means people are happy with the status quo

<LoudMouthMan> i was under the impression that status quo and not need one was the point .certianly we have had the discussion a few times .

<LoudMouthMan> i think theres a few of us "regulars" who make up a excellent point of contact for different tasks and events and roles.

<LoudMouthMan> AndrewB then yes .

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: I think I agree. I don't see the need for a clear cut leader figure, we're mostly self organising, and as long as we have people volunteer to chair meetings and the like...

<LoudMouthMan> I think thats the value . dsas .we do need points of contact but as has been shown one point can be a point of failure as equal as it can be a point of entrance. I think it is better served by having many eyes. I am worried though that we avoid creating a clique or a huddle .

<dsas> the ubuntu-uk cabal!

<dsas> clique creating is something that may happen, but I'm not sure what difference having an elected leader would make to that.

<LoudMouthMan> haha indeed.

<LoudMouthMan> none at all . but id be the first to be anti clique and pro opportunity.

<LoudMouthMan> man I sound like im running .

<LoudMouthMan> hahaah

*** tsmithe` is now known as tsmithe

<dsas> I don't think we're a clique-y group. yet. But then I expect that newcomers would recognise that sort of thing before the cliques members would.

<Norf-ubu> *puts nose clip on* - you mean like a local group for local people? :P

<LoudMouthMan> dsas well yeah thats always my concern.

<Norf-ubu> league of gentlemen styel

<jamesbrose> anybody know how to redirect back to a refering page using php?

<LoudMouthMan> which was always better asa radio show.

<Norf-ubu> true

<LoudMouthMan> jamesbrose . yes thanks .

<LoudMouthMan> oh.

<LoudMouthMan> youd like . an example ?

<jamesbrose> lol if you wouldn't mind..

<LoudMouthMan> its header ( http://uk.php.net/header ) and then .. referer.

<dsas> something like header("Location: $referrer");

<LoudMouthMan> hmm hang on a mo . http://forums.htmlhelp.com/index.php?showtopic=1090

<dsas> it has been a while since I touched PHP

<Sionide> i got some reggae reggae sauce the other day

<dsas> Sionide: nice?

<Sionide> tis good stuff

<Sionide> ♫♪♩♬ put some music in your food!

<dsas> I went to sainsburys yesterday and forgot

<LoudMouthMan> no ignore that .. wrong link .

<LoudMouthMan> damn im just not popey when it comes to links.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: I see different faces in here everytime I'm around and the "regulars" have changed too. I don't think we're clique-y yet.

<jamesbrose> ouch

<jamesbrose> I get a hell of an error

<jamesbrose> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/4

<jamesbrose> w00t n0. 4

<jamesbrose> I'm using:

<jamesbrose> header("Location: $referrer");

<Sionide> wow our very own pastebin :)

<jamesbrose> & header("Location: $referrer");

<jamesbrose> woops

<jamesbrose> damn synergy copy and paste

<jamesbrose> $referrer = $_SERVER['HTTP_referer'];

<jamesbrose> header("Location: $referrer");

<LoudMouthMan> well dsas I feel we can count on X3n, Dsas,Popey, LoudMouthMan,Gazzak,Jono,Seeker` and probably mootbot.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: I'm not sure about that dsas fellow.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: Other people have stepped up and done things though, Norf-ubu got the Skills wikipage going and pimped. Which has been useful already.

<dsas> There's probably other things I'm not aware of too...

<Norf-ubu> always happy to oblige and keep the braincells ticking over whilst i'm out of work :|

<LoudMouthMan> indeed hence I think .. were doing fine ,

* dsas nods

<dsas> the status quo is fine by me. maybe if a vote was promised, it should be held though. Perhaps with "status quo" as an option.

* dsas opens the wine

<LoudMouthMan> good point .

<LoudMouthMan> I guess I should read the documents. (unless popeys silence suggest he is reading the minutes )

<dsas> hi GazzaK

<LoudMouthMan> cheking the logs nd the list this is the only occasion we have had to discuss leaders http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2006/09/05/%23ubuntu-uk.log

* LoudMouthMan scratches his head he is sure this has come up before.

<GazzaK> hi dsas

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: there was some discussion on the list.

* GazzaK votes for Nik

<GazzaK> what are we voting for? :p

<LoudMouthMan> dsas, yeah but its not in the minutes or the logs on freenode . and googles cached nothing no it .

<LoudMouthMan> mail list ?

* LoudMouthMan downloads the archive and searches it.

<LoudMouthMan> Gazzak were voting for Popey for president or Butler for Bishop .needless to say everyones bashing the butler.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2006-November/001660.html

<GazzaK> I remember reading something about ubuntu-uk leaders, but thought it was defaulted to voting in LoudMouthMan

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: also https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2006-November/001684.html

<LoudMouthMan> yeah I seem to remember that pricey comment. my own view ( even as a default guy in the front ) has always been let things work if they work well and take responsibility if they fail.

<GazzaK> no no no, if they work well, take the credit, if they fail, blame popey ....

<GazzaK> or is that just the way it works in my company... :p

<LoudMouthMan> your company blames popey as well ?

<dsas> GazzaK: I think the position was LoudMouthMan had sort of being doing it anyway, so lets have that as an informal role until after the team got approved.

<GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, erm, yes

<GazzaK> we all blame popey

<LoudMouthMan> dsas yep thats right .

<GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, do you want to retire?

<LoudMouthMan> well okay . lets add the issue to the next meeting and stir up some interest

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: when is the next one planned?

<LoudMouthMan> gazzak . no .<grin>

<LoudMouthMan> 21st

<GazzaK> can I make a poster?

<GazzaK> I thought the next meeting was the 20th?

<GazzaK> as per the topic?

<LoudMouthMan> my view is we need to have a few points of contact and a few points of failure. and good sharing of the executive to ensure that we dont end up lopsided.

<GazzaK> can I be the No1 Diversity Officer?

<LoudMouthMan> people who are good at doing stuff should do it . but it shouldnt be to the exlcusion of otther things.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: I'm already subscribed to the ubuntu-locoteams (or whatever its called) list.

<LoudMouthMan> dsas , likewise.

<GazzaK> arghhh spam on the lug mailing list, I hate it

<LoudMouthMan> im personally intersted in making things move forward and allowing things to also gain stability and resiliance

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: Cool, I thought so. Also mdke (who occasionaly pops his head up) is too.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: I think ubuntu "require" we have a nominated contact person though.

<dsas> LoudMouthMan: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact

<GazzaK> yay, dominos sent us a free food voucher \o/

<dsas> They only ever send me menus. :(

<GazzaK> dsas, they messed up last week - we were waiting for two and a half hours for tom's online order

<dsas> suck.

<dsas> you're making me want takeaway food.

<dsas> GazzaK: How's the revitalisation of colchester LUG going?

<GazzaK> dsas, and I found a place which does delivery chinese too, realllllly nice

<GazzaK> dsas, website - up and running, mailing list - sorted, venue for first meet - first choice blew out as they are rubbish, and now trying to find a nice venue

<dsas> cool, sounds like it's going well.

<dsas> Have you got many people interested in going?

<GazzaK> there is however a community centre across the road, and they have free time periods, so I might see about there

<GazzaK> dsas, mailing list only has 15, and of those five have expressed an interest so far :'(

<GazzaK> it's a bit new

<GazzaK> well it was a lot dead

<dsas> 5/15 is pretty good :)

<popey> :p

<GazzaK> yeah, I might also be getting FREE advertising in the local free paper \o/

<GazzaK> hey popsicle

* GazzaK hugs popey

<popey> :)

<dsas> I'm thinking about whether or not to start up a LUG in my hometown, or to join a neighbouring one.

<GazzaK> dsas, how far to the local up and running one?

<GazzaK> come here and join mine?

<dsas> GazzaK: There's one in Sheffield ~15 miles

<GazzaK> dsas, walk to it

<dsas> home (Chesterfield) have a population of 100k though, and there's a big IT company in town...

<popey> dsas: where is your nearest lug?

<popey> do they need help?

<dsas> popey: Sheffield, they seem to be running fine.

<popey> theres two isnt there?

<popey> slugbug and shefflug?

<dsas> there was a lug in chesterfield but the website is dead.

<popey> url?

<dsas> hmm, i'm unaware of slugbug

<dsas> www.spirelug.org.uk/

<popey> http://www.lug.org.uk/lugmasters/apply.php

<popey> :)

<popey> the guy who started it is Robin Needham

<GazzaK> why can't anything cool be made out of colchester lug, like colclug - it sounds naff

<butlershouse> well thats annoying .. what did I miss ?

<GazzaK> butlershouse, loads

<popey> everyone else was voted out

<popey> it was down to you and jono

<popey> jono lost

<butlershouse> again !?

<popey> :)

<GazzaK> but we were not voting for the leader, you have now been voted as my houseboy

<dsas> hmm, spirelug is listed under yorkshire. tsk.

<butlershouse> so its popey and I in the arena with the funny looking battons and the wierd vulcan music ..

<popey> GLADIATOR

<popey> READY!

<GazzaK> oww, cute lycra

<dsas> popey: I'm not back home full time until July-ish. I'm going to think it over.

<popey> well, by then we will have a new server in place

<butlershouse> um i was thinking Amok Time.

<popey> and hopefully new website :)

<popey> ahh

* popey ordered the new server last week :)

<dsas> Cool :)

<popey> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/5015/SYS-5015M-T+.cfm

<popey> iirc

<butlershouse> right i better go get ready for the Murder Mystery Evening... ill see you all laters..

<popey> The butler(shours) did it!

<butlershouse> hahaahh Yep !

<butlershouse> ttfn

<GazzaK> see ya

<GazzaK> murder mystery - is that like wife swapping?

<butlershouse> what !

<butlershouse> no dont do that im off...

<popey> i didn't enjoy the one I went to

<GazzaK> lol

<Seeker``> popey: Did they try to murder you?

<popey> i cant remember actually

<popey> it was that good

<Seeker``> wow, must have been fun :P

* GazzaK laughs at Nik's last "Noooo I've never done that, honest" - erm, denial, thats like admission of guilt?

<popey> exactly

<GazzaK> do different scart cables give different picture quality? (both scart cables are half decent ones)

<popey> yes

<popey> there is signal loss in crap long ones

<GazzaK> they are both sort ish, 1.8m ones

<GazzaK> one is a new flat style (came with the STB) the other is a medium priced traditional scart lead

<GazzaK> and I think the picture is slighty worse with the STB's original cable

<GazzaK> but I'm not sure

<goblimeyW> how to get people to do what you want http://xkcd.com/c149.html

<jamesbrose> what ports do I need to open up for post fix?

<jamesbrose> postfix*

<popey> to receive mail jamesbrose ?

<popey> 25 is smtp

<jamesbrose> danka, what about sending?

<popey> outbound

<popey> guess

<jamesbrose> :/

<popey> hint

<popey> it is also smtp

<jamesbrose> ah :)

<popey> :)

<Norf-ubu> ok ok ok i give up - is it 25 as well? <grins>

<popey> haha

<jamesbrose> shhh :)

<jamesbrose> seen this ? - http://digg.com/linux_unix/the_PERFECT_mp3_player_for_Linux_geeks_Linux_friendly_hardware

<jamesbrose> looks so sexy

<deiaccord> When installing ubuntu, is there any to confirm which disk it thinks is hd0? I have hda and sda. Although I've set my BIOS boot priority to sda (blank disk) I'd like to double check before accidentally trashing the boot record on hda (which I want to keep seperate)

<deiaccord> (hda=windows)

<goblimeyW> are you installing from the "live" cd

<deiaccord> yes

<deiaccord> edgy 6.1

<jamesbrose> 6.1??

<deiaccord> 6.10?

<jamesbrose> yea

<goblimeyW> system - administration - gnome partition editor

<jamesbrose> hat do you get from the command 'df' ?

<jamesbrose> what*

<deiaccord> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on

<deiaccord> unionfs 1165328 682424 482904 59% /

<deiaccord> varrun 517840 84 517756 1% /var/run

<deiaccord> varlock 517840 0 517840 0% /var/lock

<deiaccord> procbususb 10240 180 10060 2% /proc/bus/usb

<deiaccord> udev 10240 180 10060 2% /dev

<deiaccord> devshm 517840 0 517840 0% /dev/shm

<deiaccord> lrm 517840 7696 510144 2% /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/volatile

<deiaccord> tmpfs 517840 28 517812 1% /tmp

<jamesbrose> ahh, lol nope :]

<jamesbrose> try the partition editor

<deiaccord> yea, not the behaviour i expected from gaim either :)

<deiaccord> so srry about that :)

<jamesbrose> np

<jamesbrose> df works when you've got in installed

<deiaccord> I can't find anything that seems to help in gparted....tried all the options

<deiaccord> even tried ls /dev/hd* just in case :)

<goblimeyW> what have you got listed under gparted - devices

<deiaccord> you mean like /dev/hda and /dev/sda?

<goblimeyW> yes

<goblimeyW> when you change from one to the other i hoped it would give the info you wanted

<deiaccord> as background I'd normally boot from hda (windows) but I've added sda for use in linux, set boot priority in the bios to the sda disk but want to confirm it will work before installing grub (so as a safty feature I cna override grub by removing a disk/changing bios)

<AndrewB> Is there a reason for no fora/forum for this group?

<goblimeyW> ahh , so why not remove the hda before installing

<deiaccord> Hmm, possible, but then I'd prefer it if grub detected /hda so It configures it to allow my to boot windows too

<deiaccord> I'm probaly just being too cautious :)

<goblimeyW> cautious is good - perhaps someone else has a sugestion

<popey> hd0 is what grub calls it

<popey> hda is what linux calls it

<Norf-ubu> my drive is what i calls it

<deiaccord> :)

<deiaccord> problem is when you have sha and hda which is hd0 :)

<deiaccord> Hmm, well I've found the info on restoring the windows mbr on hda if I get it wrong so I think it'll be easiest to just hope I've got it all right and fix it afterwards if not :)

<deiaccord> Found a great article where people were trying to do what I am but still no info on checking what hd0 is before you install :S

<deiaccord> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-257334.html

<popey> well

<deiaccord> windows on ide, ubuntu on sata. Boot sata with chainload option for windows

<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto is good

<deiaccord> but ide will boot if it has priority

<deiaccord> I've found lots of good docs on grub, and info on finding what hd0 is.....but not on a live cd as the grub device map does not exist yet :S

<deiaccord> Nowt to do but try I think

<deiaccord> time to reboot and see if it worked :)

<deiaccord> Well, PC still works but grub went on hda not the sata disk....just hangs when the sata one has boot priority

<jayteeuk> Evening all.

<popey> lo

* popey has now enabled beryl on the desktop

<popey> unsure how long it will last :)

* Norf-ubu loves Beryl, i spend hours just twiddling the screen around :|

* Norf-ubu is sad

<GazzaK> popey, it was nice talking to you

* goblimeyW deliberately misreads what poey said by taking "enabled" to b e a euphemism

* GazzaK watches popey bounce the desktop for ever :p

<popey> eh?

<popey> hehe

<jayteeuk> I killed Beryl again. In fact I removed the repo and gave Compiz a try, but got rid of that too.

<Norf-ubu> \me twiddles Beryl just once more...

<jayteeuk> Not a great way to help improve their stability, admittedly, but I have more productive tweaks to play with.

<popey> works fine here :)

<petoj> can you help me with mounting disk in ubuntu?

<popey> !worksforme

<ubot3> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.

<popey> petoj: what kind of disk?

<petoj> i have disk with windows xp and fat32 and it refuses to mount

<petoj> it is not changeable disk

<popey> xp is on ntfs?

<jayteeuk> I had some issues with desktop effects... mainly high CPU usage. Compiz seemed to be much worse than Beryl and admittedly even after uninstalling Beryl Xorg was still chewing CPU -- then an update was released that seems to have fixed that, so I might give Beryl another go.

<popey> and you have a separate fat32 disk?

<cinex> hi

<jayteeuk> Evening cinex

<popey> lo

<popey> petoj: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions

<cinex> tick follows tok!

<petoj> i have xp with fat 32 on other partition, but same disk

<popey> check that link petoj

* Norf-ubu twiddles Beryl once more - who cares about Fat32 <grin>

<cinex> can you set beryl to lock the screen if you leave it on the top or bottom 'window' ?

<Norf-ubu> those are the instructions that I used for mounting, so it should work ok

<Norf-ubu> dunno about lock - as in keyboard lock ?

<popey> there is no lock option in beryl

<cinex> screen lock. like a passworded screensaver

<Norf-ubu> then no

<popey> i have a corner set to flick the screensaver on

<popey> but not with beryl

<popey> install brightside

<popey> brightside - Add reactivity to the corners and edges of your GNOME desktop

<jayteeuk> Is it Beryl that gives you a nice window list if you mouse up to the top right corner?

<cinex> yeah

<jayteeuk> Very slick.

<petoj> thx, it goes

<cinex> it buggers the pager though

<popey> cool petoj

<popey> http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=1772 want!

<cinex> nnintendo still rule eh

<x3n-n800> wheeee

<x3n-n800> this is pretty cool . much easier to type than i thought

<popey> heh

* x3n-n800 stole his brothers n800

<AndrewB> Technically should Mark shuttleworth not be part of the Ubuntu-UK team..? Or could be?

<AndrewB> Mez: you about?

<popey> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7707585592627775409&q=revolution+os

<popey> \o/

<popey> someone put Revolution OS online on google

<Seeker``> AndrewB: Ask him

<popey> AndrewB: no

<popey> this is the uk loco team, part of the community

<popey> mark heads up the company that sponnsors ubuntu

<AndrewB> err

<AndrewB> I mean.. should be... accent comes through

<AndrewB> or could be

<popey> what about all the other teams?

<popey> should he be a member of them too?

<popey> and if so, he would get nothing done surely?

<AndrewB> He stays in the UK tho..

<popey> so?

<AndrewB> Meh I suppose this was a crap train of thought.

<popey> :)

* AndrewB hits the pub

<AndrewB> Cyall.

<cinex> anyone know wher eyou can get simcity from (linux version) ~?

<jayteeuk> I know of lincity.

<jayteeuk> I didn't know you could get SimCity though.

<cinex> cant stand it

<petoj> how to write on disk (ntfs)? I see it and i have tutorial, but file from tutorial cannot be found

<cinex> I wouldn't bother petoj. Personally I would just convert it to fat32

<Norf-ubu> personal experience with NTFS is a minefield

<petoj> it isnt so easy, because i have there files over 8GB

<cinex> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Loki-Entertainment-Software-SimCity-3000/dp/B00004VX0T/ref=sr_1_39/202-4969592-3759842?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1173480658&sr=8-39

<petoj> this writing method should be stable

<jayteeuk> It's still a work in progress petoj. Writing to NTFS disks under Linux is still highly experimental.

<petoj> it is ThirdPartyNTFS3G and tutorial says ..."driver is now stable, however, the driver might not have been back-ported to your Ubuntu release"...

<petoj> it is good, but it is hard to install for noob like me

<jayteeuk> petoj: Do you have a link to the tutorial you're using?

<petoj> it is here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions/ThirdPartyNTFS3G

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