<lucychili> we need to get a conveyancer and house insurance

<lucychili> in the next few days

<lucychili> got the loan sorted yesterday

<purserj> noice

<purserj> You landed gentry you

<eternaljoy> anyone here have a HD-DVD drive in their notebook or PC?

<Phlosten> morning all

<purserj> eternaljoy: HD-DVD? not likely

<eternaljoy> purserj: what?

<eternaljoy> purserj: there already exists notebooks with an HD-DVD drive

<eternaljoy> purserj: HD-DVD will win over the Sonys blue-ray

<purserj> Yes however they have only very recently been released

<eternaljoy> when?

<eternaljoy> so it has been realsed, so whats your point when you say : <purserj> eternaljoy: HD-DVD? not likely

<purserj> that was a response to your question

<eternaljoy> why it it unlikely seeing you said its relased LOL

<eternaljoy> u make no sense

<Hit3k> because they have no need to put them in notebooks yet?

<Phlosten> hd-dvd seems to be emerging as the front runner

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: yeah

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: It will win the war

<purserj> Phlosten: yup, it has the porn industrys support

<Phlosten> indeed

<eternaljoy> notbody wants to see Sony have the power

<eternaljoy> unless u have shares on Sony ;)

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: :)

<Phlosten> it happened with betamax vs vhs

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: true

<Phlosten> it's not about what is best

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: imho, HD-DVD already won

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: true true

<eternaljoy> the xbox360 is coming out with a HD-DVD drive soon too

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: who owns the HD-DVD format?

<Phlosten> although I believe either of them will be slow to take off

<Phlosten> eternaljoy: combined

<purserj> Phlosten: yup, the scary thing is, VHS got up because Sony wouldn't let the porn industry use betamax and now we're seeing a repeat with Sony trying to stop the porn industry using blu-ray

<eternaljoy> Intel backs HD-DVD

<Phlosten> betamax was and is far superior to vhs

<eternaljoy> purserj: u loathe the porn inductustry

<eternaljoy> good for Sony

<purserj> eternaljoy: I have no problem with the porn industry, they make a valid contribution to society

<eternaljoy> trying to stop them

<purserj> Phlosten: yup, up until a couple of years ago WIN was still doing all their taping on Beta

<eternaljoy> purserj: not in MY opinion. but realise, its my opinion

<purserj> Best quality they could get

<Phlosten> eternaljoy: "The HD DVD standard was jointly developed by a group of consumer electronics and PC companies, spearheaded by Toshiba."

<purserj> eternaljoy: I always realise its your opinion

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: ahh ok! toshiba, ok

<eternaljoy> purserj: yeah

<eternaljoy> purserj: my opinioins will differ from yours

<eternaljoy> each man is entitled to his opinion

<purserj> that would be that independant thought that Adam got for us against gods wishes wouldn't it

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: u have a notebook?

<Phlosten> nope, no notebook...and still using a vcr :)

<eternaljoy> purserj: go to #religion-debate if you want to talk such things

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: how come u live in dark ages? :)

<Phlosten> i use technology while it still works

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: ok

<eternaljoy> if U had a million $, would u upgrade?

<Phlosten> i have an 8 year old VHS player and a 30 year old tv

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: if U had a million $, would u upgrade?

<Phlosten> probably

<eternaljoy> so its a money issue

<eternaljoy> ok

<Hit3k> I could upgrade tomorrow...

<eternaljoy> Hit3k: me 2

<Fujitsu> We have a 2 year old TV (because the old one died), and a 20 year old VHS player.

<eternaljoy> but I dont

<Hit3k> "mum i want a new tv" "why" "this ones ruined" "ok then"

<eternaljoy> i will run something until it dies

<eternaljoy> im still using a 10 year old PC :)

<eternaljoy> im frugal, not cheap

<eternaljoy> <-- Mr Frugality

<eternaljoy> :)

<Phlosten> frugal is a fancy word for cheap :)

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: i strongly disagree! frugal is just the oppositie of wasting

<eternaljoy> there is a huge difference between frugality and being cheap

<Phlosten> which results in a cheap lifestyle

<eternaljoy> frugal ppl give money away to the homeless, Church etc

<eternaljoy> cheap ppl would not

<eternaljoy> its about not wasting money

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: no! a humble lifestyle

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: you say that because you are broke :)

<Phlosten> :D

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: broke ppl who owe more than they have, say that :)

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: ;)

<Phlosten> i dont owe anyone

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: yes you di

<Phlosten> i have zero debt

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: do you have a house?

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: you pay land tax, right?

<Phlosten> no

<eternaljoy> stop paying land tax and see what happens

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: i will report you then

<eternaljoy> thats fraud

<eternaljoy> everyone in AU has to pay land tax

<eternaljoy> those who dont, are breaking the law

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: where you live?

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: u there?

<Phlosten> i live in a dome, under the ocean

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: you are breaking the law if you dsont pay land tax

<eternaljoy> Phlosten: http://www.osr.nsw.gov.au/portal/page?_pageid=33,63650&_dad=portal&_schema=OSRPTLT

<eternaljoy> read that very very carefully before you tell ppl you dont pay land tax

<eternaljoy> everyone in AU has to pay land tax by LAW

<eternaljoy> those who dont, are eventually caught and sent to court

<eternaljoy> its a very serious crime

<Phlosten> are you this wierd to chat to in real life?

<Phlosten> bbl all, work to do

<eternaljoy> lol

<eternaljoy> that scared him :)

<eternaljoy> In general, your principal place of residence (your home) or land used for primary production (a farm) is exempt from land tax. You may be liable for land tax if you own or part-own

<Hit3k> I dont pay land tax?

<eternaljoy> Hit3k: why not?

<eternaljoy> u renting?

<Hit3k> not my house? its my parents

<eternaljoy> if u rent you are exempt from land tax

<eternaljoy> lol

<eternaljoy> well they pay land tax

<Hit3k> i mooch off them till im 18 then i get kicked out

<eternaljoy> Hit3k: I did that until I waas 33 ;)

<eternaljoy> then they asked me to leave :)

<DarkMageZ> no-wonder the adverage age for leaving home is 25...

<eternaljoy> lol

<eternaljoy> anyone here using bigpond adsl2?

<eternaljoy> any1 home?

<DarkMageZ> no

<eternaljoy> ok

<DarkMageZ> it's 11:09am on a saturday. we are mostly out at the beach with our laptops

<Hit3k> hmm

<Hit3k> thats a good idea

<Hit3k> but i dont want to get sand on it

<Hit3k> and does the beach have wireless?!

<DarkMageZ> gotta love the "free" wifi setup by the locals

<DarkMageZ> i think i'm logged onto one of the local hotels

<ThePizzaKing> you won't get sand if it if you're out in the water with it

<Hit3k> yeah but then you'll get salt water

<ThePizzaKing> some people are never satisfied

<Hit3k> maybe i'll just sit a table

<eternaljoy> kids :P

<siccness> uhhh

<adhoc> hi guys

<adhoc> anyone use this; http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/

<adhoc> using google maps to measure distance =)

<adhoc> for runners/cyclists etc

<Hit3k> that looks like fun

<adhoc> it has been useful for planning out trips etc

<adhoc> also for timing a ride

<Hit3k> +

<Hit3k> erk sorry ignore the +

<adhoc> along differnt routes

<adhoc> hi Hit3k, how are you this fine mornen ? =)

<Hit3k> tired and hot

<Hit3k> you?

<DarkMageZ> Hit3k, i've got terrible news :( i'm moving.

* DarkMageZ thinks Hit3k is praying that i'm not moving to melbourne

<Hit3k> oh

<Hit3k> no im not

<Hit3k> where?

<DarkMageZ> sydney

<Hit3k> oh.. crap.. thats even worse!! I go there on occasion!!

<DarkMageZ> i had no choice, it was either sydney. or stay here and die of bordem/drug overdose

<Hit3k> hey i wonder if i can find that dead whale on google maps...

<DarkMageZ> the one they exploded?

<DarkMageZ> mmm, exploded whale

<DarkMageZ> lol. do you remember that whale?

<Hit3k> no

<DarkMageZ> oh dude... some stupid place had a dead whale which floated to shore... they have nfi on how to get rid of it

<DarkMageZ> so they tried to blow it up

<DarkMageZ> peices of whale went everywhere :)

<DarkMageZ> hey Hobbsee

<Hit3k> rofl

<TheMuso> DarkMageZ: WHere are you now?

<Hit3k> i found my school on google maps

<DarkMageZ> TheMuso, nowra.

<TheMuso> Ah.

<adhoc> Hit3k: yes its plenty warm here too =/

<adhoc> 36°C today

<TheMuso> waah

<Hit3k> i dont know what it is here my weather applet broke :(

<Fujitsu> I wish Google would update their imagery of Melbourne's eastern suburbs... At the moment, it shows our oval as an oval, when it's in fact a 3-storey high pile of dirt.

<Hit3k> hahaha i just found my house

<TheMuso> Fujitsu: wow

<Hit3k> and Fujitsu their imagery of the Eastern Suburbs is bad

<Fujitsu> Hit3k, it's not that bad!

<Hobbsee> hey DarkMageZ

<siccness> the day someone creates a tablet that cures a hangover

<siccness> will be the day that I'll be happy.

<DarkMageZ> siccness, that would be a horrible invention... it would encourage drinking.

<TheMuso> haha

<siccness> DarkMageZ: so

<siccness> TheMuso: What the hell happened last night with the cricket?

<TheMuso> siccness: Australia didn't push hard enough. Thats what happened. :)

<siccness> i heard my man mr cricket got 'wicketed'?

<Hit3k> im bored

<siccness> awww

<siccness> diddums

<Hit3k> :(

<siccness> Hit3k: do they sell pancakes anywhere around here?

<Hit3k> uhh

<Hit3k> isnt there a pancake parlour somewhere?

<siccness> is there..hmm

<Hit3k> I dont know

<Hit3k> i think theres one at knox...

<siccness> yeah a lil too busy there tho

<Fujitsu> There's one at Eastland, but that's the only one I know of.

<siccness> ahh yeah, above kfc

<Hit3k> bit far for pancakes

<siccness> yea

<siccness> there goes that idea

<Fujitsu> siccness: You could always make your own...

<siccness> Yeah not exactly in a 100% active state to do such :|

<siccness> Plus I don't actually know how to

<siccness> Fujitsu: Is there a command that lists all the files that a particular application reads/writes to?

<Fujitsu> lsof might do it.

<siccness> ok

<siccness> thanks

<Fujitsu> np

<siccness> that my friend, is sweet.

<Fujitsu> That's its job.

<Fujitsu> No need for expensive Winternals tools.

<siccness> Heheh

* siccness thinks this will be very useful

<siccness> looks like everyones gettting caught up with website designs to look like vista

<cps> they are just adding a bit of "wow" to their sites

<siccness> heh

<cps> it's like how everything was aqua after mac os X or transparent so you can see the circuit boards after the imac

<cps> or brown after ubuntu came out

<Hit3k> the wow does not start now

<ThePizzaKing> I don't know about you, but when I found out what Vista was going to be like I thought 'wow, what was that Billy thinking?'

<cps> I love how cheesy that whole "the wow starts now" slogan is

<Hit3k> 'we have to steal that mac os x eye candy'

<Hit3k> siccness, according to your weather applet how hot is it?

<ThePizzaKing> the wow started when Mac came out with all their eye candy and innovations

<Hit3k> then it was even more wowed with compiz/xgl

<siccness> 22C

<siccness> but im not using the weather app anymore

<siccness> i just use bom

<Hit3k> might make a perl script which connects to bom and gets the weather

<siccness> Hit3k: be easier to just whip up a bash script that does it

<Hit3k> siccness, I need to get acquainted with regex though

<Tatey> http://www.mteege.de/pic/mmhs.jpg <-- OpenBSD - NO REMOTE HOLES FOR 2 HOURS!

<Hit3k> lol

<Hit3k> I need to obtain an openBSD cd

<Hit3k> ah openBSD got pwned

<DarkMageZ> oh, i was thinking there was a remote hole found in openbsd.

<DarkMageZ> that would have put a shock in their 7 year claim

<Tatey> DarkMageZ: one has been found

<Hit3k> yep

<Hit3k> boom shaka laka

<Tatey> if you look at the website now it says "Only one hole in the default install for over 10 years"

<DarkMageZ> oh yeah, that's what i was thinking of

<Tatey> choice based on whatever spiel Dell feeds them. If all computers are plastered with Windows stickers and the media passes on one-sided bullshit like "Windows is the only serious option, industry standard, blah blah blah", then people aren't making an informed choice.

<Tatey> errr

<Tatey> sorry

<Hit3k> what the.

<DarkMageZ> totally accurate that statement is

<Tatey> heh, was pasting from a forum

<Tatey> but not ehre

<Hit3k> yeah it is

<purserj> TheMuso: here's a thread you might be interested in: http://www.freelancewebdeveloper.net.au/topic.php?id=158

<Tatey> http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/0110248&from=rss <-- haha, scroll down to like the 3rd or 4th comment

<Hit3k> Tatey, about the nv driver?

<Tatey> heh yea

<Tatey> there's about three funny comments in the first couple

<Hit3k> i forgot what i was gonna do

<Hit3k> I think it had something to do with e17 devel libs

<elkbuntu> cafuego_, *pouts* any plans to update the deb?

<Hit3k> I hate building from SVN

<Hit3k> or CVS

<Tatey> why for?

<Hit3k> I'm gonna build E17 and the last time i built from SVN/CVS was songbird

<Phlosten> howdy all

<Hit3k> howdy

<Tatey> hi Phlosten

<Phlosten> hi Tatey, hows arch these days?

<Tatey> fantastic :)

<Tatey> playing with a virtualisation app called "VirtualBox"

<Tatey> pretty cool

<Phlosten> ah yeah, you mentioned that the other day

<Phlosten> i have some space waiting for linux of some sort. i might arch it

<Tatey> yuo should :)

<Tatey> just remember to grab the 0.8 cd's first

<Phlosten> i had kubuntu and was running win2k in vmware but it just wasnt good enough. so i wiped it and setup windows for dual boot

<Phlosten> arch is alright for a Duron right?

<Tatey> yes, Duron is K7

<Tatey> I'm installing Arch in a VM right now

<Tatey> heh

<Hit3k> I need to cleanup /home/<me>

<Phlosten> i cant find 0.8 CDs?

<Tatey> ftp://ftp.archlinux.org/other/0.8/i686

<Phlosten> which CDs do I need?

<Tatey> only the base CD, realistically

<siccness> Tatey: When did that come out?

<Tatey> it's been out for quite a while

<Tatey> these are beta CD's, not the official release

<siccness> I was lookin for it the other day

<Tatey> the official release will be based off these CD's

<siccness> aahh they are to

<Tatey> they are much better than the current release CD's, and everyone uses them to install new systems

<Tatey> there are bugs here and there, they mostly affect very new systems

<Phlosten> they are really just a place to start anyway

<Tatey> Phlosten: pretty much, but it's nicer to start off these ones

<Tatey> there are substantial changes between 0.7.2 and current

<Phlosten> downloading now, will be done in 15 mins

<Phlosten> this second machine is a Duron 1200 with only 128MB ram

<Tatey> ouch, might want to chuck on a lightweight DE/WM

<Phlosten> runs ok with Kubuntu

<Phlosten> so Arch should be better :)

<Phlosten> oh, mistake. its got 256MB ram

<Tatey> think I might take a nap

<siccness> Heh

<Phlosten> nanna nap!

*** ThePizzaKing_ is now known as ThePizzaKing

<Tatey> been up since 6:30...

<Kamping_Kaiser> Tatey, thats gotta hurt :/

* Kamping_Kaiser has been up since 12:50

* Hit3k has been up since 10:30

* Hit3k wishes they'd hurry up and release 2.6.20 :(

<Phlosten> whats happening peoples?

* Fujitsu is waiting for mplayer to compile.

<Phlosten> hmm, i posted a message to linux-aus and it hasnt turned up yet :/

<Phlosten> Fujitsu: under Ubuntu?

<Fujitsu> Phlosten, yeah.

<Fujitsu> Attempting to get 1.0rc1 into an upload-ready state.

<Cyvros> Hehehe.

<Cyvros> I just got 3ddesktop working on Openbox.

<Kamping_Kaiser> eek. kgoetz_ what happened :S

*** kgoetz_ is now known as kgoetz

<Cyvros> Best thing in Vista? Flip 3D.

<Cyvros> The only thing I want to see imported to Linux, if it hasn't been already.

<Fujitsu> What is it?

<Fujitsu> The viewing the windows at different depths?

<cafuego_> elkbuntu: update the deb?

<Kamping_Kaiser> iirc freedesktop.org has more weirded out desktops then you could poke a stick at - if you need it its there ;)

<cafuego_> elkbuntu: did they release *another* new version?

<Cyvros> Fujitsu: Scrolling through windows.

<cafuego_> Cyvros: it's called alt-tab and X has done it for years ;-)

<Cyvros> I mean, sure, there's 3ddesktop, which I finally got working, but it's only for workspaces.

<Cyvros> cafuego: Flip 3D is different.

<Cyvros> And I know about Alt-Tab. I've only used it for 8 years. ;)

<cafuego_> Cyvros: beryl/compiz does it with complete window contents

<Cyvros> cafuego: Can I use Beryl or Compiz with Openbox?

* Cyvros really doesn't feel like using something heavier, like GNOME.

<Cyvros> Even though I like GNOME.

<cafuego_> Cyvros: No, as they are window managers.

<Cyvros> cafuego: Oh.

<Cyvros> Okay.

<Cyvros> I mean, all I really want is Flip 3D, basically. For showing-off purposes only, of course.

<Cyvros> I don't care for much else. :D

<cafuego_> elkbuntu: downlaoding, will package tonight

<Cyvros> Ah well. I'll try Beryl or Compiz again.

<Cyvros> I tried getting it working a while back, but stuffed it up.

<Cyvros> Somehow.

<yama> elkbuntu: your recent blog post appears to be about free software people, yet you repeatedly mention 'open source'. Yes, there is a big difference.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - have u ever used flip3d ...

<dj_tchiseen> cause i dont think it's really that great

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: No. I just want to look at it. :D

<dj_tchiseen> yea

<Cyvros> I've used something similar on XP.

<dj_tchiseen> it is impressive though

<Cyvros> Shareware thing.

* dj_tchiseen is on vista

<Cyvros> Any good?

* Cyvros does not have high hopes.

<dj_tchiseen> ah, you know, it's actually not bad

<dj_tchiseen> once you turn off all the security pop-ups

<dj_tchiseen> >_>

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: LOL.

<Cyvros> For a second there, I though you said, "Once you turn it off."

<Cyvros> Hehehe.

<dj_tchiseen> :D

<dj_tchiseen> tru!

<dj_tchiseen> i mean, it looks really good,

<dj_tchiseen> and i have a beat box so it doenst matter if its resource hungry

<Cyvros> LOL.

<Cyvros> TopDesk! That's the name of it.

<dj_tchiseen> and it has a few good features,

<Cyvros> Man, that was cool.

<dj_tchiseen> topdesk for xp ?

<Cyvros> Yeah.

<Cyvros> One of the options was basically a clone of Flip 3D.

<Cyvros> I used it until the 30 days expired. :D

<dj_tchiseen> i just automatically reach for alt tab

<Cyvros> So do I.

<Cyvros> TopDesk replaced Alt-Tab, but I think I mapped it to Win-Tab.

<Cyvros> Just to get the, er, 'full experience'.

<dj_tchiseen> yea

<Cyvros> I was also using various Aero Glass skins in Window Blinds.

<Cyvros> :D

<dj_tchiseen> maybe ill remap flip3d to alt tab

<Cyvros> Hehehe.

<Cyvros> Probably would help.

<dj_tchiseen> :D

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - u wanna know my favorite thing that's in vista but not xp -

<dj_tchiseen> the search from the start menu

<Cyvros> Basically what I do is have five desktops and put one app in each, basically. Or one group in each.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: That did sound neat.

<Cyvros> Although I heard it was slightly, er, iffy.

<dj_tchiseen> its really sharp

<Cyvros> It is?

<dj_tchiseen> yea

* Cyvros must've been reading a review of one of the betas, then.

<dj_tchiseen> cause it searches your outlook folders,

<dj_tchiseen> in beta it was crap

<dj_tchiseen> er, at least when i tried it in like 52.. somthing

<dj_tchiseen> anyways ive got all my rss feeds in outlook,

<Cyvros> Ah.

<dj_tchiseen> eg torrents,

<dj_tchiseen> so its extremely useful

<dj_tchiseen> however the more files you index the slower it is,

<dj_tchiseen> but the fewer files u index the less useful it is :S !

<Cyvros> Ah.

<Cyvros> I tried out Google Desktop and Windows Live Desktop Search a few times - they seemed all right.

<Cyvros> I used Beagle at the moment.

<Cyvros> Before I reinstalled Ubuntu (I didn't realise I could reinstall GRUB :D), I used the SUSE Slab in GNOME, and it had the search box in the menu.

<dj_tchiseen> lol i just googles beagle and its all dogs, and im like, no no no,

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: LOL.

<Cyvros> Sorry.

<dj_tchiseen> :D

<Cyvros> I imagine the Vista one works much the same.

<Cyvros> Took me four years to start regularly-using the XP start menu.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - it is probobly strikingly similar

<dj_tchiseen> the start menu is improved in vista

<dj_tchiseen> more user friendly for power users with lots of aps

<Cyvros> Okay.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - i find that sometimes when in ubuntu when browsing folders , if i start typing it brings up a box,

<dj_tchiseen> what is that

<Cyvros> Is it hard to get used to? As in the new menus?

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Like a search function.

<Cyvros> I used to think it was GNOME-only, but it seems to be in all sorts of apps.

<Cyvros> Damned handy.

<dj_tchiseen> hmm

<dj_tchiseen> yea i use that in FF lots

<Cyvros> Same.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - what do u mean abt menus though?

<Cyvros> I've got some folders with hundreds of files and I use the search box in Thunar.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: The program menus no longer opening in 'pop-outs'.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - would be good for my 'documents' folder. heh

<dj_tchiseen> ah

<dj_tchiseen> yea

<Cyvros> It's the sort of... all-in-one box. :D

<dj_tchiseen> well

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Yeah.

<dj_tchiseen> in that way, i suppose it's a little smarter

<dj_tchiseen> its nice beucase if there's a folder with only another folder in it, itll just open the sub folder

<Cyvros> That's good.

<dj_tchiseen> but if you have a lot of progs, you can end up scrolling a bit

<Cyvros> Ah.

<dj_tchiseen> honestly i just use the text search

<Cyvros> I used to categorise things in sub-menus. :D

<Cyvros> Probably easier that way.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - you could very easily do that

<dj_tchiseen> i did too

<dj_tchiseen> in programs - up at the top i had it ALL sorted

<Cyvros> Ah.

<dj_tchiseen> but really it was a pain every time u installed somthing to make sure the path was right

<Cyvros> I can guess.

<dj_tchiseen> in vista, you just do whatever, and text search it

<Cyvros> What UI do you use? Classic, Basic, Standard or Glass?

<dj_tchiseen> aero glass

<dj_tchiseen> default colour with less colour intensity

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: The title bars getting confusing?

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Okay.

<dj_tchiseen> ive seen somewhere that i think you can mod the transparency of the glass too, which would be neat totry

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: That'd be interesting.

<dj_tchiseen> the title bars are not confusing at all

<Cyvros> It'd be great if you could have different 'patterns' for the glass. :D

<dj_tchiseen> when u maximize it goes opaque

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - i agree

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Oh. I never knew about that.

* Cyvros can just see Tux patterns in Aero Glass.

<Cyvros> How opaque does it go?

<dj_tchiseen> im sure billy g would love that ;) !

<Cyvros> Completely?

<dj_tchiseen> yes

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Yeah. Even better, the big Steve B himself.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Interesting.

<Cyvros> I never realised that.

<dj_tchiseen> also, when you run fullscren/3d apps it goes to 'basic'

<elkbuntu> cafuego, i guess so, since the client refuses to connect because there's a newer version out

<Cyvros> All along, I though these skinners had got it wrong. :D

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - i feel bad almost for talking about vista in a ubuntu chat :D

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Okay.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Hehehe. I have inner turmoil myself.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - it looks pretty good!

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: And that's what matters to consumers.

<Cyvros> Never mind needing 4 gig of RAM.

<dj_tchiseen> but then, you have to consider that when XP came out, i thought it looked good too

<elkbuntu> yama, actually, it was at 'open source puritans' people who will *only* use non-proprietary software

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Hehehe... Fisher-Price?

<Cyvros> Depending on mood, I'd love Luna or hate Luna.

<Fujitsu> I can't stand Luna.

<Cyvros> That's why I had about three dozen VSes and WindowBlinds skins. :D

<dj_tchiseen> eventually i just went back to classic

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Same.

<Cyvros> I usually use either Classic or an Aero Basic clone.

<dj_tchiseen> i had a panther skin for a while

<Cyvros> Sometimes a Longhorn Aero or Jade clone.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Same.

<dj_tchiseen> i have to say that i really love the ubuntu basic desktop though

<Cyvros> I kept reinstalling XP after stuffing around too much with system resources with all the 'transformation packs'.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: It's nice.

<dj_tchiseen> i modify it a bit,

<Cyvros> I must mention, though, and I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but the caption buttons with Clearlooks 2.0 and Ubuntu Human are Vista-like. Or vice versa.

<dj_tchiseen> but i always end up going back to the abs. basic

<Cyvros> Okay.

<Cyvros> What do you mean by that?

<dj_tchiseen> o

<dj_tchiseen> just the standard 'human' theme with the clean bars on top and bottom

<Cyvros> Okay.

<Cyvros> For a while there, I used the Aero Glass pattern for my bars.

<Cyvros> Didn't look too nice.

<dj_tchiseen> heh

<Cyvros> Thank goodness Tatey and siccness convinced me to go to Openbox.

* Cyvros hugs *boxiness.

<Tatey> hi guys

<Cyvros> Tatey: Eyyyyyyyy!

<dj_tchiseen> right on cue

<Cyvros> It's... The Man!

<Cyvros> Or one of them.

<Tatey> heh, I'm queue now?

<Cyvros> Just mentioned you.

<Cyvros> And how you and siccness converted me to OB.

<Tatey> oh, I see :)

* Cyvros hugs Tatey... in a good way.

<dj_tchiseen> i havnt tried that yet

<siccness> My name mentioned, yet AGAIN.

<Cyvros> siccness: Muaha!

<dj_tchiseen> lol

<siccness> ;-)

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Took me ages to get used to.

<Cyvros> No taskbar.

<Cyvros> I only switched after I bloated Fluxbox too much and completely crashed Blackbox.

<dj_tchiseen> saw a mates linux desktop with that today

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Did it look beautiful? ;)

<Tatey> Fluxbox apparently supports shadows

<Cyvros> Tatey: Uh huh.

<dj_tchiseen> his computer was very very nice

<dj_tchiseen> he's a dude

<Cyvros> Tatey: Does title-bar transparency, too.

<Tatey> though, ATM, I'm considering playing with Beryl, that is, only using Emerald

<dj_tchiseen> he's a pro graphics designer right

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Good to know.

<Cyvros> Tatey: Same.

<Cyvros> I'm going to try Beryl again.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - is it just me or does noone post screenies

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: I do sometimes.

<Cyvros> When I need help.

<dj_tchiseen> oh

<dj_tchiseen> i was talking abt to show off

<dj_tchiseen> hehe

<Cyvros> Yesterday, I was thinking about making some sort of "/screenie" or "/linkie" function.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Hehehe. I'm just too ugly. :D

<Cyvros> Okay. Almost there.

* Cyvros backs up .xinitrc.

<dj_tchiseen> Cyvros - noone wants to see you, ur desktop

<dj_tchiseen> :D

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: I am my desktop.

<dj_tchiseen> O_o

<Cyvros> What do you think I am, human?

<dj_tchiseen> ....

<dj_tchiseen> o i get it its a joke

<Cyvros> Uh huh.

<Cyvros> :D

<dj_tchiseen> o dear.

<Cyvros> My real form, however, is very undecided.

<dj_tchiseen> im like my desktop i suppose

<Tatey> Cyvros: the reason I liked Beryl was because it supported some Mac OS X like features, such as "Expose" which makes managing multiple windows without a taskbar, painless

<dj_tchiseen> very wide

<Cyvros> Tatey: Nice.

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: LOL.

<Cyvros> What I love about Blackbox and Openbox is how customisable they are.

<dj_tchiseen> Tatey - does it do the 'transparent cube' ive seen?

<Tatey> Cyvros: I agree :)

<Tatey> dj_tchiseen: apparently so, but I'm not really interested in that

<Cyvros> Openbox took a while to get used to, but I can make a new menu item or make a new shortcut anytime I like.

<Tatey> while it's cool, I like the expose feature

<Cyvros> dj_tchiseen: Transparent cube?

<Tatey> http://youtube.com/watch?v=oocWI-1bzmQ <--- you can see it here

<dj_tchiseen> like, the cube with ur 4 desktops, cept transparent

<Tatey> all his windows just "appear" there

<Cyvros> Oh.

<Tatey> you can disable all the wanky effects if you want

<Cyvros> LOL.

<Cyvros> Ah. Window-wobbling.

<Tatey> I personally leave that on

<Tatey> but I turn it "down" alot

<Tatey> so it doesnt go so crazy

<Cyvros> "The practice of wobbling one's windows with fancy effects in a Linux system."

<Tatey> it's only just there sort of thing

<Cyvros> LOL.

<Cyvros> Would it only allow up to six desktops, though?

<Tatey> unlimitered

<Tatey> *unlimited

<Tatey> even though it looks like a cube, it just keeps switching

<Cyvros> Okay.

<Tatey> if that makes any sense?

<Cyvros> Ah.

<Cyvros> I think so.

<Tatey> it doesn't sound logical

<Tatey> you can though, increase how many sides it has, if you want

<dj_tchiseen> its like a 10-dimensional surface

<dj_tchiseen> its like an einstein-bose condensate desktop!

<Cyvros> LOL.

<dj_tchiseen> i'd have a nonagonal

<dj_tchiseen> cause its fun to say

<Cyvros> "Logic-bending accessories sold separately."

<Cyvros> DAMN, that is fun to say.

<Tatey> I need to know if I can get a root menu under Beryl though

<Cyvros> Tatey: Oh.

<Cyvros> I wonder if you can right-click the desktop.

<Tatey> that's a root menu :)

<Cyvros> I can't live without that now.

<Cyvros> I use Windows and I need a browser, I go for the desktop. :D

<Cyvros> And the slit, too. I've got all these billions of dockapps (not to mention Conky). Now I can't live without them.

<Cyvros> Can Beryl and Emerald run on top of Openbox?

<Tatey> No

<Tatey> Emerald is the compositing WM that supports all the affects

<Cyvros> Okay.

<Tatey> Openbox is also a WM. You can't have two WM's at the same time

<Cyvros> So I'll need to replace .xinitrc.

<Tatey> not replace, you can adjust

<Tatey> up to you

<Cyvros> I had no idea what Emerald was. Never even heard of it until an hour ago. :D

<Cyvros> So I can leave everything except exec openbox?

<Tatey> Beryl refers to the technology and project, more or less

<Cyvros> And replace with exec beryl-manager?

<Tatey> no, you'd need to comment that out

<Tatey> and put exec emerald

<Cyvros> Ah.

<Tatey> or something

<Cyvros> Okay.

<Tatey> I don't know

<Tatey> I'm reading about it now

<Cyvros> I'm half-following this - http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Edgy#How_to_install_Beryl.2FAIGLX_.28Nvidia.29

<Tatey> if I can't get a root menu, I won't be using it

<Cyvros> LOL.

<Cyvros> Well, here goes.

<Cyvros> BBL.

<Tatey> http://forum.beryl-project.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1110

<Tatey> oh, he's gone

<jordn> Dammit. Couldn't get it to work.

<jordn> The WM's completely empty.

<jordn> Beryl refuses to work.

<Tatey> oh?

<jordn> Yeah.

<jordn> Dunno what to do.

<jordn> I might just go back to OB.

<Tatey> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beryl#No_Desktop.2C_Beryl_as_window_manager_only

<jordn> Er...

<jordn> Hang on. I'm in console.

<jordn> I need to learn how to do desktops in console.

<siccness> eh?

<jordn> BRB.

<jordn> Workspaces in console.

<jordn> If it can be done.

<siccness> so run more than 2 terminals?

<jordn> Basically.

<siccness> Yeah it can be done

<siccness> ctrl+alt F#

<jordn> Ah, okay.

<jordn> Neat.

<jordn> Thanks.

<siccness> np

* Phlosten loads Feisty Herd 3 live CD

<cafuego_> elkbuntu: Uploading, should be done in 5 mins.

<elkbuntu> w00t

<elkbuntu> you rock

<jordn> BBL, testing again.

<jordn_> Bah.

<jordn_> Still didn't work.

<jordn_> Thanks for the link, though.

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: SL?

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, second life :)

<Fujitsu> That's what I thought.

<Fujitsu> Addicted yet?

<Kamping_Kaiser> play sl and your brains will be eaten by midget frogs!!!!!

<siccness> Do employers pay for position or person?

<siccness> or is it a bit of both these days?

<Hit3k> oh god

<Hit3k> SL I downloaded the view source

<Hit3k> for some code haxings

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, the things that say 'click me' wont let me click them :(

<yama> how intuitive :p

<Fujitsu> Heheh.

<Fujitsu> I think I played SL for a whole 5 minutes or something 6 months ago.

<elkbuntu> heh

<jordn_> exit

<jordn_> Dammit.

<Cyvros> exit

<jordn__> Odd, that.

<merlin-linux> hi all, has anyone played around with GTKWifi

<Hit3k> nope, sorry merlin-linux

<siccness> 10am Monday Morning, NFL Superbowl (Colts vs Bears) :D

<siccness> SBS!

<Phlosten> suuuuperbowl!

<siccness> You betcha!

<siccness> My money is on the Colts

<Phlosten> My money is on the bet that I don't watch it :D

<siccness> Yeah I got TAFE on Monday

<siccness> So I /might/ have to take the day off.

<Phlosten> heh, first day

<siccness> Heh, first day back and I don't even rock up. Class.

<Phlosten> i start Tafe tuesday night

<Phlosten> cant do daytime as the other half is starting a course of her own

<siccness> Fair enough.

<siccness> If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

<Phlosten> err hang on, let me remember

<siccness> Hahaha

<Phlosten> I'll be 29 this year

<adhoc> evenen all

<siccness> Seems like a lot of older (I said older, and not old :P) people do tafe/uni

<siccness> Evening champ

<Phlosten> siccness: lots of people returning to tertiary education

<siccness> Yeah, good to see really.

* adhoc is sitting at home after a long drive today

<Phlosten> CSU says that over 50% of their students are over 30 these days

<siccness> Yeah? Jebus.

* adhoc is relaxing with a beer ...

<siccness> <--relaxing with a bourbon

<Phlosten> ooh beer, brb

<siccness> Heheh

<adhoc> beent alking to one of the guys at work that brews his own beer

<adhoc> so wrestled a case of long necks home this time instead of a case of stubbies

<adhoc> tallies have these strange crimp on caps, not regular twist tops..

<Phlosten> i think i am just over half way through my stock

<siccness> I've just about givin up on my homebrew setup

<siccness> So much easier to just buy beer :|

<adhoc> siccness: yeah, but wheres the fun in that?

<Phlosten> i dont drink a lot so a couple of batches of beer lasts me for ages

<siccness> Well, it's fun when I'm half pissed and you're still cleaning out the containers :)

<adhoc> siccness: the aim of the game is not to get pissed.

<siccness> exactly, that's why i said half :)

<adhoc> hmmm

<adhoc> bloke at work can brew at home for 1/6th the cost of baught ...

<Phlosten> i think i worked out that it cost me about 70 cents a long neck

<siccness> hmm

<adhoc> Phlosten: thats pretty good =)

<siccness> does that including bottles?

<adhoc> Phlosten: do you crush your own grain ?

<Phlosten> no

<adhoc> siccness: only if you pay for the beer in the bottles up front ;)

<siccness> heh

<Phlosten> sorry, its about 25-30 cents a long neck

<adhoc> siccness: this is why i'm getting a coupla cases of tallies first ;)

<Phlosten> about $15 for a tin and the sugar

<siccness> theres 9 ltrs in a slab of stubbies

<adhoc> .30 * 12 = $3.60 ?

<Phlosten> i think the beer has already gone to my head

<siccness> my kit does 120litrs

<siccness> wait

<Phlosten> $15 / 30 long necks = 50 cents each

<siccness> that cant be right

<adhoc> 12 long necks in a case?

<elkbuntu> this is really annoying, i cant figure why i cant click on the 'click me' things :(

<adhoc> elkbuntu: um ...

<elkbuntu> adhoc, second life

<Phlosten> whats a long neck worth in the shop?

<siccness> yeah, my brew kit is 2x60litres

<siccness> so 120 litres all up

<siccness> (the fermenters that is)

<Phlosten> you have 2 large fermenters?

<siccness> yeah

<Phlosten> i have a small one and a large one i bought off an old guy with a heap of bottles

<siccness> so all up, it makes 13 slabs of beer

<Phlosten> i have about 120 long neck bottles

<siccness> this is so far from accurate

<siccness> :\

<Phlosten> a years supply for me :)

* siccness thinks the bourbon has gotten to his head

<siccness> ill take a picture for ya too, Phlosten :)

<Phlosten> i thought feisty was supposed to have 3d desktop?

<elkbuntu> if by 'supposed to' you mean 'they were considering enabling 3d by default and hence installing binary drivers by default' sure

<Phlosten> oh right, I thought it was a done deal

<elkbuntu> s/hence installing/hence considering installing/

<elkbuntu> it was never a done deal, it just got alot of people thinking it was

<elkbuntu> and i have strong suspicions it's died on technical grounds

<Phlosten> yeah

<elkbuntu> something that happens when the distro's core developers unanimously disagree with the concept

<Phlosten> Feisty is still nice

<Phlosten> installed Kubuntu, I like the new KNetworkManager

<elkbuntu> Phlosten, to be honest, the whole idea was Mark having a "Ooh! Shiny!" moment ;)

<Phlosten> sounded that way

<elkbuntu> cafuego_, so um, i cant click on 'click me' things. is this the client or my computer? :(

<Phlosten> i tried installing second life on my windows install. it borked at my graphics card so I gave up

<Phlosten> elkbuntu: maybe this may help http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/articles/second-life-with-linux

<Phlosten> it mentions disabling alt-click?

<Phlosten> howdy MotherLUG

<yama> Mark's had a few 'ooh shiny' moments. I still remember his influence over Nautilus spatial behaviour a few years ago

<MotherLUG> Phlosten, Hello there

<yama> hi MotherLUG

<MotherLUG> Evening Everyone

<MotherLUG> Hey yama

<yama> Phlosten: I'm sending you an e-mail

<Phlosten> ooh email

<Phlosten> re: seniors expo?

<yama> ok, sent

<yama> yes

<Phlosten> got it

<elkbuntu> yama, is that the "open window where it last existed" thing?

<yama> elkbuntu: yes

<yama> people were like, "why is my nautilus window jumping around the screen?"

<elkbuntu> i like my windows to stay where they are, and not proliferate

<yama> spatial isn't a bad idea, but sabdfl made it worse

<yama> Phlosten: let me know what you think about it. I'm currently writing a magazine article about FLOSS and I'm going to include some of those points

<Phlosten> yama: it's good

<Phlosten> I didn't really want to get involved with this expo at first as I have a lot on my plate this year, but I figured no one else would do it

<Phlosten> so my aim is to keep is very very simple

<Phlosten> it

<adhoc> expo?

<Phlosten> adhoc: seniors computer association expo

<adhoc> ah ok

<Phlosten> coninciding with seniors week

<adhoc> hi Hobbsee

<adhoc> Phlosten: when is that? is that like O'week?

<adhoc> an orientation week?

<adhoc> hi MotherLUG

<Phlosten> adhoc, they are holding an expo thing in dubbo this year, techseniors or something

<adhoc> seniors, as in over 55's?

<Phlosten> elderly people zooming around on segways with their ipods :)

<adhoc> ah

<Phlosten> yeah, over 55's

<Phlosten> they get a bit of support from MS, but they are also interested in open source as well

<MotherLUG> adhoc, Evening to you

<adhoc> actaully, now that you mention it, i have seen a few, grey haired folk, in the city with ipods'n'stuff

<Hobbsee> hey adhoc

<adhoc> how you been Hobbsee ?

<Hobbsee> adhoc: good...at wokr :(

<adhoc> MotherLUG: hows the weekend treating you ?

<adhoc> Hobbsee: the internets at work, can't be all bad =)

<MotherLUG> very well now that it's tools down and time for play

<Hobbsee> adhoc: not where i work!

<adhoc> MotherLUG: =)

<adhoc> Hobbsee: oh.

<Hobbsee> pity :)

<adhoc> MotherLUG: i been driving the mrs about all day@

<adhoc> MotherLUG: and having fish and chips for lunch

<adhoc> MotherLUG: and pizza for tea

<adhoc> MotherLUG: been *so* stressful ...

<MotherLUG> adhoc, does the other half not drive?

<adhoc> Hobbsee: i have a serious internet connection at work and no time to play =/

<adhoc> Hobbsee: so tempting, but i don't ...

<adhoc> MotherLUG: she does, just my turn

<MotherLUG> ahhh

<MotherLUG> I wish

<adhoc> MotherLUG: i don't get to drive during the week =(

<Hobbsee> adhoc: awwww

* MotherLUG makes a mental note to hassle purserj about getting his license so more

<adhoc> Hobbsee: i need to use the internets fer my work, but ...

<MotherLUG> s/so/some/

<adhoc> MotherLUG: he not got one?

<MotherLUG> NOPE

<adhoc> has he got a bicycle?

<MotherLUG> adhoc, I am so looking forward to the day I can say "Home James"

<adhoc> hehehehehehe

<MotherLUG> Hey Davo_Dinkum

<Davo_Dinkum> MotherLUG: Howdy.

<adhoc> MotherLUG: has he been wicked in his youth ?

<elkbuntu> gee thanks MotherLUG

* elkbuntu just spat coffee at that

<adhoc> hi Davo_Dinkum

<elkbuntu> chortling sucks

<Davo_Dinkum> adhoc: Hwy.

<Davo_Dinkum> Hello all.

<MotherLUG> sorry elkbuntu

<adhoc> Davo_Dinkum: are you telling me i need to get on the hiway?

<MotherLUG> adhoc, nope, just not in a hurry I guess

<Davo_Dinkum> adhoc: *Hey.

<Davo_Dinkum> Typo

<MotherLUG> why would you be if you have your own chauffeur

<Davo_Dinkum> Didn't notice it.

<adhoc> Davo_Dinkum: oh, well, then .... thats all right then ...

<Davo_Dinkum> Heh

<zap0> Hello, linux noob... can someone give me a few reasons as to why i should choice this distro over others ?

<adhoc> MotherLUG: some people have all the luck

<Davo_Dinkum> zap0: Don't it sucks.

<Davo_Dinkum> Use gNewSense.

<zap0> what is that ?

<adhoc> zap0: yeah, its rottenly easy to use, no cool cvalue in the installer at all, and far to easy to add packages its uncool, go use gentoo

<Davo_Dinkum> Another distro >>> www.gnewsense.org

<adhoc> its a guilt free ubuntu really, with out the cool bits

<Davo_Dinkum> adhoc: zap0 is *new* to the game, he's not going to start compliong stuff.

* adhoc runs gNewSense...

<Davo_Dinkum> s/he/she/whatever

<yama> zap0: one thing to remember is that we are all one big (mostly happy) community, so don't let petty distro wars discourage you

<adhoc> no flash, no java, no mplayer =(

<Davo_Dinkum> adhoc: The freedom is great, isn't it?

<yama> zap0: what do you normally do on your computer?

<Davo_Dinkum> Wait, mplayer?

* adhoc became a grumpy old codger ...

<zap0> i am programmer for 8 years, i dream gcc commands.

<Davo_Dinkum> adhoc: Why is mplayer out?

<adhoc> libraries are non free =/

<Davo_Dinkum> zap0: Oh OK.

<yama> zap0: if you love the 'gcc screensaver', try gentoo :)

* purserj stops playing games and notices he's being hassled

<Davo_Dinkum> adhoc: Just use VLC

<adhoc> Davo_Dinkum: i do

<Davo_Dinkum> yama: Is that available for Ubuntu?

<purserj> what makes vlc any freer than mplayer?

<adhoc> Davo_Dinkum: or watch video on one of my ubuntu boxes

<zap0> so far i seem to be getting more "use something else" than use Ubuntu.

<yama> Davo_Dinkum: if you run it inside a chroot or VM, then yes :)

<adhoc> zap0: excuse the irony ...

<Davo_Dinkum> LOL OK

<yama> zap0: it depends on your needs

<yama> what are you after in a distro?

<Davo_Dinkum> zap0: Yeah Ubuntu is going off the rails a bit with each new release.

<adhoc> really good package management!

<yama> Davo_Dinkum: how so? I would disagree.

<adhoc> really good bug fixes and security updates!

<Davo_Dinkum> yama: It doesn't make the best use of the hardware, in that it needs more ram etc to run nicely.

<Davo_Dinkum> It doesn't make efficient use of the hardware.

<yama> Davo_Dinkum: neither do most distros

<yama> in fact, I'm not totally impressed with the efficiency of GNU/Linux GUIs at all

<Davo_Dinkum> yama: Why is that?

<yama> try an OS like BeOS and you'll see what I mean

<yama> or try e17

<Phlosten> isnt BeOS dead?

<yama> yes, but it was a good OS

<elkbuntu> e17 still has a bit to go, but it's pretty schweeeet

<Phlosten> yama: i had it installed for a while

<purserj> console ftw?

<Davo_Dinkum> How is that efficient? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Beos.png

<yama> what does an image tell you about efficiency?

<Davo_Dinkum> Probably nothing.

<DarkMageZ> i think yama is talking about resource efficiency

<yama> exactly

<Davo_Dinkum> It's propriety anyway. I'm not going to use it.

<elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, which is what Davo_Dinkum started talking about

<Davo_Dinkum> yama: I thought you were talking about GUI efficiency.

<yama> Davo_Dinkum: I'm not trying to convert you to BeOS. I am indicating resource efficiency

<elkbuntu> Davo_Dinkum, mainly because the gui is the part that rorts resources

<yama> take a look at Rasterman's talk at LCA.

<DarkMageZ> does he live in australia? or just visited?

<yama> DarkMageZ: he's from Sydney, but he lives in Japan

<DarkMageZ> gotta love his work :)

<Davo_Dinkum> Back soon people.

<yama> dang, the video isn't up yet

<yama> or rather, it's up but not linked

<zap0> are there library for playing back AVI files ?

<yama> zap0: it depends on what the audio and video formats inside the AVI are

<yama> AVI is only a container format

<Fujitsu> !restrictedformats | zap0

<ubotu> zap0: For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats

<zap0> yama, whatever codec's i want to use (i'll add the appropriate DLLs)

<yama> zap0: basically, if you install the codecs, you shouldn't have trouble playing videos

<zap0> which libs do i use ?

<yama> zap0: go to the page the ubotu suggested

<yama> that'll explain it

<yama> !easyubuntu | zap0

<ubotu> zap0: easyubuntu is a script that automates installation of some items. Use at your own risk. See http://easyubuntu.freecontrib.org/ - For help and or discussions about EasyUbuntu please join #easyubuntu

<zap0> im reading it now...

<zap0> im having trouble seeing any mention of which libs to use for AVI playback.

<zap0> the links for win32 codecs point at themselfs.

<yama> zap0: that's because 'AVI' doesn't mean very much

<yama> just install all of the codecs available and you should be fine

<zap0> thats ok, its digital, there is no much. these is yes and no.

<zap0> all the codecs available? from where.. the link points to the page with the link on it.

<yama> the easiest way is to install easyubuntu

<merlin-linux> hi all, anyone used a gps under linux with gpsdrive?

<merlin-linux> and what sort of gps did or are using with it

*** Tatey^2 is now known as Tatey

<siccness> Hmm

<Tatey> you're a hmm

<siccness> lol

<siccness> I've built my register/login script :)

<Tatey> oh nice

<siccness> all i need to do on that side is write a basic if statement to check whether user is logged in, if so, display "LOGOUT" rather than "LOGIN"

<Tatey> lol @ Video Hits

<Tatey> top 20 songs of the past 20 years

<siccness> lol

<siccness> whats on there atm?

<Tatey> errr, top songs from the 20 years

<Tatey> no idea :P

<siccness> lol

<Tatey> I've heard it before, but I don't know who it is or the name of the song

<Tatey> it's so 80's though

<Tatey> but

<Tatey> as much as I am not a fan of mainstream music

<Tatey> 80's music > today's shit

<siccness> dead rats singing > today's shit

<Tatey> I think the biggest killer is the actualy quality of the clips :P

<siccness> heh

<Tatey> Tell it to my heart - Taylor Dane

<Tatey> there you go :P

<siccness> ahh

<Tatey> ten was playing good shows all night

<siccness> such as?

<Tatey> umm movie was

<Tatey> Spy Game

<Tatey> then some random NZ show wasn't too bad

<Tatey> then NYPD blue is pretty good

<Tatey> 80's film clips are the best lawl

<Tatey> need you tonight - inxs

<siccness> INXS suck

<Tatey> lawl

<Tatey> I am not a fan of this genre at all, I'm more intriuged at tracking how mainstream music has shifted

<Tatey> 80's hair styles suck though

<siccness> It shifted because someone thought having a repetitive beat was cool

<Tatey> lol

<siccness> I got too many damn windows open

<Tatey> you need a panel? :P

<siccness> nah

<siccness> i just need a bigger resolution

<siccness> say, 6000x4000

<Tatey> for a majority of the time, panels are redundant IMO

<siccness> Depends I guess

<Tatey> but, if you do have 232390293 windows open, then I suppose they're valid. Though, I prefer Mac OS X "Expose"

<Tatey> rather than a panel

<siccness> I'd use my workstations, or desktops (whatever those things are called)

<siccness> but it's too hard to manage

<Tatey> I don't really like them

<Tatey> I use it mainly for the gimp

<siccness> see I like having everything in front of me at once

<siccness> rather than working on a script

<siccness> than realising that 30mins ago someone sent me a message

<Tatey> you'd like Expose :)

<Tatey> it's an easy way to quickly identify all your windows

<siccness> I reckon if someone implimented a feature into gaim that sent the window to the active desktop than that'd be cool

<siccness> (when a message is received)

<Tatey> yea

<Tatey> I hate how Gaim doesn't let me customize the colours of nicks

<siccness> Heh

<siccness> Atleast you can change peoples names

<Tatey> if I couldn'

<Tatey> I'd stop using MSN

<Tatey> :P

<siccness> heh

<siccness> sweet, i've actually been productive tonight.

<Tatey> that's always good

<siccness> mind you i have only 26hrs to write a file-upload script, image upload script, and gallery software

<siccness> oh and blog software

<Tatey> 26 hours?

<Tatey> why for the time limit?

<siccness> I set myself a goal for this to be completed for the re-start of TAFE

<praetorian> tsktsk

<praetorian> what are you writing it in?

<siccness> praetorian: big mistake, i know.

<siccness> PHP

<praetorian> yeah, big mistake

<siccness> The reason I chose PHP is because we're meant to learn it this year at TAFE

<siccness> so I figured, i'll get a head-start on it

<praetorian> ah

<Tatey> <?php echo 'LOL I KNOW PHP'; ?>

<siccness> php is stupid though

<siccness> like 300 lines to do shitall

<siccness> I wanna have a closer look at Ruby and RoR

<Tatey> I prefer ToR

<siccness> lol

<Tatey> Train on Rails :P

<siccness> I was assuming that anonymous crap

<Tatey> LOL

<Tatey> yea... that type of ToR

<eternaljoy> hello

<cps> morning

<eternaljoy> cps: :)

<eternaljoy> cps: what ISP u use?

<cps> internode

<Cyvros> Morning, all!

<praetorian> re

<Cyvros> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/02/02

<eternaljoy> cps: is internode good?

<cps> yeah they are great

<eternaljoy> I am offered ADSL2 by Bigpond a 24 month contract. First 9 months at $70 with 25gig download limit. And after 9 months for the next 15 months, its $140 with 25 gig download limit. Anyone know of any other ISP that offers better than this with a 25gig download limit?

<eternaljoy> cps: how much does it cost u per month? and how much download?

<cps> $80 for 40GB

<eternaljoy> u get 40gig per month limit?

<Cyvros> Stupid Windows Live Mail.

<cps> but for $60 you could get 20GB

<cps> with no contract too

<eternaljoy> cps: contracts of 24 months?

<eternaljoy> cps: ah good

<cps> http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/isp.cfm/Internode/9.html

<eternaljoy> cps: so I can sign up for $80 for 40GB and use them for 3 months and stop it! no penalty?

<eternaljoy> cps: ok brb

<cps> yep

<cps> although of course there are the setup fees etc

<eternaljoy> cps: do you they supply the ADSL2 modem?

<eternaljoy> cps: set up fees? how much?

<cps> it's all on that page I linked

<eternaljoy> cps: HOME-512sym-Pro 40 GB Shaped Free Dynamic $89.95 /mo <-- This is your plan?

<cps> no the "HOME-1500-Power40"is

<eternaljoy> what speed?

<eternaljoy> bigpond told me I will get 20,000

<eternaljoy> whats the 20,000 mean? is that KB/s ?

<eternaljoy> cps: ahh! your plan only offers 1500! Bigpond offers me 20,000

<cps> depends on whether they have their ADSL2 equipment in your exchange or not

<eternaljoy> more than 10 times faster

<eternaljoy> they do

<eternaljoy> i have ADSL2

<eternaljoy> support in my exchange

<cps> no, but does internode?

<eternaljoy> cps: 1500 is not fast enough for me! I want 20,000

<eternaljoy> hmm it seems internode doesnt support adsl2 yet

<eternaljoy> in my exchange

<cps> there is no way you will actually get 20,000 unless you lived inside the exchange

<eternaljoy> Telstra owns it all

<eternaljoy> my exchange is around the corner

<eternaljoy> bigpond told me I will get close to that all the time

<cps> here is internode's ADSL2 plans for comparison: http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/isp.cfm/Internode-Extreme-ADSL2+/9-6.html

<eternaljoy> they said it wont drop too low

<eternaljoy> cps: but internode doesnt support adsl2 for my exchange

<eternaljoy> cps: when it says: Up to 8192 / 384 kbps. Whats that mean? is that faster than your plan?

<cps> yeah I said it's for comparison so you can see if you are getting a good deal or not

<cps> yes it is

<eternaljoy> whats 20,000 adsl2 that bigpond talks about? is that faster than that 8192 kbps?

<cps> yes

<cps> 8000 is just full speed ADSL 1

<eternaljoy> cps: ah ok!

<cps> here is an informative graph: http://www.internode.on.net/adsl2/graph/index.htm

<eternaljoy> so if 8192 is the fastes adsl1, whats adsl2? instead of 8192, its 20,000 kbps?

<eternaljoy> cps: cheers

<eternaljoy> brb reading

<eternaljoy> cps: when the plan says: Up to 24576 / 1024 kbps! Does the 1024 refer to upload speed?

<cps> yeah

<eternaljoy> cps: this is better than bigpond:

<eternaljoy> HOME-Extreme-Pro 40 GB Shaped Free Dynamic $79.95 /mo

<eternaljoy> and no contracts you said

<eternaljoy> sounds better! but sadly they dont support adsl2 in my exchange

<eternaljoy> it seems only Telstra does

<Cyvros> Is -xzvf the correct switch for untarring something?

<eternaljoy> im guessing Telstra owns it , and refuses to sell it to others

<cps> yes, telstra is pretty expensive

<eternaljoy> Cyvros: yeah

<Cyvros> Never mind.

<eternaljoy> tar -xzvf

<Cyvros> eternaljoy: Thanks.

<cps> or -xjf if it's a bzip2 file

<eternaljoy> cps: wont telstra sell of some to competotirs?

<Cyvros> Ah, thanks.

<eternaljoy> Cyvros: np :)

<cps> not the adsl2 equipment

<cps> they have only just got off their ass an let us have full speed adsl 1

<cps> which we could have been enjoying 5 years or more ago

<eternaljoy> cps: whats it mean when their website says: Only available on Agile DSLAM Ports

<eternaljoy> whats Agile DSLAM Ports ?

<cps> agile is the name of their sister company

<cps> so it just means that it's only available where they have their own equipment

<eternaljoy> cps: it says my exchange is: Planned

<cps> cool

<eternaljoy> cps: which could mean anything from 1 day to 10 years

<eternaljoy> cps: what adsl modem internode give you?

<cps> they didn't, I bought my own

<cps> you can buy one from them when you sign up

<eternaljoy> if I get an ethernet adsl2 modem. Do I just plaug it into my ethernet port and load ubuntu? And then how will the modem know how to connect to the exchange?

<cps> if you buy one from them they will preconfigure it for you, otherwise you just have to log into the web interface and put in your username and password etc

<eternaljoy> cps: I dont see any web interface in ubuntu

<eternaljoy> where is that?

<cps> no the web interface for the modem

<eternaljoy> sorry im confused! web interface for the modem?

<eternaljoy> what u mean?

<eternaljoy> u mean Ubuntu picks up the modem and loads a window?

<cps> no, you just have to enter the IP address of the modem into your web browser

<eternaljoy> the modem has an IP address?

<cps> yes

<Cyvros> Ha! http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/technology/6320865.stm

<eternaljoy> so everytime I load Ubuntu, I need to enter that IP address into Firefox URL bar?

<cps> no

<cps> only the first time so you can enter your username and password etc

<eternaljoy> cps: so I only need to do that once? And then what happens after that?

<cps> the modem remembers it

<cps> they have a built in web server which you use to configure the modem that's all

<eternaljoy> ah so the modem remembers thats for good

<eternaljoy> so next time I load ubuntu, what happens exactly? How does ubuntu know how to connect to the exchange?

<eternaljoy> whats telling the modem to connect?

<eternaljoy> in other words, how does the modem know how to connect to the exchange everytime I load ubuntu?

<eternaljoy> cps: u there?

<cps> ubuntu doesn't connect to the exchange your modem does

<cps> and the modem will stay connected even if you turn your computer off

<eternaljoy> cps: every night I turn off everything before bed! I turn of all power to the computer! so if its turned off, will that mean I need to enter password again?

<eternaljoy> cps: doesnt the modem have a power swtich that needs to be plugged into the power socket?

<cps> no the modem should save the password to flash memory

<eternaljoy> ok

<eternaljoy> soiunds amazing :P

<eternaljoy> clever

<eternaljoy> ty

<eternaljoy> cps: and im assuming internode works well with ubuntu?

<cps> yeah

<eternaljoy> cps: u use an ethernet modem?

<eternaljoy> i was told to not get a usb adsl modem as its hard to set up in ubuntu

<eternaljoy> true?

<cps> yes that's true

<eternaljoy> so i should make sure it supports ethernet?

<cps> yeah something like this: http://www.internode.on.net/adsl/hardware/home-and-soho/

<eternaljoy> ok

<eternaljoy> brb

<eternaljoy> wow! $300 for the modem

<eternaljoy> bigpond said they would give me one for free

<eternaljoy> i cant pay $300 for a modem on top of everything else :(

<cps> there is a cheaper one that doesn't have wireless

<cps> bigpond also makes you go on a 2 year contract

<cps> have a look at their plans here: http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/isp.cfm/Telstra-BigPond-ADSL2+/1-6.html

<eternaljoy> ok

<cps> $60 gets you 600MB with excess charged at $150/GB

<eternaljoy> should I make sure the adsl modem supports Voip?

<eternaljoy> cps: what gives you 600MB ?

<cps> bigpond

<eternaljoy> well

<eternaljoy> they told me I can get 25 gig per month for $70 per month for 9 months

<eternaljoy> but anyway. internode sounds better

<cps> what happens after nine months?

<eternaljoy> i wish my exchange would be working with them

<eternaljoy> for next 15months, the price doubles

<eternaljoy> sucks uh?

<eternaljoy> i dont want a contract

<eternaljoy> i want Internode

<eternaljoy> but who knows when they will get my exchange working

<eternaljoy> i may ring them and ask

<eternaljoy> cps: after your feedback and recommendations, I want to go with internode.

<cps> yeah

<eternaljoy> but I can only get adsl atm

<eternaljoy> but I guess thats better than dial up :P

<cps> you could just go with the 8000 plans until they enable your exchange

<eternaljoy> cps: with adsl, how long does it take you to download 1 gig?

<eternaljoy> cps: yeah, get the 8192 until my exchange gets enabled

<eternaljoy> even though its half slower than bigpond, at least no contracts

<eternaljoy> i hate contracts

<cps> and bigpond sounds like it will end up being really expensive

<eternaljoy> yeah

<eternaljoy> cps: with adsl, how long does it take you to download 1 gig?

<eternaljoy> can u give me some ideas

<eternaljoy> 2 hours?

<eternaljoy> more?

<eternaljoy> less?

<eternaljoy> just a rough estimate pls

<cps> probably around 2 hours at my speed

<eternaljoy> hmmm

<eternaljoy> thats not too bad

<eternaljoy> so around 2 hours for 1 gig if I get the adsl 8192 plan?

<cps> no, it will be a few times faster if you get an 8000 plan

<eternaljoy> thats right

<eternaljoy> u are on the 512

<eternaljoy> i forgot

<cps> no 1.5

<eternaljoy> 1.5 what?

<cps> 1.5 megabits

<eternaljoy> areny u using adsl1?

<eternaljoy> so whats the 8192? 8.1 megabits?

<cps> yeah

<eternaljoy> so I can get 7 times faster than yours?

<eternaljoy> why arent u using 8192?

<eternaljoy> im looking at the adsl2 modem on their website and it says : NodePhone Ready ! Whats that mean?

<Cyvros> http://www.degredo.net/

<cps> the 8000 plans only just became available

<Cyvros> Mentioned by thetree in irc.foonetic.net/#xkcd

<cps> and it would cost $10 more per month to get the same download allowance

<Cyvros> If only all fathers fell for that.

<Cyvros> We'd have a much better world.

<cps> he he,

<eternaljoy> cps: so why havent u upgraded to the faster speed?

<cps> "<cps> and it would cost $10 more per month to get the same download allowance"

<eternaljoy> cps: only just became available ? I thought adsl1 been around for long time, no?

<cps> yes but telstra limited the top speed to 1.5 megabits

<cps> they recently lifted that restriction

<eternaljoy> ah ok

<eternaljoy> telstra is like hitler :P

<eternaljoy> cps: it seems I should get the NodePhone Ready modem, as it says I can use the boradband to dial ppl, even if they not using NodePhone themselves! I can ring anyone

<eternaljoy> Nodephone sounds cool

<cps> yeah, it does cost money though

<eternaljoy> oops hang on

<eternaljoy> it says: A fixed cost call rate to all standard land-line services Australia-wide.

<eternaljoy> yeah

<eternaljoy> just nopticed

<eternaljoy> Free NodePhone-to-NodePhone calls - so when a friend joins NodePhone too, you both win!

<eternaljoy> its incredible the technology

<eternaljoy> :)

<eternaljoy> i need to get up tp date

<eternaljoy> cps: what u read to keep up to date?

<eternaljoy> any comp magz?

<eternaljoy> cps: how do you knpow so much?

<eternaljoy> very edcuated

<eternaljoy> u work with comps?

<cps> I used to read APC but I got sick of the 8 page spread in every issue about vista

<eternaljoy> yeah

<eternaljoy> internode says about my exchange: BroadbandConnect: Ineligible

<eternaljoy> whats Ineligible mean?

<Cyvros> cps: Hehehe.

<cps> if you want to find out about broadband in Australia whirlpool has lots of information

<eternaljoy> Exchange Enabled: Yes! BroadbandConnect: Ineligible. internode ADSL2+ Extreme Plan Status: Planned

<cps> if you ignore all the whingeing on the forums

<eternaljoy> Australia whirlpool?

<eternaljoy> cps: im not even sure internode supports adsl1 for me as it says: BroadbandConnect: Ineligible

<cps> no I think broadband connect is some government thing

<eternaljoy> cps: have u seen that bigpond plan. it says: $150 /GB

<eternaljoy> does that mean they charge us $150 for every additional gigabyte?

<eternaljoy> that would be robbery

<cps> yeah, bigpond is one of the few ISPs who don't shape you (reduce your speed) if you go over and instead charge you horrendous amounts for your excess usage

<eternaljoy> imagine paying $150 for 1 gig :P

<eternaljoy> cps: they changed it though! when I spoke to them the other day, they told me that after 25 gig, it drops down to 64k speed

<eternaljoy> and that its capped the price

<eternaljoy> so I wont get charged extra

<eternaljoy> cps: seems they changed it

<cps> you will find on the telstra page they probably don't list it as $150 per GB they probably say 15¢ per megabyte

<eternaljoy> cps: does internode offer any free download time, eg, midnight to 6am?

<cps> no they don't, you are free to use it whenever you want, they do have some free mirrors and game servers and radio streams etc

<eternaljoy> do the free mirrors contain anything of worth? :P

<cps> ubuntu :-)

<eternaljoy> or just junk

<eternaljoy> lol

<eternaljoy> anything else of worth? :)

<cps> anything that they can legally mirror

<eternaljoy> but the game servers wont work with ubuntu, right?

<cps> http://www.internode.on.net/content/index.htm

<eternaljoy> cps: do they trace a person if they use torrent sites?

<cps> you get ABC for free too

<eternaljoy> whats ABC?

<cps> no they don't

<cps> you know the ABC

<eternaljoy> so i can use torrent sites without worrying about them logging me?

<eternaljoy> abc?

<cps> meh, probably

<cps> the Australian Broadcasting Corporation

<cps> their website is "un-metred"

<eternaljoy> what u mean I get free ABC? you mean I can watch ABC live for free?

<cps> you can download anything on their website

<eternaljoy> cps: any disputes about your usage?

<eternaljoy> u had any probs?

<cps> no

<eternaljoy> so its never been "inflated"?

<eternaljoy> i would hate to have dl 10 gig, but the usage meter says 25gig

<eternaljoy> cps: no such probs for you?

<eternaljoy> cps: I read bigpond users have that happening

<cps> the thing about bigpond is that they charge you for both downloads and uploads

<eternaljoy> ok

<eternaljoy> well

<eternaljoy> im going to go with internode

<cafuego_> the thig about bigpond is that they suck really badly, but people sue them anyway

<eternaljoy> use the slower speed for now

<eternaljoy> cafuego: yeah

<eternaljoy> cafuego: u also using internode?

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: yup

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: switching the in-laws from bigpond to internode today as well

<eternaljoy> cps: if I sign up with internode, I wont have any tropuble getting it to work with ubuntu, will I?

<eternaljoy> cafuego: cool :)

<eternaljoy> cafuego: what modem you recommend I get? the internode one?

<cps> no, as long as you get an ethernet modem

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: No, just use a decent adsl modem. The bilion they offer is nice. (I bought my own 7404)

<eternaljoy> cps: so when I ring internode, will they be expeirneced with Ubuntu users?

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: From their website: "If it supports pppoe, you cna use it".

<eternaljoy> cafuego: I learned that I must get an ethernet modem, not USB modem

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: Yes, but you should do that irrespective of which ISP you're with.

<eternaljoy> I heard TPG are crap too

<eternaljoy> cafuego: understood

* cafuego_ has never dealt with them

<Cyvros> eternaljoy: Yep.

<eternaljoy> Internode sounds the go :)

<eternaljoy> brb, reading their agreement

<Cyvros> We had them for dial-up, mind you, but they kept pulling us from 56k to about 20k to pressure us to broadband.

* Cyvros vents his anger, then returns to lurking.

<eternaljoy> Cyvros: heeh ;)

* eternaljoy is away bbl

<eternaljoy> ty cps and cafuego for your great advice and guidance

<eternaljoy> brb

<Cyvros> Sweet bejesus!

<Cyvros> My CPU's dying!

* Cyvros tries to resuscitate it.

<Cyvros> I love the spam I get - "Let's talk about sex!"

<Cyvros> I'm waiting for "Let's talk about the horrible ways in which you can die if you don't donate to my foundation."

<cps> you probably wound't read it if it had that as the subject

<Cyvros> True.

<cafuego_> use bogofilter

<Cyvros> cafuego: Bogofilter?

<Cyvros> I just check my Spam folder to see if any proper e-mails get accidentally filtered there.

<Cyvros> Gmail does that sometimes.

<cafuego_> Cyvros: spam filter, nice one.

<Cyvros> cafuego: Ah, okay.

<Cyvros> Might have to try it one day.

<Cyvros> BBL.

<eternaljoy> cps: does Ubuntu install ok on any type of notebook?

<eternaljoy> anyone heard about Agile?

<cafuego_> heh

<cafuego_> Yes, they own my DSLAM :-)

<eternaljoy> cafuego: whats DSLAM again?

<cafuego_> the bit your adsl line plugs into at the exchange

<eternaljoy> cafuego: out of all the ISPS. what made you chose Internode?

<eternaljoy> cafuego: ok

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: they didn't suck.

<eternaljoy> cafuego: why internode over all the others?

<eternaljoy> cafuego: lol! seriously :)

<eternaljoy> why them?

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: They had the best value plan when I was looking to leave netspace

<eternaljoy> cafuego: ok. and it seems u still like them as you are placing your inlaws to them today

<eternaljoy> cafuego: do you work for Internode? :)

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: since then they've consistently not sucked. The link is *stable* and support is clueful. I don't have to wait in a call queue *ever* so I'm, happy :-)

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: And oh, I don't *have* to put them in charge of my phone line if I want adsl2 from them.

<cafuego_> like say iinet

<eternaljoy> is ADSL from 1.5Mbit/s to 12 Mbit/s? And anything faster than 12 Mbit/s, is called ADSL2. Is that right?

<eternaljoy> cafuego: ok thanks

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: adsl is from 64K to 8Mbit

<eternaljoy> cafuego: got it

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: adsl2 is up to 12Mbit, adsl2+ is up to 24Mbit

<eternaljoy> anyhing above 8mbit is adsl2?

<cps> eternaljoy: well I have a sample size of one to answer that question by

<eternaljoy> ahh ok

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: yep

<eternaljoy> cafuego: make sense

<eternaljoy> cafuego: im joining Internode! but my exchange is not supported atm, it says "planned". So I can only get 8Mbit

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: *nod*

<eternaljoy> cafuego: but i guess thats better then dial up :P

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: Well, 8M isn't that bad really

<eternaljoy> cps: yes?

<eternaljoy> cafuego: not in contrast to dial up ;)

<cafuego_> eternaljoy: Even in contrast to 1.5Mbit :-)

<eternaljoy> cafuego: lol

<eternaljoy> yes :)

<eternaljoy> cafuego: do u own a notebook?

*** Hit3k_ is now known as Pengo

<cafu