| <UbuntuMatt> Evening all :-) | |
| <Bagnaj97> Evening | |
| <cinex> hi | |
| <popey> hello | |
| <ziadoz> can any clarify something for me about this? http://debianadmin.com/copper/albums/edgy/22.png | |
| <cinex> question: how do you tell if a port is open to the 'outside world' ? | |
| <ziadoz> can i change the location of the grub install there? | |
| <popey> i dont think you can ziadoz | |
| <popey> that is one of the flaws with the live cd | |
| <ziadoz> well you can change the text in the box | |
| <ziadoz> from hd0 | |
| <ziadoz> if i changed it to hd0,1 | |
| <ziadoz> would that work? | |
| <popey> i do not know, sorry | |
| <ziadoz> doh | |
| <ziadoz> the alternative cd doesnt seem to install for me | |
| <ziadoz> it goes black about half way through, and totally freezes up | |
| <ziadoz> maybe it has something to do with the sata settings in the bios perhaps? | |
| <popey> :S | |
| <popey> edgy? | |
| <popey> have you checked for bugs? | |
| <philwyett> ziadoz, I have never tried what you are tryining to do. However, if I want to test things like this I use virtual machines in virtualbox or vmware with created virtual drives to test theories like this! :-) | |
| <ziadoz> heh | |
| <ziadoz> i might have to try that | |
| <ziadoz> would be good if they offered the option to choose where to install GRUB during the install | |
| <philwyett> ziadoz, Well a default install is a one size fits all. If you want to play with grub I think it's expected to be done after an install. | |
| <ziadoz> it would be useful if you could choose between a beginner and expert mode install | |
| <ziadoz> that would be one size fits all :) | |
| <philwyett> :-) | |
| <ziadoz> i just wanna dual boot with the NT loader | |
| <ziadoz> i know i can do it with GRUB (use that setup on my work box) | |
| <ziadoz> but id prefer to leave me NT loader alone on my laptop | |
| <philwyett> Usng chainloader? | |
| <ziadoz> chainloader? | |
| <philwyett> Using even | |
| <philwyett> Chainloader for Windows under grub. | |
| <philwyett> If it is still that these days. I haven't dual booted a system in years. ;-) | |
| <ziadoz> never heard of it | |
| * UbuntuMatt hopes no-one whois's him and see's he is in Luton | |
| <ziadoz> can i choose the location of GRUB during the alternative install? | |
| <philwyett> Dunno | |
| <philwyett> Hmm... I see with herd 5, if you try to enable desktop effects on a non supported card you now get a 30 second White Screen Of Death (WSOD). :-) | |
| <GazzaK> at least it's a nicer colour than a BSOD | |
| <GazzaK> and is only a 30 sec death | |
| <GazzaK> more of a WSON (white screen of napping) | |
| <philwyett> :-) | |
| <cinex> re | |
| <GazzaK> woooo red moon | |
| <cinex> completly? | |
| <GazzaK> almost | |
| <GazzaK> so close | |
| <cinex> I think its gone past it already. | |
| <cinex> starting to go now | |
| <cinex> or so it seems | |
| <popey> http://photos.marmot.org.uk/p/75535 | |
| <philwyett> Cool. Very Ubuntu moon. :-D | |
| <cinex> blah blah blah | |
| <cinex> it was/is a lot more dull than the last two i saw | |
| <cinex> more colour but not as bright | |
| <cinex> richer? | |
| <Bagnaj97> It's turning white now | |
| <Norf-ubu> ok - who nicked the moon ? | |
| <popey> heh | |
| <Bagnaj97> I managed to screw up all my pics of the eclipse happening :-( Forgot to wipe the condensation of my lens >_< | |
| <Bagnaj97> At least I'm getting good ones of the eclipse going | |
| <James_Pain> what a day! phew | |
| <popey> moo | |
| <James_Pain> moo popey | |
| <James_Pain> it was my birthday 1 hour ago ^_^ | |
| <James_Pain> strangly the same day as a luner eclipse | |
| <James_Pain> <.< | |
| <James_Pain> >.> | |
| <GazzaK> Happpppy Birthday James_Pain | |
| <James_Pain> ^_^ ty | |
| <James_Pain> just in time | |
| <James_Pain> i guess | |
| <James_Pain> sry, not thinking clearly | |
| <X3N> what a day indeed | |
| <Norf-ubu> is the day over yet, i'm on nicotine and caffeine overload | |
| <apokryphos> wow, we got spammed in here. That's a first 8) | |
| <ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: time issues <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/138122.html> | |
| <ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: Wikipedia update <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/138389.html> | |
| <cinex> mornin | |
| <GazzaK> morning cinex | |
| <medders> my PSU has just died | |
| <medders> :( | |
| <GazzaK> did it explode? | |
| <medders> nope, I just had that buring smell then it turned off | |
| <medders> and explosion would of been more fun though | |
| <GazzaK> yeah | |
| <medders> this is the first time this has happened to me, any advice on getting a new one? | |
| <Norf-ubu> g'day | |
| <Norf-ubu> anyone familiar with login window prefs? i solved the HAL not initialised glitch by doing a timed login, but cant set the pause to below 10 seconds - ideally i want this down to 3-5 seconds... any ideas? | |
| <Seeker`> lo | |
| <Norf-ubu> hi | |
| <Seeker`> anyone able to give some advice about an XP laptop (and the advice shoudln't be install ubuntu :P) | |
| <Norf-ubu> specifics would help... | |
| <Seeker`> A friend got a squeeking/ whirring sound when they tried to boot, followed by a BSOD with "Kernel image data" error | |
| <Seeker`> *Kernel data image error | |
| <Seeker`> And now it wont boot, and it keeps on asking to insert a system disk | |
| <Seeker`> i think this may be due to a dying hard drive | |
| <Norf-ubu> sounds like the HDD is either borked or has some bad errors. you could try downloading Hirens Boot CD and doing some tests/fixes from that | |
| <Seeker`> and would like a 2nd opinion | |
| <Seeker`> I was going to attempt to boot of an ubuntu CD and try and get some data off | |
| <Seeker`> and then possibly replace the drive, depending on wether i can get at the HDD | |
| <Norf-ubu> that would possible get the data, but not fix the problem... | |
| <Norf-ubu> i'm not aware of a Linux equivalent of Hirens - but It's easily available from the net | |
| <Seeker`> i would hope that replacing the drive would fix the problem :P | |
| <popey> http://wordpress.org/development/2007/03/upgrade-212/ | |
| <popey> 12:21 <+JohnRobert> Long story short: If you downloaded WordPress 2.1.1 within the past 3-4 days, your files may include a security exploit that was added by a cracker, and you should upgrade all of your files to 2.1.2 immediately. | |
| * Seeker` is gonna wait for a few days before upgrading from 2.1 to 2.1.2, incase there is another problem | |
| <jamyskis> hi all...i have an irc-related question | |
| <jamyskis> the irc.ubuntu.com seems to be rejecting my password when i identify myself | |
| <jamyskis> is there anyway i can get it reset and sent to my address that i set | |
| <jamyskis> ? | |
| <popey> /msg nickserv help | |
| <jamyskis> tried it | |
| <ubot3> New news from planetuk: Caroline Ford: Ubuntu muslim edition <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/138538.html> | |
| <cinex> 'lo | |
| <disco\\> quick Q: Two SATA drives. sdb1 = hd1,0 ; sdb3 = hd1,2 ? | |
| <disco\\> argh thats not right | |
| <disco\\> sbd1 + 3 aren't my two drives :D | |
| <disco\\> sda and sdb are | |
| <cinex> hmmm | |
| <cinex> sudo fdisk -l | |
| <cinex> ? | |
| <cinex> sudo df would help too | |
| <togster> does anyone know anything about ext3? | |
| <togster> and recovering lost space in same | |
| <disco\\> Disk /dev/sdb: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes | |
| <disco\\> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders | |
| <disco\\> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes | |
| <disco\\> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb1 * 1 13054 104856223+ 83 Linux | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb2 19582 30401 86911650 5 Extended | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb3 13055 19581 52428127+ 7 HPFS/NTFS | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb5 30025 30401 3028221 82 Linux swap / Solaris | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb6 26761 30024 26218048+ b W95 FAT32 | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb7 20234 26760 52428096 b W95 FAT32 | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb8 19582 20233 5237127 7 HPFS/NTFS | |
| <disco\\> Partition table entries are not in disk order | |
| <disco\\> basically I need to know what sdb3 = :) | |
| <disco\\> So I can stick it in GRUB to boot XP | |
| <cinex> do sudo df | |
| <cinex> if it doesnt show up the windows drive you need the missing one :) | |
| <cinex> sdb6 is windows | |
| <cinex> /dev/sdb3 13055 19581 52428127+ 7 HPFS/NTFS | |
| <cinex> even | |
| <cinex> how big is th ewindows driveR? | |
| <disco\\> disco@disco-desktop:~$ sudo df | |
| <disco\\> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb1 103210940 10496120 89569136 11% / | |
| <disco\\> varrun 517448 84 517364 1% /var/run | |
| <disco\\> varlock 517448 0 517448 0% /var/lock | |
| <disco\\> procbususb 10240 168 10072 2% /proc/bus/usb | |
| <cinex> drive | |
| <disco\\> udev 10240 168 10072 2% /dev | |
| <disco\\> devshm 517448 0 517448 0% /dev/shm | |
| <cinex> ni GB | |
| <disco\\> lrm 517448 19852 497596 4% /lib/modules/2.6.17-11-generic/volatile | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sda1 41945680 33124820 8820860 79% /media/music | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sda2 153414320 117633048 35781272 77% /media/pirate | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb3 52428124 15793000 36635124 31% /media/windrive | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb7 52402464 1839328 50563136 4% /media/fat32 | |
| <disco\\> uhm... | |
| <disco\\> 50 | |
| <disco\\> 50 GiB on the dot | |
| <cinex> /dev/sdb3 looks to be 50gb right? | |
| <cinex> /dev/sdb3 13055 19581 52428127+ 7 HPFS/NTFS | |
| <cinex> add a -h switch | |
| <cinex> sudo fdisk -lh | |
| <disco\\> kk | |
| <cinex> -h doesnt seem to work | |
| <disco\\> no it doesn't | |
| <cinex> df -h will thoguh | |
| <cinex> soz about my naff typing | |
| <disco\\> hehe, np | |
| <disco\\> disco@disco-desktop:~$ sudo df -h | |
| <disco\\> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb1 99G 11G 86G 11% / | |
| <disco\\> varrun 506M 84K 506M 1% /var/run | |
| <disco\\> varlock 506M 0 506M 0% /var/lock | |
| <disco\\> procbususb 10M 168K 9.9M 2% /proc/bus/usb | |
| <disco\\> udev 10M 168K 9.9M 2% /dev | |
| <disco\\> devshm 506M 0 506M 0% /dev/shm | |
| <disco\\> lrm 506M 20M 486M 4% /lib/modules/2.6.17-11-generic/volatile | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sda1 41G 32G 8.5G 79% /media/music | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sda2 147G 113G 35G 77% /media/pirate | |
| <cinex> meh | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb3 50G 16G 35G 31% /media/windrive | |
| <disco\\> /dev/sdb7 50G 1.8G 49G 4% /media/fat32 | |
| <cinex> ther eu go | |
| <cinex> 50gb ntfs drive | |
| <cinex> one is fat32 | |
| <disco\\> yes... | |
| <disco\\> I can't really see what that's proved | |
| <cinex> it proves that /dev/sdb3 is a 50gn ntfs partition. | |
| <disco\\> true | |
| <cinex> I'm asuming your trying to find that parition (xp would, ideally, be installed on ntfs ) | |
| <disco\\> but I didn't really need to know that | |
| <disco\\> I know what's on what partition lol | |
| <cinex> you wanted to know which one was your windows drive ? | |
| <disco\\> no | |
| <disco\\> I wanted to know what sdb3 translates to in terms of hdx,x | |
| <disco\\> :D | |
| <cinex> (sdb,3) (wild guess) | |
| <disco\\> lol | |
| <disco\\> one min, i'll go and check my menu.lst grub file thing | |
| <disco\\> at the moment the entry is: | |
| <disco\\> titleWindows NT/2000/XP | |
| <disco\\> root(hd0,1) | |
| <disco\\> savedefault | |
| <disco\\> makeactive | |
| <disco\\> chainloader+1 | |
| <disco\\> but that's saying XP is on sda2 I think :/ | |
| <cinex> change it to root (sdb,3) see what happends | |
| <cinex> hapens* | |
| <togster> could you not start the grub shell and use tab completion? | |
| <cinex> or | |
| <cinex> go and see what it says in c:boot.ini | |
| <cinex> c:\boot.ini | |
| <disco\\> kk | |
| <disco\\> togster, i'd prefer to try and get it working by this method first | |
| <disco\\> the more I meddle in GRUB shells, the more things break :D | |
| <togster> k | |
| <disco\\> boot.ini is on sda1, weird... | |
| <disco\\> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="1" | |
| <cinex> rdisk.. | |
| <cinex> Which disk on the controller is being used. In the above example we are using an rdisk of "1", which indicates the second disk on the primary controller is being used. This value may be between "0" and "3" and is always set to "0" when "scsi(x)" is being used. | |
| <cinex> sdb would be rdisk 1 and sda would be rdisk 0 ? | |
| <disco\\> sounds about right | |
| <cinex> on a hda thingy it would have used disk(1) | |
| <cinex> I think | |
| <disco\\> makes sense too, because the boot.ini works | |
| <disco\\> well, i'll just try root (hd1,1) | |
| <cinex> nooooo | |
| <disco\\> pretty sure that'll work | |
| <disco\\> no? | |
| <cinex> make two entys and test em all | |
| <disco\\> ah, good idea | |
| <cinex> ive confused myslef | |
| <disco\\> haha | |
| <disco\\> i'm pretty clear on it now I think | |
| <disco\\> cheers for your help! i'll go test it now | |
| <ubot3> New news from planetuk: Jono Bacon: LoCo Docs Day a Success <http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=913> | |
| <AndrewWilliams> getting all my bits of tech to talk to each other is a nightmare | |
| <AndrewWilliams> almost to the point of considering reinstalling windows | |
| <AndrewWilliams> gah | |
| <ormiret> what's causing problems? | |
| <AndrewWilliams> calender syncing | |
| <AndrewWilliams> with evolution and windows mobile | |
| <AndrewWilliams> wm5/6 doesn't like ICS format, and Evo cant export as VCS | |
| <popey> ugh windows mobile | |
| * popey uses palm which syncs very nicely | |
| <AndrewWilliams> popey, indeed, at the time i got the phone i was using windows :) | |
| <AndrewWilliams> oh my god | |
| <AndrewWilliams> invalid format is more like a CRLF issue | |
| <AndrewWilliams> thats really bad coding | |
| <disco\\> ty cinex | |
| <disco\\> got to XP :) | |
| <cinex> what was it ? | |
| <disco\\> i didn't ACTUALLY have to change anything lol | |
| <disco\\> GRUB got it right first time :/ | |
| <cinex> (hd1,0) ? | |
| <disco\\> 0,1 | |
| <cinex> k | |
| <cinex> interesting | |
| <disco\\> god knows | |
| <disco\\> Think it's related to the hard disk order in BIOS too | |
| <disco\\> which i've changed around quite a lot recently | |
| <cinex> beats me. | |
| <cinex> irobot i s on at 9 | |
| <popey> ecebubf akk | |
| <popey> er | |
| <popey> evening all | |
| <popey> :) | |
| <GazzaK> nibler nah nah laa neep | |
| <daviey> Anybody recommend a jabber client, having probs with gaim | |
| <merriam> daviey: I like gajim. | |
| <daviey> i'll try it, thanx | |
| <merriam> It's slow and heavy on memory, but it's jabber specific and works quite well. | |
| <cinex> does kopete work ? | |
| <merriam> I don't like its logging: it uses a database instead of plain text. | |
| <merriam> Yes, I've used kopete too. | |
| <merriam> I found it rather awkward. | |
| <merriam> gajim is generally smooth, attractive and featureful. It still has some annoying faults. | |
| <merriam> I use it all the time, but I also use gaim, just for the logging. | |
| <tsmithe> what about gossip? | |
| <tsmithe> !gossip | |
| <ubot3> Factoid gossip not found | |
| <tsmithe> stupid bot | |
| * tsmithe gets ubotu | |
| <tsmithe> "<ubotu> gossip: friendly Jabber client for GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.18-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 1157 kB, installed size 3388 kB" | |
| <merriam> I've looked into gossip briefly. It doesn't look ready for an end user like me. | |
| <tsmithe> meh :) | |
| <merriam> But maybe I'm mistaken. | |
| <daviey> thanks all, seems it's not gaims fault - it's the jabber server i'm using | |
| <tsmithe> i just use gaim cos it's there ;) so i can't really talk :) | |
| <merriam> a "friendly Jabber client for GNOME" is just what I want. Tell me if it's good. | |
| <daviey> gajim is certainly more attractive than gaim, from first opinion | |
| <merriam> tsmithe: yes, gaim is pretty good, and it's core, unlike gajim. | |
| <merriam> I'm helping various friends and family through jabber, and I think gajim is friendlier. If gossip is better, I'm interested. | |
| <merriam> I mean, people who have difficulty plugging in a mouse. | |
| <tsmithe> hehe | |
| <daviey> woooaahhh, slow down. Can you write some instructions? What is a mouse? | |
| <darich> hey all | |
| <darich> anyone having problems with Gaim and google talk? | |
| <Seeker`> If anyone isn't watching topgear, they should | |
| <popey> my pvr is recording it | |
| <Seeker`> it is one of the funniest i've seen | |
| <Seeker`> "its an ingenious solution to a problem that shouldn't have existed" | |
| <cinex> ?? | |
| <Seeker`> cinex: A quote from top gear | |
| <cinex> Seeker`: yeah; but in reference to what | |
| <daviey> don't tell me! I'm recording it | |
| <cinex> lol | |
| <cinex> my azureus keeps stopping. the uploads and downloads. is it because I'm on a laptop. it limiting the resources used or soemthing? | |
| <daviey> cinex, maybe the problem is azureus? | |
| <daviey> How stable is your connection? | |
| <cinex> my connection is stable. I will try ktorrent | |
| <Seeker`> cinex: One of jeremy clarkson's ideas | |
| <daviey> cinex, i recommend ktorrent for a localmachine | |
| <cinex> ktorrent is off to a good start | |
| <daviey> good! | |
| <daviey> imho azureus was good until some of the lighter ones came along! I mean, utorrent is *the* app to use on windows and ktorrent is the nearest we have | |
| <daviey> can i test jabber with somebody? | |
| <popey> o/ | |
| * daviey doesn't have any jabber friends :( | |
| <popey> popeydc@jabber.org | |
| <popey> that works then | |
| <daviey> thank you | |
| <cinex> i robot 10 mins :P | |
| <merriam> daviey: do you have a specific use for jabber? | |
| <merriam> I heard there were arguments about moving ubuntu channels to jabber. I haven't looked into it. It sounds like a good idea. | |
| <merriam> None of the clients are as good all round as xchat, but they could be soon. irc is a dead end. | |
| <popey> ! | |
| <cinex> I've never used jabber. | |
| <popey> it's for the most part much like any other IM system | |
| <popey> from a user point of view | |
| <popey> and nothing like irc | |
| <cinex> would be counter productive to make people use it when they wouldn't for any other reason than to tal kin an ubuntu room | |
| <cinex> room/channel | |
| <merriam> popey: do you use jabber with channels? | |
| <popey> i dont, because nobody I want to talk to uses jabber | |
| <merriam> cinex: Yes. It would have to be done gradually with some sort of channel bridge. | |
| <daviey> merriam, no specific use - i just 'want' to be able to use it. Plus launchpad has the option of adding a jabber id | |
| <merriam> irc use would probably continue for years. Many people are reluctant to change. But the advantages of jabber would be available. | |
| <cinex> + also it would make ubuntu exclusive or something. you wouldn't be able to 'chance upon it' | |
| <cinex> but ive never used jabber, so I hav eno clue as to its brilliance | |
| <merriam> It's not that jabber is brilliant, but that irc will never be fixed. | |
| <cinex> afk | |
| <merriam> For example, if you lose your connection, you will miss messages. There are work-arounds, but there will never be a fix. | |
| <daviey> merriam, tbh i'm really impressed with irc compared to when i used to use it pre 2000. When if i reconnect before timeout then i get a flood of messages to catch up | |
| <popey> depends how you connect to irc merriam | |
| <popey> some of us use bouncers that rarely disconnect | |
| <merriam> Yes, it depends on whether you use a work-around. It's permanently broken in that respect. | |
| <popey> I wouldnt go as far as to say its broken | |
| <popey> it just works differently | |
| <daviey> as a protocol it works well, i blame the clients for not auto-handling registering and the other /xxx features | |
| <X3N> that's like saying HTTP is broken because you can't see pages when you're offline :p | |
| <popey> i was searching for a similar analogy :) | |
| <popey> X3N: I was thinking about setting up a pastebin for the uk | |
| <popey> pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org | |
| <popey> would you do the dns thing? | |
| <X3N> sure | |
| <daviey> X3N, i agree with merriam in some ways. You can't send 'offline' messages - like with some other IM protocols. | |
| <popey> ta | |
| <X3N> same ip as ubuntu-uk ? | |
| <popey> please X3N | |
| <daviey> popey, i would support a pastebin uk - i use the nl one alot | |
| <merriam> X3N: That's quite different. You don't miss anything with http by being disconnected for a minute. | |
| <merriam> It's a different medium, and http is adequate for it. | |
| <X3N> done popey | |
| <X3N> merriam: you might do if there was a stream | |
| <popey> irc has worked just fine for years | |
| <popey> i dont see what makes jabber so great compared with irc | |
| <daviey> The biggest criticism i have with irc is showing of IP's - but there are workarounds | |
| <merriam> X3N: how about another aspect then? Would you like to hazard a guess as to when international character sets will work on irc? | |
| <popey> UTF-8? | |
| <popey> シ | |
| <popey> works here | |
| <merriam> It's not that it can't be done. It's that it won't be done. | |
| <popey> what wont? | |
| <merriam> popey: yes, but not between different clients. | |
| <X3N> daviey: that's also very ircd dependant, Unrealircd cloaks your ip by default | |
| <popey> fix your client then | |
| <popey> my client is fine | |
| <tsmithe> merriam, as is mine | |
| <merriam> Fix it with respect to what? There's no standard. | |
| <tsmithe> it just depends on the fonts | |
| <popey> I have a standard install of ubuntu | |
| <tsmithe> the protocols (which i assume you are discussing) work adequately | |
| <popey> it just works | |
| <tsmithe> as popey, "fix your client" | |
| <tsmithe> *as popey said | |
| <X3N> daviey: that's client side | |
| <X3N> whops * merriam | |
| <merriam> For various reasons, irc won't do for end users. It's fine for old school geeks. | |
| <daviey> personally i would like to keep irc for instances such as this, but maybe a jabber 'help me' for new users | |
| <popey> merriam: have you seen how many people there are in #ubuntu? | |
| <merriam> popey: of course. What about them? | |
| <X3N> you can use gaim for irc, non geeks get on fine with that, it all depends on what you use for your client and what IRCD is being used, not IRC as a protcol | |
| <merriam> You think they're representative of end users? | |
| <popey> there are a boatload of non-techies | |
| <popey> merriam: where is the spec that details the transition from irc to jabber? | |
| <merriam> popey: yes, but they're not representative. They're self-selecting, and anyway they tend to have difficulty with irc. | |
| <popey> your argument falls apart right there | |
| <tsmithe> that's a vast generalisation you have there | |
| <popey> any system anyone uses has a self selecting bunch of users | |
| <X3N> indeed | |
| <merriam> popey: where? | |
| <popey> implying that the selection of people in #ubuntu isnt representative could be applied to any technology | |
| <popey> people who use amazon arent representative | |
| <tsmithe> merriam, "<merriam> popey: yes, but they're not representative. They're self-selecting, and anyway they tend to have difficulty with irc" | |
| <popey> people who drive cars aren | |
| <popey> t people who use jabber arent | |
| <merriam> But #ubuntu is part of your argument. | |
| <merriam> I mean the people who are there now. | |
| <popey> I dont | |
| <merriam> I'm not talking about them. | |
| <popey> I mean over time the number of people using it | |
| <popey> not the people in there this minute | |
| <merriam> I'm talking about end users in general. | |
| * tsmithe wonders if there are graphs | |
| <popey> ditto | |
| <tsmithe> popey, do you know? | |
| <popey> again merriam where is the spec? | |
| <X3N> There wouldn't be nearly as many people in #ubuntu if they were all very technically able | |
| * daviey thinks IRC should be banned - it's too damn addictive | |
| <merriam> As I said, they should not be forced to stop using it. Don't ask me for a specification. I'm just saying jabber would probably be a good move. | |
| <popey> thats not what you initially said | |
| <merriam> <merriam> I heard there were arguments about moving ubuntu channels to jabber. I haven't looked into it. It sounds like a good idea. | |
| <popey> 20:53 < merriam> I heard there were arguments about moving ubuntu channels to jabber. I haven't looked into it. It sounds like a good idea. | |
| <popey> heh | |
| <merriam> I know what I said. | |
| <popey> if it is an argument backed by a spec then I would be inclined to pay attention to it | |
| <popey> as it is it's just one person coming onto irc telling us it's not good and that we should all be using jabber | |
| <popey> IMO | |
| <merriam> "It sounds like a good idea" is significantly different from "would probably be a good move"? | |
| <tsmithe> popey, i recall a spec; but i can't recall where... i'll dig it up. could you (or merriam) be more specific as to what you mean? | |
| <merriam> I'm talking about my experiences with both. I've been using irc for over ten years. | |
| <tsmithe> and freenode for over 5 ;) | |
| <merriam> I've spent a lot of time on undernet and ircnet too. | |
| <popey> fair enough | |
| <merriam> I have about 20 users on my jabber server. It's starting to get some serious use. | |
| <merriam> By the way, there's a Chinese user, a Czech and a Thai. There are more who aren't currently active users, including Polish, German and Japanese. I'm serious about language support too. | |
| <jamesbrose> do you need a special hard disk for SCSI? | |
| <merriam> jamesbrose: It depends on what you mean... | |
| <merriam> What do you want to do? There are SCSI hard disks, in that the hardware interface is different from ATA. | |
| <jamesbrose> Well ive basically I've got this old box and a I want to use it as a SCSI hd | |
| <jamesbrose> (merriam) | |
| <merriam> That's not a clearly stated goal. You can send scsi commands over ata. But why do you need a scsi hd? | |
| <merriam> If you need one, use one. | |
| <merriam> If you just have an old scsi hard disk, you can use it with a compatible scsi controller card. It may not be worthwhile. | |
| <jamesbrose> so I need a special hard disk? I can't use an ATA disk? | |
| <merriam> No. Why do you think you need scsi? | |
| <jamesbrose> NAS Storage | |
| <popey> you can use any kind of disk in a nas | |
| <merriam> I see. I mean, no, you can't use an ata disk as a scsi disk. | |
| <popey> e.g. a Linksys NSLU2 with two usb connected IDE disks | |
| <merriam> But presumably this is a scsi nas box. | |
| <popey> jamesbrose: do you have some more details you could give us so we aren't guessing | |
| <jamesbrose> ok | |
| <merriam> That's probably the necessary detail: it's a nas box that takes scsi drives. | |
| <jamesbrose> I've got a reasonably old box that I just use for random stuff, and its got a 200gig hard disk gathering dust, at the moment its running edgy I just want to be able to use the disk space. | |
| <popey> old box as in an old PC? | |
| <jamesbrose> I call it the old box, its just a general dell computer bought last year | |
| <jamesbrose> It wasn't ever used as a pc | |
| <popey> well, call it what you will, technically it is a pc? | |
| <merriam> heh | |
| <jamesbrose> lol yes :) | |
| <popey> you want to turn it into a general purpose network file server? | |
| <jamesbrose> yup | |
| <merriam> jamesbrose: why not use the dell box as a file server. Use nfs. | |
| <popey> i would use samba myself, not nfs | |
| <jamesbrose> Ok. I'll take a look at that | |
| <jamesbrose> I don't use windows at all | |
| <popey> i would still use samba | |
| <merriam> Well, samba is the Microsoft user's way. It works, but it's rather less flexible an it's slower. | |
| <popey> no, CIFS is the microsoft way | |
| <merriam> For example, I don't think you can mount root over samba. | |
| <popey> samba is the unix way | |
| <jamesbrose> thats why I looked into scsi because I heard it was fast? | |
| <merriam> samba is very useful if you must use cifs. | |
| <popey> *sigh* | |
| <popey> samba is also useful unix<->unix | |
| <popey> it's not only for windows | |
| <merriam> Yes, scsi can be fast. It can also be expensive. http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/95601 Seagate Momentus 100G 75.04 inc VAT | |
| <popey> depends what you wnat to do with the server | |
| <jamesbrose> I've also looked into the OS openfiler for a nas box | |
| <popey> its possible you may not even notice teh difference between SATA and SCSI | |
| <jamesbrose> knowing me I wouldn't :) | |
| <merriam> I know it's useful unix-to-unix. I've used it that way too. But nfs has some important advantages. | |
| <popey> and is also broken in a few ways | |
| <popey> (nfs that is) | |
| <popey> it has nice features though, granted | |
| <merriam> more ways than cifs? | |
| <popey> yeah | |
| <popey> have a listen to Jeremy Allison rant on about NFS | |
| <popey> (I did at fosdem last weekend) | |
| <merriam> I know. I use both. I've had plenty of bad experiences with both. | |
| <jamesbrose> hmm, is there a way to start an iso installation without actually burning it onto a disk :] | |
| <jamesbrose> ? | |
| <merriam> Yes, but it may be difficult. Mounting the iso image is easy, but I don't know what you run next... | |
| <jamesbrose> it would be easier to burn then :) | |
| <merriam> Yes. | |
| <merriam> You may sometimes have to install without a cd drive attached. I think there are various instructions around for that. | |
| <merriam> It's generally much easier to do it the usual way. | |
| <merriam> Just use cdrw. | |
| <merriam> popey: I'm using nfs now on a terminal server. It works nicely. I know nfs is bad, and there are all sorts of ways it can go wrong, but in setups like this it's very useful. | |
| <gord> alternate cd? | |
| <daviey> I use NFS as it seems cleaner; but i'm disappointed with the security aspect | |
| <gord> just mount it and run the script on the cd | |
| <merriam> daviey: yes, I use it only behind a firewall, and I had to get a hole drilled in a thick wall to eliminate a wireless bridge before I set up the terminal server. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Terminal_Server_Project | |
| <merriam> That is, I needed a completely wired network. I don't want nfs going over wireless in any form. | |
| <jamesbrose> I want to get my house wired out | |
| <jamesbrose> it would make things so much easier | |
| <merriam> You can get flat cat6 that can go under carpets. | |
| <jamesbrose> Its the cost of getting an electrician | |
| <butlershouse> or just use NoP such as Devolo Starter kits like I did. very nice answer to avoid network cables and wireless. | |
| <jamesbrose> because the house is so tall | |
| <merriam> flat cat6: http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/106442 Gigabit Ethernet (CAT 6) Cable Blue with slim connector 10m product image * £1.69 * 1.99 inc VAT | |
| <merriam> By the way, I'd like to hear of alternatives to ebuyer. It's just what I use now. | |
| <daviey> pffft - be a real man and drill holes | |
| <jamesbrose> lol | |
| <jamesbrose> I would need about 25-30 meters of the stuff | |
| <butlershouse> be a real man , drill holes <grin> then be a real married man and explain to the wife that network cables really do look attractive .. as decollage ! | |
| <merriam> 25 metres of cat53, 6 pounds with plugs | |
| <merriam> * 25 metres of cat5e, 6 pounds with plugs | |
| <merriam> Getting the cable is the easy bit. | |
| <daviey> i got away with putting in conjugate in the office - but everywhere i had to hide behind furniture and attach to skirting board | |
| <butlershouse> um conduit ? or conjugate ,.. because one if having relations in the office and the other is making connections ( or maybe they are thesame ?) | |
| <daviey> ha, make a guess :P | |
| <merriam> butlershouse: Devolo -- you mean through the mains. easy, yes, but it doesn't help much with security, speed or cost. | |
| <daviey> merriam, your joking right? | |
| <merriam> joking about what? | |
| <butlershouse> security ? not that hard to implement ? speed ? well i use it to move video from office to tv so its 70 odd mbits yep cost sucks but it does work . | |
| <X3N> ping popey | |
| <popey> pong X3N | |
| <X3N> false alarm | |
| <popey> :) | |
| <X3N> any developments re ssh ;) | |
| <popey> heh, no, not even looked at it | |
| <merriam> Gigabit speeds are nice to have if possible. I put up with wireless for a year or so. It's good to get rid of it. | |
| <butlershouse> heheh yeah wireless sucks . but the NoP is a great answer is you cant/dont/wont do wires. | |
| <merriam> yes | |
| <daviey> if your hardcore about throughput then you'll need a decent switch aswell | |
| * popey rarely needs to move stuff around that urgently | |
| <merriam> a fairly cheap netgear | |
| <popey> i am able to go and make a cup of tea if needs be | |
| <daviey> 100 is quite adequate for me | |
| * popey has gigabit ethernet in only two machines out of 13 | |
| <popey> doesnt make sense having gigabit lan here | |
| <daviey> bah - top gear - end of series!?!? already? | |
| <Seeker`> daviey: I know :( | |
| <daviey> it's a half series IMHO | |
| <Seeker`> yeah | |
| <sharperguy> what?? | |
| <daviey> what what? | |
| <butlershouse> lightbulb ? | |
| <Seeker`> ecky ecky ecky | |
| * butlershouse fetches the blackpudding ! | |
| <Seeker`> no, ecky ecky ecky ecky pitang zoop boing! | |
| <butlershouse> ahh no ecky thump then? | |
| <Seeker`> no, no ecky thump | |
| <butlershouse> hmmm. | |
| * butlershouse Ecky Thumps Seeker` and makes a dash grabbing his whippet on the way | |
| <butlershouse> hmmm Lost does Topgear | |
| <Seeker`> butlershouse: huh? | |
| <butlershouse> thump or lost ? | |
| <Seeker`> lost | |
| <butlershouse> lost has a vw camper bug on the island now and theyre trying to get it working. anyminute now they will drive it over a shark infested pool ! | |
| <daviey> wrong | |
| <butlershouse> wrong ? | |
| <daviey> they bump start it down the hill :P | |
| <butlershouse> ah so bump starting down the hill isnt similar to trying to get it working ? <grin> they were trying to get it working were they not ? | |
| <daviey> and hugo and the brit die | |
| <butlershouse> and <spoliers> it does ! | |
| <daviey> they will drive it over a shark infested pool | |
| <daviey> ?? | |
| <merriam> Hasn't Lost jumped the shark already? | |
| * popey has never seen it | |
| <butlershouse> yeah about season 2 I think . im just watching it the first two episode and the last two episodes and this one because its on . | |
| <butlershouse> thats of each season . | |
| <butlershouse> that is | |
| <merriam> daviey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark | |
| <butlershouse> well popey happy days was on a bit late . | |
| <daviey> merriam, i've never heard that before |
