<bugbot> New on planetuk: Toby Smithe: Further approaches to the BBC <http://tibsplace.co.uk/blog/index.php/2007/02/22/further-approaches-to-the-bbc/>

<rbs-tito> if only we were all like tsmithe

<mrben> morning all

<jayteeuk> Morning all.

<jayteeuk> tsmithe, you're on a mission! :)

<constrictor> does anyone know if IMDB has an api i can use? or anything similar?

<mattl> constrictor: probably has something

<constrictor> any ideas mattl

<mattl> http://www.trynt.com/trynt-movie-imdb-api/

<mattl> second hit for 'imdb api' in that G**g*e.

<mattl> constrictor: also http://www.imdb.com/interfaces

<constrictor> thanks mattl

<constrictor> i would really like to try BSD

<gord> is it just me or has the ubuntu-uk community kinda slowed down of late? not much seems to be happening these days

<jayteeuk> Things do seem a little quiet.

<jayteeuk> I'm guilty of that as much as anyone.

<jayteeuk> Although in my own defence, I have been active in other areas (not that there's been much in the way of progress to prove that so far).

<gord> pfft, Im not guilty, Im working on a screencast :P n after that Im thinking about producing loads of 'wow, feisty fawn' videos with blender to saturate things like youtube n stuff after the release in april

<jayteeuk> I've got two team-related items to follow up on I think.

<jayteeuk> But I am doing some advocacy in the background.

<gord> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/NASA_detects_dry%2C_dusty_atmospheres_on_extrasolar_planets <--- well we know one thing about aliens then, they like dust

<jamesbrose> hehe

<jamesbrose> http://www.automodding.com/gallery/data/515/crash1.jpg

<jamesbrose> http://www.automodding.com/gallery/data/515/crash2.jpg

<jamesbrose> http://www.automodding.com/gallery/data/515/crash3.jpg

<jamesbrose> wow!

<jayteeuk> Has anyone else noticed that when an application window stops responding under Beryl, Beryl will grey it out until it responds again?

<mrben> jayteeuk: yeah

<mrben> I remember seeing that as a feature

<jayteeuk> That's pretty cool.

<mrben> yup

<jayteeuk> I noticed it happen briefly before, but I thought it was just a glitch.

<gord> booo beryl!

<mrben> * beryl jumps in fright

<gord> boo anything that I can't run infact! >:(

<mattl> i really don't see the usefulness of beryl beyond 'woo. wobbly'

<jayteeuk> Me neither.

<jayteeuk> It's pointless.

<mrben> there are certain usability gains

<mrben> but for most users it's eye-candy

<gord> its just taking advantage of newer technology, without an accelerated desktop we are stuck with a very old technology based xserver that limits the kind of usability options we can take, the example just posted of an application graying out if its not responding is a great one, not really possible in a realistic way without an accelerated desktop

<mrben> example: a rotating cube for workspaces is much less scary to a new user, because he can see where his apps have gone

<mrben> another good example

<gord> I still hate that rotating cube, to be honist I think its a prime example of a bad interface

<mrben> why?

<mattl> see, i'm not even so sure about the usability gains. if it makes things less responsive, that makes it harder for people to get things done.

<mattl> the windows 95 taskbar was pretty good in that respect.

<gord> computer interfaces (such as gnome or kde) often mimic a real desktop as their base, having that real desktop suddenly jump up and spin around is bad HCI

<constrictor> i think it depends on how things jump and spin though

<gord> mattl, wait until gnome starts using the accelerated desktop, you'll see some good stuff then, not big and scary but small and 'oh yeah...' :) remember its still a baby this accelerated desktop stuff, no one has done it 'right' yet

<constrictor> i was once on a mac and i tried to switch user. i think it was the same spinning cube concept and i think it made sense

<mattl> i think actually for the switching user thing it does make sense.

<mattl> for desktops, i'm not so sure, though. do most users really use multiple desktops?

<gord> constantly, there are two types of users, people who use taskbars and people who use workspaces

<constrictor> i use two at most

<gord> if users didn't use multiple desktops then it wouldn't be in gnome

<constrictor> at least i mean

<mattl> gord: i'm sure some people might use them, but i'm not convinced people do generally.

<jayteeuk> To be honst I don't use multiple desktops as much as I probably should.

<mattl> i mean, i don't even use kde or gnome, and i find them quite hard.

<constrictor> so what do you use mattl?

<jayteeuk> But I don't think the rotating cube is an inappropriate metaphor for switching to a different workspace.

<jayteeuk> Maybe panning back and sliding the current workspace to one side would be good.

<jayteeuk> But it's not a million miles away.

<mattl> constrictor: i use ratpoison.

<constrictor> i heard about that

<constrictor> i think the name is cool

<constrictor> never seen it in action though

<mattl> essentially, no mouse.

<constrictor> ah right

<mattl> it's very basic.

<gord> the panning would make a lot more sense, the rotating cube is something that just got inherited from compiz and inturn was only in that because someone coded a silly application to do the same thing years ago.

<mattl> i just have one app full screened at a time.

<constrictor> do you use it for speed, or to show off

<mattl> er.. how would i show off with ratpoison?

<constrictor> :D

<jayteeuk> constrictor: You mean like "Look how 1337 I am, ph34r m3! I don't need a mouse!"?

<constrictor> my point exactly

<jayteeuk> To be fair, I'd happily do without a mouse a lot of the time.

<mattl> it's more of a case of using a mouse makes my wrists hurt.

<gord> if I want to show off I just switch to a fullscreen terminal, that impresses most people -_- either that or start playing a game called uplink and claim its real

<constrictor> oh my bad

<mattl> but i do find GNOME and KDE quite frustrating.

<constrictor> LOL

<mattl> gord: uplink is proprietary software.

<constrictor> gord you could also run terminal full screen and run apt-get update

<constrictor> i find that serves my purpose

<mattl> you guys must know some easily impressed people.

<constrictor> yep

<gord> yes, yes it is mattl, I happen to have a whole box full of computer games from my years of computin' and Im not shunning them just because they arn't free software, the state of free software games is awful

<mattl> also, i don't really need a mouse for irc, emacs, mail and web.

<mattl> sometimes i use the mouse with iceweasel.

<constrictor> i use the mouse a lot

<jayteeuk> The full screen terminal is probably a favourite when in less technical company.

<jayteeuk> On the train, for example.

<constrictor> yeah

<constrictor> brb

<mattl> jayteeuk: how come?

<jayteeuk> Cos less technical people fear the command line.

<jayteeuk> And peer over your shoulder with a look that says "OMFG!!! He's TYPING COMMANDS!!!"

<gord> I think its more of 'thats what they do in hollywood hacker movies, your a hacker!'

<jayteeuk> But the hackers in Hollywood are always incredibly skillful.

<jayteeuk> It's kind of odd...

<gord> I like it when someone is confronted with a log on screen, all that is there a username box and a password box, yet their magic typing lets them hack in!

<jayteeuk> To me, a hacker is someone who's extremely skilled at something anyway. A kernel hacker, for example, is someone who's an expert at writing kernel code.

<jayteeuk> To Hollywood, a hacker is someone who breaks into computers.

<jayteeuk> To me, most people who break into computers these days are script kiddies.

<jayteeuk> To Hollywood, most people who break into computers are highly skilled technicians of some sort.

<jayteeuk> OK, which one of you script kiddies is playing with my mouse?

<jayteeuk> :-P

<Norf-ubu> sorry :(

<gord> my cat played with a mouse once, shes a script kitty!

<Norf-ubu> <grins>

<jamesbrose> clever cat :]

<jayteeuk> I thought cat was used to concatenate files....

* jayteeuk watches the tumbleweed pass by.

* gord chases the tumbleweed

<jayteeuk> I keep meaning to get a decent screengrab of the UI on the CTU computers in 24.

<jayteeuk> Out of pure interest.

<jayteeuk> Oh, did anyone spot the security breach the other week?

<jayteeuk> Does anyone here even watch 24?

<jayteeuk> I guess that's a no then. :-P

<gord> you meen that annoying show that I never watch because it looks a bit boring but people won't shut up about, even when I yell at them?

<jayteeuk> Erm, possibly.

<gord> no, no I don't watch it

<bugbot> New on planetuk: Joseph Price: Re: Quit comparing us to Windows (nixternal) <http://pricechild.co.uk/?p=40>

<jayteeuk> Do DNS lookups for .net domains take ages for everyone, or is it just me?

<gord> switch to opendns jayteeuk, its a free dns server for everyone to use. since I started using it a couple of weeks ago as my routers dns sucked everything is faster and a lot more reliable

<jayteeuk> I looked at their web page and I wasn't keen on the idea of their landing page for non-existent domains. Sounds too much like Sitefinder to me.

<gord> well then you'll have to stick with your crap dns service won't you :P

<jayteeuk> It's only .net domains it seems to happen with, and it's not just my DNS -- I get exactly the same problem at home, the office and my dad's house and they each use different services.

<daviey> jayteeuk, try disabling ipv6

<jayteeuk> Good point daviey.

<Norf-ubu> ideas / feedback welcome - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKSkills

<jayteeuk> Yes, disabling ipv6 in firefox certainly seems to have helped.

<daviey> bye

<jayteeuk> Something I said?

<astopy> Norf-ubu: that's a good idea

<Norf-ubu> it was discussed at the UK team meeting, so worth a bash

<Norf-ubu> so i'll annoy evyone now till they add there details <grins>

<Norf-ubu> i so need to change the batteries in this keyboard :|

<astopy> should probably mention it on the mailing lis

<astopy> list*

<Norf-ubu> i've tried posting but it barfs it back saying "You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has

<Norf-ubu> been automatically rejected"

<gord> have you signed up that e-mail to the mailing list?

<Norf-ubu> yeah

<gord> are you sure?

<Norf-ubu> waiting on a reply at the mo

<Norf-ubu> I get the mailing list to my inbox - so assumed i was a member

<Norf-ubu> or is it a two part - join the list and then add your email ?

<Norf-ubu> i just checked - i'm defo on the list

<daviey> How did the meeting the other day go down?

<bugbot> New on planetuk: Jono Bacon: Red Nose Day charity stunt - suggestions on a postcard <http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=903>

<astopy> added myself to that wiki page -- how do I stop my surname being a link?

<daviey> Hey, i'm currently behind a restrictive firewall blocking port 110 (pop3) - other than bouncing through my home network; anybody got any ideas to get around it? Obv. i can't change the port number

<astopy> try pop via ssl, port 995 I think

<daviey> okay

<gord> why are they blocking e-mail? o_O

<daviey> gord, 'password transmitted in plain text" - well geez, the rest of the population doesn't have that problem

<daviey> well, we do - but don't care

<marmer> hy

<marmer> how can i paste a very long output from shell.?

<daviey> marmer, put it into a txt file

<marmer> how?

<daviey> so "ls /etc > hello.txt"

<daviey> that will ls the contents into hello.txt in the present working directory

<marmer> i give dmesg but is too long

<daviey> so dmesg > dmesgoutput.txt

<daviey> or you can 'grep' (trim) it to what you are searching for.

<daviey> dmesg | grep blue*

<marmer> it's ok perfect

<daviey> that will only show lines concerning bluetooth

<jamesbrose> hmm

<jamesbrose> what does OpenDNS actually do?

<daviey> it's Domain Name System - server for your network

<gord> its just a dns server run by some nice fellows, normally you get your dns server from your isp, but they are mostly crap

<jamesbrose> So if I use it, what do I get out of it?

<daviey> gord, yeah but opendns will be a leaf of your ISP's one.

<jamesbrose> (advantages etc..)

<daviey> jamesbrose, you'll notce slightly faster connections to sites you have already visted

<jamesbrose> And thats it?

<daviey> and a gold platter

<gord> its very relayable as well so when your isps dns server goes down or if you have a dodgy router like me you still can use dns services

<dsas> woo, I'm on Dapper agai

<dsas> again even.

<astopy> Norf-ubu: any luck with the list? If not, shall I post a link for you?

<Norf-ubu> no luck as yet astopy - i've checked my membership, but no joy

<dsas_> my wireless driver broke with the newest kernel and old ones wouldn't boot because of udev changes :(

<astopy> want me to post a link for you Norf-ubu?

<Norf-ubu> please

<Norf-ubu> just to confirm

<Norf-ubu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk - i've been forking off that one for info

<Norf-ubu> i've tried resubscribing

<astopy> I'd try emailing the admin

<Norf-ubu> have done - and awaiting a reply

<Norf-ubu> cheers astopy, i can receive posts but not post out

<astopy> are you a member of the Launchpad team? maybe it's linked to that somehow

<Norf-ubu> no as yet im not, might look into that

<dsas_> There's no linkup between the list and the LP team

<Norf-ubu> okey dokes - who administers the UK Mailing list ?

<dsas_> jonathon riddel was the only admin last time I knew.

<dsas_> riddell on IRC

<Norf-ubu> ta, just wait for his reply and take it from there. Most probably something borked my end

<dsas_> we were trying to get more admins at one point, no idea if that ever happened.

<astopy> due to lack of volunteers, or some other reason?

<dsas_> no, I think we had volunteers to do it. I've no idea who happened, whether anyone got in touch with the relevent people. or not.

<dsas_> loudmouthman might know more, but he's not around right now :)

<Norf-ubu> BTW - cheers for the update to the page DSas - dunno quiet what you did - but thanks anyway :P

<Norf-ubu> any my spellin sux *again* - grrrrrrrrr

<dsas_> Norf-ubu: Just moved the page so the address is UKTeam/Skills rather than UKSkills.

<dsas_> makes it more consistent and easier to keep track of

<Norf-ubu> right... at the moment that means jack to me, but i'm sure in time it will do

<dsas_> Norf-ubu: Don't worry about it :) I just changed the pagename slightly.

<Norf-ubu> ok - thats cool <grins>

<astopy> wow, I had no idea this existed

<astopy> http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2007/02/23/%23ubuntu-uk.log

<jayteeuk> Damn, you mean all those times I was sharing my porn links with the channel I was being logged?

<astopy> looks like it

<jayteeuk> Oh well, I suppose at least if my browser history and bookmarks get trashed I can still refer to the logs. :-P

<Norf-ubu> grep | porn links

<Norf-ubu> where ?

<Norf-ubu> @{

<jayteeuk> And they're just the tame ones. :-P

<Norf-ubu> tame? i was considering ringing PETA...

<jayteeuk> Oh is her number on one of the pages?

<jayteeuk> Catch you later folks.

<Norf-ubu> laters

<bugbot> New on planetuk: Caroline Ford: Friday <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/130639.html>

<bugbot> New on planetuk: Caroline Ford: Eubank peace demo <http://secretlondon.livejournal.com/130836.html>

*** mattl changes topic to " Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://www.ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is logged | Ubuntu FAQ: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members add your picture | Next UKTeam Meeting is in #ubuntu-uk on 20th March at 21:00 | We dont do meta."

<GazzaK> hey Seeker`

<Seeker`> hi

<Norf-ubu> g'day

<DaveMorris> I'm looking for some software to log into each of my machines and back them up (all ubuntu machines) any suggestions

<dsas_> DaveMorris: there's something called unison which may be what you're after. I think it is console based though.

<DaveMorris> yeah I want to to run automatically each week

<Seeker`> DaveMorris: cron job

<DaveMorris> I'd rather have increamental as well, rather than copying all the files every time, jsut copying whats changed

<dsas_> DaveMorris: That's what it does I think. it uses rsync under the hood.

<DaveMorris> I was thinking of rdiff-backup

<dsas_> "Transfers of small updates to large files are optimized using a compression protocol similar to rsync."

<dsas_> DaveMorris: There's probably scripts floating around somewhere, I manually write to dvd for mine though...

<DaveMorris> yeah I wanna backup my mp3's etc, too many DVD to bother with, also got xen images to backup

<dsas_> I can see that being a pita.

*** dsas_ is now known as dsas

<DaveMorris> is there a file on ubutnu which has a list of programs you've got installed? So if it dies, you just grab that file and run a command against it to re install everything

<AndrewWilliams> anyone know any freeview pci cards that work with linux?

<DaveMorris> yep

<DaveMorris> I'll jsut get some links for you

<DaveMorris> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/27669

<DaveMorris> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/113946 The 1st one works better, as I've had problems with this one dropping out an requiring me to restart my mythbackend if I change the chanels to quick

<AndrewWilliams> thanks :)

<DaveMorris> the 1st one's remote also works with lirc

<DaveMorris> not sure about the 2nd one

<DaveMorris> 2nd one needs firmware as well btw

<DaveMorris> and is actually a usb device so appears under lsusb rather than lspci (well appears as a usb card here) took me ages to work that one out

<AndrewWilliams> lol oh god that sounds confusing :)

<DaveMorris> you don't need fast hardware either

<DaveMorris> I'm running both cards recording 3 chanels at once on a 450 Mhz machine, but playback will require more power

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