<chuck__> I tried gparted but it doesnt see my external usb drive...help

<chaddy> hi chuck__, tried turning the external drive off and on again?

<chuck__> no, but i can access the drive and work with files.

<chaddy> might want to try fdisk or cfdisk

<chuck__> ok, my main purpose is to format the external drive for ubuntu

<chaddy> you want to run it from the external drive? Over USB?

<chuck__> i want to use the external drive for photo storage. Since it was already formatted for windows when I bought it, I wanted to know how to format it in Ubuntu.

<chaddy> umm, have a look in your /etc/fstab, in all liklihood it's formatted fat32 which is portable across windows and *nix machines

<chaddy> hmm

*** Mez is now known as Lethargy

*** Lethargy is now known as Mez

<VooDoo> morning

<GazzaK> morning all

<sheepeatingtaz> morning GazzaK

<GazzaK> hey sheepy, how are you? had a good weekend?

<sheepeatingtaz> sort of.

<sheepeatingtaz> Decided on the 'Master Plan' for the wedding and house. And realised it's going to take us 2 years to save up :(

<GazzaK> eeek

<GazzaK> yeah

<sheepeatingtaz> and that with Lisa saving more than half of what she gets paid

<GazzaK> go have it down t bottom of t garden, in the shed

<sheepeatingtaz> :)

<sheepeatingtaz> we looked at this yesterday: http://www.gretnaweddings.co.uk/

<GazzaK> go for a holiday to Vegas? get married by act of Elivis?

<sheepeatingtaz> but decided it's not what we wanted.

<GazzaK> I still think Elvis is the way to go

<sheepeatingtaz> The problem is getting Lisa's dad there. He's 84, has difficulty walkin, and senile dementia.

<sheepeatingtaz> Lovely Man, but it wouldn't be a fun flight for anyone on the plane!

* GazzaK must not make any wicked and cruel comments

<sheepeatingtaz> he's cool

<sheepeatingtaz> he's in hospital at the moment

<GazzaK> yeah, but it'd be so easy to be a git and make heartless but funny comments

<GazzaK> 84, wow, I hope I get to that age

<sheepeatingtaz> (He was 62 when he had Lisa :) )

<GazzaK> my partners great grandma is 102 now

<sheepeatingtaz> http://www.gretnaweddings.co.uk/

<sheepeatingtaz> bah, stupid clipboard

<sheepeatingtaz> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheepeatingtaz/67941097/

<sheepeatingtaz> that's better

<sheepeatingtaz> My great Grandma is 99, but she's still going strong!

<GazzaK> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/43/78454921_e8d0d2f1af.jpg?v=0 awwwwww

<mrben> morning all

<Seeker`> lo

<DaveMorris> morning all

<Seeker`> morning

* Seeker` watches the tumbleweed roll by

<Seeker`> lo jono

<jono> hi

<mrben> hey jono

<jono> hey mrben

<GazzaK> hello jono, morning :-)

<jono> heya GazzaK

<GazzaK> wooo Googleypen-alitious

<GazzaK> snail, woo yay, thanks

<Seeker`> does anyone know a regex to detect hyperlinks?

<mattl> in html?

<Seeker`> yeah

<Seeker`> but it can only be <a href="url">blah</a>

<Seeker`> no other attributes in the <a>

<popey> morning all

<Seeker`> morning pop

<Seeker`> ey

<GazzaK> morning class

* GazzaK is trying to not get too excited, at the possiblity of moving wednesday 31st Jan

<DaveMorris> thats quick

<GazzaK> well, this has been going on since the end of October

<DaveMorris> I thought you where still looking for a house last week though

<GazzaK> welll.....

<GazzaK> the one I thought i'd lost, I hadn't

<GazzaK> damn crossed wires somewhere

* GazzaK got stressed

<DaveMorris> thats some crossed wires

<GazzaK> yeah

<medders> morning all

<DaveMorris> morning

<GazzaK> thursday they said i'd lost it, but by tuesday after they said it was still on, and by the following thursday that was confirmed in writing

<medders> oops, now i sound like im copying popey

<medders> :(

<GazzaK> hey medders

<GazzaK> just pretend popey was on /ignore

<medders> will do :)

* popey holds GazzaK and farts on his face

<GazzaK> ewwww, follow-through

<popey> heh

<GazzaK> tumbleweed.popey.com

<popey> \o/

<popey> tumbleweed on its now super hosting :)

<medders> ~*

<medders> ~*

<medders> low bandwidth tumbleweed FTW

<GazzaK> lol

<popey> http://ftw.popey.com/ :)

<popey> "subdomains for all occasions"

<medders> birthdays, weddings and bar mitzvahs?

<popey> I'm here all week

<popey> thank you thank you

<GazzaK> popey, but we want a better comedian

<popey> *better*!?

<popey> bah!

<GazzaK> be nice is jono shared some of his humour with use, but all he ever does is say hi, and then lurk

<GazzaK> s/is/if

<GazzaK> d'oh

<mattl> i'm here. i can do funny.

<jono> I wish I had the time GazzaK

<GazzaK> mattl, go for it

<GazzaK> jono, :'(

<mattl> GazzaK: I'm not a performing monkey ;)

<popey> he has no time for us little people any more GazzaK ;)

* medders feeds mattl a peanut

<popey> now he's off jettin' round the planet :)

* mattl picks fleas from medders

* popey flicks peas on mattl

<medders> *ook*

<popey> Ook!

<medders> Oh Ah Ah Ah!

<mattl> popey: you wait.. once they get a taste for flying, they'll be off to space. there's no stopping that Canonical lot.

<medders> yay with the funny! :D

<popey> wonder how much it would cost to send jono into space

<GazzaK> lol

<jono> hehe

<popey> maybe we could bribe the russians to play "barbie girl" in the rocket on the way up

* GazzaK throws rotten eggs at mattl *boo hiss

* popey picks up the rotten eggs and makes a fart out of them

<mattl> i reckon we could emulate space for about 60 quid.

<GazzaK> A guy with a bit of tarmac walks into a bar, says to the barman, a pint for me, and one for the road

<mattl> /ignore GazzaK ;)

<popey> GazzaK: http://tarby.popey.com/

<GazzaK> celine dion walks into a bar, barman says "why the long face"

<popey> A bubble goes into a bar, barman says "Oi! We don't serve your sort here!"

<medders> Two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff.

<medders> Buh de bum* *Ching*

<medders> you really need sound for that one :)

<mattl> $ date

<mattl> Mon Jan 22 11:38:55 GMT 2007

<mrben> a bit of string walks into a bar, barman says "oi - we don't serve bits of string here"

<DaveMorris> almost lunch time

<mrben> string goes outside, ruffles his hair, and ties himself up, goes back in

<mrben> barman says "oi - are you a bit of string?", string says "no, I'm a frayed knot"

<mattl> mrben: you got that job at the lollystick factory, then?

<popey> clearly he didn't

<mrben> mattl: would need to be a bloody big lollystick for that joke....

<GazzaK> Two peanuts were walking down a spooky road at night... One was assaulted

<GazzaK> Why was the Tomato blushing? Because he saw the salad dressing

<mrben> two piles of vomit were walking down the street.... one says to the other: "See that house over there? That's where I was brought up"

<popey> oh dear

<GazzaK> A frog is looking for a loan, so he goes into a bank. He sits down at a desk and the name plate says "Patty Whac". He talks to Patty about the loan and she asks him what he has for collateral. The frog replies well I have this vase. He pulls the vase out of a bag to show her. Patty says "well thats just a cheap knick-knack". Then the owner notices the vase and says to himself "gee that's from the 17th century, it's worth tons of money" So he walk

<GazzaK> s over to patty and says "Thats no knick-knake Patty Whac give the frog a loan"

<mrben> gorilla walks into a bar, asks for a pint of beer. barman pulls the pint and says "that'll be £4.50 please mate. You know, we don't get many gorillas in here" gorilla says "not surprised, with the price of the beer"

<GazzaK> A termite walks into a barroom and asks, "Is the bar tender here?

<mrben> GazzaK: you missed a whole section of the patty whack joke....

<GazzaK> Q- What do you call a person with lepersy in a bath tub? A- Stew

<mrben> ewwww

<GazzaK> Did you hear about the cannibal who passed his brother in the woods one day?

<mrben> whats orange and sounds like a parrot?

<mrben> a carrot!

<mrben> whats brown and sticky?

<mrben> jobbies!

<GazzaK> Two men walk into a bar. You would think the second one would of ducked.

<GazzaK> Why do they put bells on cows? Because their horns don't work!

<popey> Q. What's the best thing about kinky sex?

<popey> A. Wiping the blood off the hammer.

<GazzaK> lol

<mrben> blind man walks into a bar, says "Want to hear a blonde joke?". Barmaid says "Well, I'm blond, the girl next to you is blond and a black belt, and the girl on the other side is blond, a kickboxer and has a phd. Still want to tell your joke?" Blind man says "Guess not, if I'm going to have to explain it 3 times...."

<mrben> popey: nice

* mrben -> lunch

<GazzaK> What's the worst part about eating vegetables? Those damn wheelchairs.

<GazzaK> Why don't blind people skydive? Because it scares the crap out of their dogs.

<GazzaK> What is the last thing that goes through a bug's mind as it hits a windshield? His butt.

<medders> A man walks into a bar with a cat under his arm and a ostrich on his shoulder. He goes to the barman and says "A pint of beer for me, a pint of lager for the ostrich and a double brandy for the cat, please!". So he barman gets the drinks, and shortly after the ostrich go up to the bar and orders the same round. They've finished those drinks and then theres a huge argument, and the cat storms out. This confuses the barman, so he asks the bloke what was g

<medders> oing on. "It's all a bit strange you see, I found a magic lamp out the back, with a genie inside and he gave me one wish. Great I though, I'll give it a try, so I asked for a long legged bird with a tight pussy"

<medders> tres long I'm afraid

<mattl> <GazzaK> What's the worst part about eating vegetables? Those damn wheelchairs.

<mattl> :/

<GazzaK> I though it was funny

<GazzaK> it was cut and pasted, wasn't me

<GazzaK> :p

<mattl> GazzaK: it suggests that everyone in a wheelchair is a vegetable though :)

<GazzaK> well, it would make it easier to move them from the car to the cupboard after a big grocery shop

<medders> doesn't it suggest that everyone in a vegetative state is in a wheelchair?

<medders> when i say vegetative state I mean somewhere like LA

<medders> or maybe Texas

<GazzaK> texas sounds more likey

<medders> true, but then you've got the brain dead celebrities in LA

<medders> ~*

<GazzaK> |||STOP.....HAMMERTIME|||

<GazzaK> Three guys are in a bar on the top of a cliff. The first guy says to the other guys "You know, if had just one more beer, I think I could fly." The second guy says "No Way!" So the first guy orders a beer and drinks it. Then all three guys walk out to the edge of the cliff. The first guy jumps off, starts falling to the ground, and then flies back to the top of the cliff.

<GazzaK> The second guy is totally amazed, so he says "You know, if I had another beer, I bet I could do that too." So all three guys go into the bar, and the second guy has another beer. After he finished, he said "Ok, I will be able to fly now" So they all went outside and the second guy jumped off of the cliff and feel to the bottom, where he hit the ground and died instantly. The third guy turned to the first guy and said "You know Superman, you are a

<GazzaK> real jerk when you drink"

<medders> chortle chortle

<GazzaK> best way to clean the loo.... chuck in some shampoo, and then chuck the cat in...

*** mattl changes topic to "Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://www.ubuntu-uk.org | Happy New Year! | Ubuntu FAQ: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members add your picture | Welcome to GazzaK's Cut and Paste jokes channel"

<popey> hehe

<medders> mattl: Very apt :)

<popey> medders: very aptitude

<medders> very synaptic if your into a UI

<mattl> sudo apt-get remove crap-jokes-compendium --purge

<medders> that really should be a package

<mattl> medders: don't encourage him.

<GazzaK> :)

<medders> He he he

<medders> I think the insults from sudo are enough

<GazzaK> What do you get when you cross an alligator and a railroad track? Three pieces of alligator.

<medders> http://www.gratisoft.us/sudo/man/sudoers.html#item_insults

<medders> nows thats something windows doesn't have :)

<DaveMorris> how do I turn the insults on?

<DaveMorris> edit the /etc/sudoers file?

<medders> yup

<medders> and add insults to the end of the defaults

<DaveMorris> *sets it up on our office server

<GazzaK> can I add insults to normal successful logins?

<GazzaK> just 'cos I like insulting people

<medders> we could set up a GazzaK's insult of the day mailing list

<medders> that might work :)

* mrben returns

<gord> hrmm, I think we have another argument against those stoopid intelligent design people... either that or this god person is twisted evil, http://youtube.com/watch?v=we9_CdNPuJg

<medders> i'd go for twisted evil

<mrben> gord: why? surely survival of the fittest should have bred this defect out years ago?

<mrben> aside from that - they're hi-larious!

<gord> its automatic playing dead mrben, i'm sure they survive better ;)

<mrben> :)

<GazzaK> and it seems to be bred into them

<mrben> it's an hereditary genetic disorder

<mrben> but it appears to affect an entire breed

<mrben> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fainting_goats

<popey> gord: have you seen the Richard Dawkins lecture on youtube?

<popey> it's quite amusing when a woman asks " what if you're wrong?"

<gord> linky?

<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

<popey> its part of a much bigger video that is worth watching

<popey> very interesting and entertaining

<popey> the fact that he mentions the spaghetti monster made me chuckle :)

<Seeker`> hmm

<Seeker`> regexs suck

<Seeker`> can anyone see what is wrong with this:

<gord> :o heracy! regular expressions have saved years of my life!

<Seeker`> <(a|A) (href|HREF)="(http|HTTP)(s|S)?\://([a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.)+[a-zA-Z]+(\:[0-9]+)?(/[a-zA-Z0-9-_~\.]*)*(\?

<Seeker`> (&?[a-zA-Z0-9-]*(=(%[A-F0-9]{2}|[a-zA-Z0-9])*)?)+)?"\\>

<Seeker`> apart from the fact its a regex

<Seeker`> it wont match <a href="www.google.co.uk"/>

* GazzaK looks, gets headache and hides

<gord> if your regex looks like that and your not going for some wacky competition then you need to simplify it else you won't be able to maintain it

* medders runs around in circles screaming

<Seeker`> gah, i;m stupid

<Seeker`> 1. the <a> tag does'nt end with />

<Seeker`> 2. /> != \>

<gord> hehe, I think that video explains to the world that us english are definitely the most cleverist of all!

<popey> :)

<popey> someone put a link online to the screencasts and said that because I had an english accent I sounded clever :)

<popey> *sounded* being the operative word

<medders> it's much better to have your voice on them than the typical american 'lynux geek' one

<gord> unfortunately living in the middle of Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, my accent rarely caries the though 'clever'

<medders> same for being from Cornwall

<popey> well of course

<popey> all northerners sound thick

<popey> :)

<medders> Woo for the South :D

<popey> My next screencast is "How to win friends and influence people on IRC"

<gord> is the answer, "be an op"?

<popey> i think it would be fantastic to have regional voices on screencats

<popey> er

<popey> screencasts

<medders> screencats would be pretty good also

<popey> Me-ow!

<gord> I dunno, in my experience people down south have trouble understanding the rest of us, might be because their is more variation in accents up here

<medders> thats probably it

<popey> I guess there is a large variation from BBC / Queens English up there

<popey> more so than down here

<medders> http://nodwick.humor.gamespy.com/cats/cats.htm

<popey> not saying thats a bad thing, just that the further from BBC english someone gets, the harder I find it to understand

<medders> Yay for the cats! :)

<popey> its all the local colloquialisms and the lengthening of the vowels that does it for me

<popey> LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS

<popey> for example

<X3N_> my accent is almost bbc english

<popey> or as I often hear "uh-Leeeeeeeeeeds"

<popey> depends who I am speaking to, I can be lazy and drop into sarf english

<popey> but when at work I often talk proper like

<gord> generally when I am talking to someone from a more southenly perspective its rather annoying as I talk rather too fast and they are too polite to stop me and ask me to speak clearer, no instead they wait till I have rambled on for 10 mins at 20,00mph and then go 'sorry what?'

<popey> heh

<X3N_> it's rude to interupt

<popey> Joke time

<popey> Knock Knock

<X3N_> who's ther

<X3N_> e

<popey> The interrupting cow.

<popey> Moo!

<popey> doesn't work well on irc

<X3N_> the interrupting cow who

<X3N_> :p

<popey> there's the other one

<X3N_> my coffee curdled twice this morning :(

<popey> which doesn't either

<popey> Knock Knock

<X3N_> who's there ?

<popey> A friench man

<GazzaK> gord, sorry what was that?

<X3N_> A friench man who ?

<popey> *shrug*

<GazzaK> What do you get when you cross an alligator and a railroad track? Three pieces of alligator.

<X3N_> k

<popey> hahah

* popey notes GazzaK is catering for the american audience here

<popey> s/alligator/crocodile

<popey> s/railroad/train

<GazzaK> whateva

<popey> talk to the irc client

* gord believes that GazzaK is just copy pasting from a joke website ;)

<GazzaK> it's the sauce

<X3N_> railway even

<popey> haha, sauce too

<popey> that's it

*** X3N_ is now known as X3N

<popey> railway

<GazzaK> yum yum

<popey> apt apt

<GazzaK> lol

<popey> can you tell I am in a good mood today

<X3N> i can

<X3N> what is the secret ?

<GazzaK> did you score

<popey> haha

<medders> is it GazzaK's copy pasting?

<mrben> is it S&BJ Day?

<X3N> sex in the morning day ?

<GazzaK> popey, how is this new job? when do you start?

<popey> 9am today GazzaK

<GazzaK> yay

<GazzaK> is it good

<mrben> ahhh

<mrben> new job day

<popey> it's 10 mins from home :)

<popey> which is always nice

<GazzaK> obviously it is not busy

<popey> not yet

<mrben> also know as 'not quite as good as steak and blow job day'

<mrben> known*

<GazzaK> I need a new job

<GazzaK> but I need to move first

* mrben needs a new job too

* X3N needs a new life

<GazzaK> hehe, my backup failed over the weekend, so i'm running it again, 22% been running 5 hours

<GazzaK> X3N, why, whats so bad?

<X3N> it's just a bit sucky

<GazzaK> my job might be bad, but at least I'm not wishing for a new life

* popey hands GazzaK a few more floppies

<gord> hrmm... the FSG and OSDL are merging to be the linux foundation.. something about that rubs me the wrong way...

<popey> X3N: change something?

<X3N> i would if i knew what to change

* GazzaK rubs gord the other way

<popey> gord: *BSD user by chance?

<popey> X3N: what annoys you then?

<X3N> /everything/

<GazzaK> typical teenager! :p

<DaveMorris> can't get a girl?

<gord> nah, I'm just not big on linux so to speak, its a great tool and everything but its more open source than free software

<popey> X3N: make a list

<Seeker`> popey: alligators and crocodiles are different animals

<GazzaK> I have an answer to the problem of not being able to get a girl

<popey> order by annoyance level

<DaveMorris> get a blow up doll?

<GazzaK> list it by who is naughty or nice?

<popey> attribute easyness to fix tags to them

<GazzaK> check it twice

<popey> fix the one that is easiest to fix with the most annoyance level

<X3N> ok

<popey> lists rock

<GazzaK> or even fix the little problems, to only leave the big ones

<DaveMorris> X3N, since your a student do it before heading to the pub, not when you get back

<popey> X3N: how old are you, if I might ask

<gord> either that or create a real life quantum leap and live the lives of other people, solving their problems until you find that leap back home!

<GazzaK> little problems will feel easier to fix, and then you can concerntrate on the big ones later, without the little ones making it worse

<DaveMorris> #1 task, quit playing WoW!

<X3N> popey: 19

<GazzaK> #2 - you will go blind, leave it alone!

<X3N> 20 in march

<popey> \o/ twenties

<gord> #3 and _that_ too

<popey> X3N: when was the last time you had a holiday?

<X3N> christmas ?

<DaveMorris> I'm 24 in March (getting old now)

<GazzaK> a holiday away!

<X3N> although that wasn't really much of a holiday

<popey> do anything nice?

<popey> when was the last "proper" holiday/break?

<GazzaK> DaveMorris, I'm 30 (eeeek) in 11 days

<DaveMorris> your past it then

<GazzaK> yep

<X3N> I can't remember popey

* GazzaK goes and gets bus pass

<medders> im 18 in 10 days :)

<DaveMorris> you best get that new job within the next 10 days before your too old

<gord> Christmas doesn't count as a holiday, anything where you have to get drunk just to endure your relatives endless annoyances can't count as a holiday

<GazzaK> X3N, if like me, money is tight, wait till it gets a little warmer and go camping, it's cheap and nice to get away

<popey> I find if I haven't had a holiday for a while, or dont have one to look forward to, I get cranky

<DaveMorris> I'll talk to medders in 11 days when i can't be accused of 'grooming'

<popey> GazzaK: or go stay with friends, even cheaper :)

<popey> or relatives

<medders> 8|

<popey> if you can stomach them

<popey> or go and see medders :)

* GazzaK runs off to visit medders

* medders hides

<DaveMorris> is medders the one from hatfeild?

<medders> nope, I'm from sunny Cornwall

<DaveMorris> some Kid was from there (must of been 15 then)

<DaveMorris> X3N, go see Medders in the summer, Sun, Sea, Surf and girls

<GazzaK> and cute surfers

<medders> DaveMorris: sadly the girls aren't much to speak of

<DaveMorris> yeah sorry, I forgot those

<medders> DaveMorris: cept the tourists

<DaveMorris> yeah, and they come down in the summer

<GazzaK> but the surfer dudes are okay yeah?

<DaveMorris> LOL

<medders> lol

<GazzaK> well?

<X3N> I'm actually going surfing the weekend after next

<medders> I wouldn't like to say, you can see me on launchpad though :P

<DaveMorris> link?

<DaveMorris> I promise to view it in 11 days time

<medders> nopw I'm starting to worry

* medders hides again

<GazzaK> DaveMorris, he is over 16, thats the AoC now

<GazzaK> lol

* medders quivers

<DaveMorris> valentines day is coming (arghh) I believe its for single people only, but my Fiancee insists I buy her something, what should I do?

<GazzaK> buy her a powertool

<DaveMorris> Gazzak, didn't realise they lowered it from 18

<DaveMorris> I do need a drill, the motor has gone on mine

<GazzaK> DaveMorris, it is equal now, was great fun

<GazzaK> (I was one of the protesters...) don't care what it is, as long as it is equal

<Seeker`> DaveMorris: A wii and a projector

<Seeker`> DaveMorris: Or a nice shiny new computer, with ubuntu installed

<GazzaK> yeah, buy her a wii

<gord> pfft, buy me a wii

<GazzaK> I'll do ************ for a wii

<gord> twice

<GazzaK> well that goes without saying, i'll try anything twice

<GazzaK> well apart from that

<medders> Skydiving sans parachute?

<medders> that would be impressive

<gord> I tried something twice once, but then some arse said that "having your cake and eating it wasn't possible"

<GazzaK> tis, it's my party

<medders> theres a party? :D

<GazzaK> there is

<GazzaK> here

<GazzaK> now

<GazzaK> wooo

* gord dances

* medders starts to dance like a chicken

<GazzaK> funky chicken, lol

<medders> the birdie song ftw

<GazzaK> ftw - die!!!!!

<gord> I agree

* medders dies

<medders> poo

<X3N> well i got 16 things on my list

<GazzaK> X3N, any easy ones?

<X3N> 4 easy ones

<GazzaK> I know popey said get the biggest ones, but I think picking off the small ones, gives satisfaction and quick results, to make you feel better, and then makes the big ones easier to handle

<DaveMorris> see if you can break the big ones down into smaller tasks which can be accomplished

<popey> true

<treb0r> hey

<treb0r> Anybody know anything about the UK Loco? I would like to come to / help out at an Ubuntu face to face meeting....

<X3N> Hi treb0r

<X3N> This is the uk loco's irc channel

<X3N> this is our main page, you should be able to find out about pretty much everything to do with the UK loco team : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

<treb0r> HI. Well, I'm in the right place I guess. I bought the official ubuntu book on Friday, and I was very impressed with all the info on the Ubuntu community. I'd really like to get involved...

<X3N> cool, well welcome, getting involved is very simple

<X3N> we have online meetings in this channel and we also have an active mailing list

<treb0r> I'm based in West Yorkshire. I was wondering about maybe oraganising something up here.

<gord> i would guess that most members are more southerly than that treb0r

<mrben> :O

<DaveMorris> I've no idea about the distribution of people around the country

<mrben> so not

<mrben> there's a bunch of folk in Yorkshire, for a start

<X3N> sounds good, best thing to do is send an email to the ubuntu-uk mailing list

<mrben> and some of us are a good deal further north....

<DaveMorris> but I guess we just get a list of where people are and work out an avergae middle for them, and select a town/city around them

<DaveMorris> will prob be in the midlands, somewhere

<gord> I didn't say that their wern't anyone from the north mrben, I said most are prolly from the south ;)

<X3N> we should get a frapper map

<GazzaK> you could all come down to the east coast for a BBQ :-)

<treb0r> How about regional meetings, and then a big national annual one, or something?

<DaveMorris> Popey, Loudmouth, myself are all south,

<mrben> sheepeatingtaz is north, as am I

* mrben quickly scans the nicks for other familiar names

<X3N> hmm that's poo, frappr now needs flash player => 8

<popey> :(

<gord> flash 9 is all finalised now isn't it?

<popey> well, given flash 9 is now out...

<X3N> there wasn't ever a flash player 8 for linux was there ?

<popey> no

<treb0r> I have an office in a building with a lovely old auditorium, a restaurant, and sleeping facilities. Also nice place for walking etc. Be great for an Ubuntu conference.

<treb0r> and flash sucks ;-)

<DaveMorris> I work in Brighton uni and could poss get free/cheap rooms for it

<popey> treb0r: where in the world are you?

<DaveMorris> But I'm too far south for a lot of people

<popey> france?

<treb0r> Hebden Bridge. And no, I'm not a Lesbian ;-).

<popey> er

<DaveMorris> which county?

<popey> methinks the lady doth protest too much

<mrben> 14:02 < treb0r> I'm based in West Yorkshire.

<treb0r> West Yorks. Halfway between Leeds and Manchester. Supposed to be Lesbian captial of UK, but that's another story..

<DaveMorris> and I think the Lesbian part was to do with Brighton

<GazzaK> do they all wear big boots then?

<mrben> anybody here using Cinelerra under Ubuntu?

<DaveMorris> name rings a bell

<popey> no

<popey> i use avidemux

<popey> never got on with cinelerra

<DaveMorris> no, I look at using it but never got around to it

<gord> cinelerra didn't work with edgy last time I looked, getting it from the repos anyway

<treb0r> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,529173,00.html

<treb0r> Sorry. OT. Now about that meeting...

<mrben> popey: is avidemux usable for anything other than very basic edits?

<mrben> I'm using Kino mostly at the moment, but I'm feeling the limitations

<mrben> And don't really want to do down the MainActor route

<mrben> and Pitivi isn't nearly ready....

<DaveMorris> treb0r, I thinks its a good idea, but will take a while for it to be discussed, I'm sure they might bring it up at their next meeting

<X3N> also send an email to the mailing list with your proposals :)

<treb0r> OK, maybe I will post a suggestion to the mailing list. I don't want to seem over eager, but it would be a good place for it, even if just a regional meeting.

<DaveMorris> the other possible place is maybe in London before/after the linux expo

<DaveMorris> as people could get their work to pay for it all then

<GazzaK> my work will not pay for me to go to LinuxWorld :-(

<medders> do you have to pay to get in?

<DaveMorris> £15

<GazzaK> nope

<GazzaK> oh, not on pre-booked

<popey> mrben: I only do basic editing

<DaveMorris> yeah, my boss decided to let me go the day before

<DaveMorris> and paid for it :)

<medders> okay, cheers

<medders> nice

<medders> when 's the next one?

<treb0r> Nor mine, I'm self employed. I'm more into the idea of decentralised meetings, and maybe one big national one annually.

<DaveMorris> sept/oct I think

* mrben wonders whether or not $199 is worth paying for video editing software under Linux

<medders> Would you say it's worth going to?

<DaveMorris> depends how you get on with the free ones

<treb0r> Potential venue: http://www.yorkshirenet.co.uk/accgde/hebdenhouse/index.htm

<DaveMorris> has a lot of hardware vendors, but it still interesting

<DaveMorris> esp if you pre book and go for free

<medders> I've never been to an expo before so I'm not sure what to expect

<GazzaK> I found it rather boring, but thats mostly due to not knowing anyone and also I suffer from agoraphobia a bit, so was a bit interesting

<DaveMorris> treb0r, thats yours?

<DaveMorris> agoraphobia?

<medders> thats the fear of open spaces isnt it?

<treb0r> DaveMorris: No, I don't own it, I just rent an office there.

<DaveMorris> ahhh

<GazzaK> medders, it's a fear of closed in spaces

<DaveMorris> Gazzak, don't go to LoudMouth's office then

<medders> GazzaK: I thought that was claustraphobia, though I might be wrong

<GazzaK> yeah, thats a outdoor loo isn't it

<DaveMorris> pretty much

<DaveMorris> you can just about sit in it

<treb0r> I've been thinking about organising a general conference on Free Software for ages, but I really like Ubuntu, and would prefer to do it as a joint effort. There is real groundswell of interest around here, and it would be fantastic to have an 'open session' where memebers of the public can come for questions and maybe an installfest..

<DaveMorris> have you got a local LUG?

<treb0r> The is one in Leeds, but I don't find LUGs that helpful for reaching out to the non technical user. I was hoping that Ubuntu LoCos might be less elitist..

<DaveMorris> well my local LUG, SLUG, go to computer fairs ever month and have a small stand in there to answer questions etc

<DaveMorris> *every

<treb0r> Yes, but that is still preaching to the geeks. I like the inclusive atmosphere that is projected by Ubuntu - I would like to help take the message to the normal folks, especially small business.

<GazzaK> brrrrr, tis cold outside

<popey> and you think joe public non-geek would go to a conference?

<GazzaK> I still think a mailmerge aimed at school IT departments would work

<GazzaK> how many secondary schools are there in the UK?

<popey> "lots"

<popey> how many of them will be "allowed" to go to a conference?

<popey> given the software they use is predominantly selected for them

<popey> doesn't schoolforge meet up regularly?

* GazzaK sits and shivers

<gord> a situation where small businesses are invited to some sort of presentation (possibly at various dates up and down the country) would be nice... nice but expensive

<treb0r> I think that joe public non geek are becoming more and more interested in free software, but a conference would have to be well marketed to succeed. I like to sell ubuntu as 'Wholefood for you hard drive', which get's people attention. Especially around here where everybody seems to buy ethical everything anyway.

<popey> something like linuxworld expo?

<treb0r> gord: That's why I'd like to combine the conference idea withan Ubuntu meeting proper, and a chance for people to get way from the City and maybe take in a walk too.

<popey> what would be at the conference/talks?

<popey> stands? that kind of thing?

<treb0r> Well, off the top of my head, it would be nice to have a panel of experts explaining the history and philosphy behind FLOSS and Ubuntu, followed by questions and an install fest.

<popey> sounds like lugradio

<treb0r> Then on day 2, a meeting for Ubuntu geeks, followed by a nice walk and meal in a pub, or something..

<popey> s/lugradio/ lugradio live

<treb0r> I struggle to see how Advocating Ubuntu to existing Linux users can really be seen as Advocacy.

<popey> can be motivational

<popey> train the trainer

<medders> or just getting more Ubuntu users from the rest of the linux community would be good too

<medders> like suse maybe ;-)

<GazzaK> shhh

<GazzaK> :p

<gord> I thought it was funny when mr shuttleworth asked suse devs who didn't like the whole ms deal to come over to ubuntu and everyone else went :O!!!! like he had eaten some babys or som't

<mrben> I think everyone was mad because they didn't think of it first, or didn't have the balls to say it....

<mattl> i think if people are trying to get users from any distro to move, they should be looking to get people onto gnewsense.

<mrben> meh

<mattl> but i don't see much difference between ubuntu and say, fedora.

<mrben> gnewsense need to do what Aq says, and make themselves a simple apt-get away from stock ubuntu

<popey> but if you install ubuntu you have already crossed the line

<popey> making it apt-gettable would mean installing evil stuff then uninstalling it

<mrben> popey: yes, but people don't necessarily want to blow away an existing install just to reinstall everything they've already got

<mattl> mrben: nah, i think gNewSense is doing a good thing, but I think there's a need for a script or something to make Ubuntu free.

<mrben> there's no advantage to installing gnewsense over ubuntu, other than the Free aspect

<popey> mrben: but that happens what ever distro you switch from/to

<mattl> Aq and I did some work on making his Edgy box free before xmas.

<mrben> popey: not so

<popey> you cant easily migrate from *any* distro to *any* other

<popey> aside from debian->ubuntu

<mrben> popey: you can migrate between Ubuntus easily

<popey> you know exactly what i mean

<mrben> Ubuntu -> Kubuntu -> Xubuntu

<popey> between distros

<DaveMorris> I went from gentoo to ubuntu keeping my SW raid and lvm2 intact

<popey> if we are talking Suse -> ubuntu

<popey> then ubuntu -> kubuntu is NOT the same thing

<popey> equally ubuntu -> gnewsense isnt either

<mrben> I thought gnewsense was supposed to be a derivative?

<popey> in the same way debian is, yes

<gord> whatever happened to the idea of creating an official free software only version of ubuntu? gnubuntu I thought it was gonna be called

<mrben> personally, I'm still not convinced that it isn't wasted effort anyway

<popey> what? wasted effort creating a totally free distro?

<mrben> Debian spent all that time with their social contract, and trying to be Free, only for rms to turn round and say "fsck a bunch of debian, you should all use Utoto-E"

<popey> I admire what they have achieveed

<mattl> gord: RMS didn't like the name GNUbuntu for a good reason.

<mattl> mrben: Debian didn't try too hard to be free then they've got a whole non-free repository.

<popey> exactly

<mattl> s/then/when

<mrben> mattl: but they did separate it out, unlike other distros

<mrben> they were trying to give people the choice

<popey> which is directly comparable with "restricted" and "universe"

<popey> but ubuntu has restricted in by default

<popey> not out by default

<popey> s/universe/multiverse, sorry

<medders> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NoBlobsByDefaultPetition <-- If this has any effect it should help

<mattl> mrben: that's not enough. distributions to be free, shouldn't distribute non-free software.. people can install non-free software and we can't tell them otherwise, but distros shouldn't distribute it :)

<medders> then people have a choice

<mrben> I'm sorry, but thats wank

<mrben> pure, unadulterated wank

<mrben> (IMHO)

<mattl> okay, how come?

<mrben> if it's not in a repo, then you've already made the choice for people

<gord> you can't combat someones argument with a statement like that mrben ;)

<mrben> it's like saying "yeah, people can use LPG instead of petrol"

<mrben> but it's fscking impossible to buy the bloody stuff

<mrben> if you want people to have a choice, then it needs to be on a level playing field

<mrben> otherwise, we might as well be microsoft....

<gord> a part of free software is the freedom to not choose free software

<mrben> YMMV, IANAL

<mattl> the goal is freedom, mrben. the goal is not to make it easier to ship opera.

<mrben> freedom, or Freedom? ;)

<mattl> if people want to choose to install Opera, we can't stop that.

<mrben> if you want people to be free, and you want them to choose Free, then you need to give them the choice, and the reasons why the better choice is better

<popey> constrictor: just the man"

<mattl> but we can not offer them Opera in the official Ubuntu repos.

<popey> s/"/!

<constrictor> hello#

<gord> if ubuntu was a free software only distro then I would agree, but its not

<mattl> mrben: i don't see how someone using proprietary software can be free.

<mattl> gord: it could be though.

<popey> constrictor: there is a bug report about your pcmcia card

<constrictor> really

<constrictor> where?

<treb0r> This is a very interesting argument. I think that this issue is a large one. I also think that Ubuntu manages to tread a fine line quite well. It is different to Fedora because there is no enterprise version of Ubuntu.

<popey> just trying to find it

<popey> constrictor: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/58117

<constrictor> oh wow

<constrictor> thanks popey

<constrictor> can i call you pope

<constrictor> :-P

<popey> you can try

<treb0r> I also agree with mattl - the perfect solution would be a truly free distro that provides a mechansim for those that want / need to install non free components. But until there is truly open hardware available, most of us need aT LEAST SOME NON FREE STUFF TO GET BY...

<popey> heh

<mattl> treb0r: i'm not suggesting any mechanism for non-free components, just that we don't make it purposefully harder for people.

<popey> dont try to argue you "need" non-free stuff treb0r, you will likely lose :)

<mattl> treb0r: what non-free you got? I understand some people use 3d graphics cards and wireless drivers, but what else do you have?

<popey> most people don't *need* non-free

<popey> they choose to install it

<medders> I had a monitor a while back that needed a nvidia driver for some reason

<medders> else it would go black when GDM starts

<mattl> medders: that's a bit odd.

<stdin> a monitor that needed the nvidia driver? that sounds odd

<popey> bug in nv

<medders> mattl: Tell me about it, I was vay confused, but it gave me the bargining power to get a new monito off my parents ;-)

<popey> my monitor didn't work well with the nv driver

<popey> changed to binary blob, it worked

<popey> of course you should report a bug on nv

<mattl> the only machine i had with an nv card was my eMac, and that worked really nicely with er.. Dapper -1

<medders> that was back in the day when I was scared of launchpad :)

<medders> in all it's white and blue goodness

<mattl> medders: oh, i'm still scared of launchpad, but for different reasons i suspect ;)

<popey> hahah

<mattl> i think i'd be less scared of launchpad if it bore the legend ALL YOUR BUGS ARE BELONG TO US

<mattl> only a little bit less, though.

<medders> and obviously it needs a huge picture of mark at the top to keep us loyal ;)

<popey> breezy

<popey> btw

<popey> dapper -1

<mattl> gord: how do you find sky broadband?

<popey> hehehe

<popey> was going to ask same

<treb0r> mattl: Exactly - I need madwifi for my wireless card, and untill recently, drivers for my ati graphics card.

<gord> ... if it wasn't for this awful router it'd be ok... moneys tight at the moment though so I can't afford to get a new one yet

<treb0r> I have to admit that I would prefer to toe the RMS line if possible.

* popey notes that when he suggested to mattl that he " needed " wifi, mattl said he would buy me a cable :)

<treb0r> popey: Well, that's fine for the office, but what about when I'm out and about?

<gord> you know when you get a 'free' router but can't get the username/password out of it and then realise they altered the netgear code to not give it out your gonna have a bumpy road...

<mattl> treb0r: connect your cellphone to your laptop and use that?

<mattl> popey: do i install owe you a cat-5 and a latte?

<popey> heheh

<treb0r> mattl: sounds good, but how?

<popey> no mattl I use cable now :)

<popey> treb0r: bluetooth

<mattl> yeah, bluetooth or failing that, a phone => usb cable.

<treb0r> There are interesting parallels between vegetarians / vegans ubuntu/ gnewsense users

<mattl> how much network do you really need on the go?

<mattl> treb0r: as a vegetarian gnewsense user, i'm offended by that comment ;)

<treb0r> I have a terribly unfree blackberry that won't do any of that

<GazzaK> mattl, seriously?

<treb0r> mattl: What, after all that you're telling me you eat dairy products?

* popey has a terribly unfree but more free than blackberry,palm

* GazzaK has a notebook

<mattl> GazzaK: er.. i am a vegetarian gnewsense user, i'm not actually offended.

<GazzaK> really, wow

<GazzaK> do you have a 2cv?

<mattl> no, i walk or take public transport.

<treb0r> mattl: you really should be ashamed of yourself.

<mattl> treb0r: sure. i eat cheese, it's a good source of calcium.

<mattl> most meals don't have much dairy in them.

<treb0r> According to my friend at the local vegan housing coop, vegetarians are far worse than carnivores

<GazzaK> cheese is wonderful

<treb0r> ANd yes, so is madwifi ;-)

<mattl> treb0r: how so? i buy most of my food locally from coops.

<treb0r> Well, I think it had something to do with the CO2 emssions of dairy cows ;-)

<GazzaK> mooooo

<Seeker`> treb0r: its the methane you have to worry about

<treb0r> As I said, interesting Parallels.

<mattl> treb0r: i could go vegan tomorrow. it's really not a problem for me, i just happen to like cheese and the small amount of organic cheddar i buy each month is really not a problem :)

<constrictor> there doesn't seem to be a solid solution to my card problem popey, but at least i know it's been flagged

<constrictor> maybe i'll wait for fiesty

<constrictor> or get another damn card

<popey> waiting for feisty will only help if it is fixed between 2.6.17 and 2.6.20

<popey> if it isn't then you will still be stuffed

<treb0r> mattl: I could go gnewsense tomorrow. it's really not a problem for me, i just happen to like accessing the net when I'm out and about and the small amount of non free software I use is not a problem :)

<constrictor> so then i guess it's the second option

* popey installed gnewsense in a vm

<mattl> so, what do you use, non-free wise?

<popey> constrictor: find one that works first

<popey> did you buy it in pcworld?

<constrictor> curry's

<popey> ok, is it the only one they do?

<treb0r> Madwifi only, I think. I'm using Edgy on a laptop.

<constrictor> iit looks like it

<DaveMorris> any recommendtions on companys to provide pre build hardware thats meets our specifications?

<mattl> treb0r: sudo apt-get install vrms

* mrben just uses nvidia drivers, and a stack of Linux games

<mattl> DaveMorris: what are your specifications?

<treb0r> vrms?

<mattl> treb0r: yeah, virtual RMS.

<constrictor> i wanted to know if there was anyone in here using a pc card that worked?

<mattl> it'll list all the non-free stuff you've installed from packages.

<popey> constrictor: do you need super fast stuff?

<popey> you can look on the wiki there are some listed

<constrictor> i

<popey> if you dont need super fast then you could get an older card

<popey> e.g. orinocco

<treb0r> mattl: Very interesting, thanks..

<mattl> treb0r: i'd be curious to see a pastebin of what you've got installed.

<treb0r> Installing...

<popey> http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html want one

<popey> mattl: just install vrms, that will tell him :)

<constrictor> on linux devices.com popey?

<popey> no

<popey> the wiki

<treb0r> Will it cause my laptop to explode if it finds too much non free stuff?

<constrictor> oh ubuntu wiki?

<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs

<constrictor> thanks

<mattl> treb0r: hah no.

<treb0r> http://treb0r.pastebin.co.uk/9419

<mattl> also, what it lists as non-free is non-free against DFSG.

<mattl> treb0r: are you using a free ATI driver now?

<popey> heheh xmame

<mattl> the MAME license is lame.

<popey> is it?

<popey> what do they use?

<mattl> their own thing.

<gord> the mame one is one of those non commercial licences isn't it? I don't trust them

<popey> oh they have limits that you are not allowed to distribte the emulator with roms

<mattl> is like 'here's the source, but er.. you can't make your own versions'

<mrben> like the one for SMF forums

<mattl> another reason why the term 'open source' is worthless, IMO.

<popey> because people released mame with the roms and the copyright notices removed

<mrben> you're allowed to distribute instructions on how to modify the source, but you can't distribute modified code itself....

<medders> mine -> http://pastebin.co.uk/9420

<mrben> mattl: sadly, the term Free is even more useless than the term Open Source, IMHO

<mrben> creates too much confusion, and requires too much explanation

<mattl> mrben: nah. It only takes a few moments to explain to someone what Software Freedom is.

<treb0r> That java listing is wrong.It's now under the gpl

<mattl> treb0r: no it's not.

<medders> treb0r: That's what I thought as well

<gord> thats why some of use use Free Libre Open Source Software ;)

<mrben> mattl: clue - when people say "yeah, uh-huh", it doesn't mean they've understood ;)

<mrben> http://www.jedimoose.org/index.php/archives/2006/08/07/rms-was-wrong-too/

<treb0r> mattl: how come? I saw a big announcement the other week.

<mattl> treb0r: java will be released as free software by march, but the package you have will always be non-free.

<mrben> treb0r: I think the problem is that we need to get to a stage where people can come to Linux/Free desktop without any understand of Free Software and still have a positive, good experience

<mattl> medders: i checked the license. they're under a free license, but Debian and I disagree over that. the FSF agrees with me though.

<mrben> treb0r: the influx of cheap laptops, and the desirability amongst the general populous, has made this much more tricky, because laptops are harder to properly support

<medders> medders: googleearth? I rarely use it to be honest, I forgot it was install :)

<medders> i'm tlking to myself :P oops

<medders> mattl: ^

<mattl> heh. remove it ;)

<mattl> i'll buy you a lollypop.

* popey installs vrms for a laugh

<popey> 17 non-free packages, 1.1% of 1548 installed packages.

<mattl> popey: pastebin your non-free ones :)

<popey> ok

<medders> mattl: a red an white swirly lollypop?

* mattl braces himself for flash-players galore.

<mattl> medders: yes.

<popey> hahah

<medders> mattl: deal

<popey> it has not listed everything

<mattl> heh, URL?

<popey> give me a pastebin

<popey> the one i just tried tells me I am spamming

<mattl> http://pastebin.co.uk/

<treb0r> mattl: I was surpised at how much non free stuff I have installed. How has your experience of gnewsesne measured up to Ubuntu?

* mrben installs vrms for a laugh

<mattl> treb0r: i don't find it very different, tbh.

* mrben is 0.8%!

<mrben> in your face popey!

<medders> mattl: http://pastebin.co.uk/9423 you owe me a lollypop :)

<treb0r> mattl: Are you using a laptop?

<mattl> treb0r: because i always removed non-free stuff anyways.

<popey> http://pastebin.co.uk/9424

<mattl> treb0r: yup. Apple PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz 1Gb 256Mb ATI Graphics.

<popey> i can reduce mine by removing old kernels mrben :)

<treb0r> DO you have 3d working?

<popey> me?

<popey> yes

<popey> oh,sorry, not me

<mattl> treb0r: no, but then i can't get proprietary drivers anyway.

<mattl> medders: one lollypop next time i see you, sir.

<mrben> http://pastebin.co.uk/9425

<medders> \o/

<mattl> treb0r: 3d is not important to me. i write code, write prose and make comic books.

<gord> for some reason vrms highlights 'autoconf-doc' as non-free for me... thats... weird

<mrben> although, it missed all the games I have installed

<treb0r> Interesting. I rewally don't like the idea of giving up XMAME. I might have to do some work

<mrben> because they aren't packages

<mattl> what are you all using java for? i can't think of anything i use that needs it.

<gord> xmame is dead last time I checked treb0r, sdlmame is taking it over

<popey> gallery remote

<mattl> what are they?

<popey> to upload pictures to my open source gallery :)

<mattl> popey: aha.

<popey> hahah

<mattl> see i'm not perfect there. i use Flickr.

* popey points and laughs at skype on mrben

<mattl> I use Flickr but I also use f-spot and keep photos on my own server. I use Flickr more for the sharing aspect.

* mattl is interested in free culture too.

<popey> i dont like flicR

<mattl> popey: i was given a pro account, i'll probably stop using it when i have to pay.

<mrben> popey: requirement for hashlugradio

<mrben> I also have openwengo installed

<popey> not tried that, any good?

<mattl> the concept of hashlugradio is bizarre. metapodcasting.

<popey> hahah

<popey> i was asked to be on hashlugradio, then I bitched about the whole ?podcast thing and then wasn't asked to be on

<popey> </unsurprised>

<mrben> popey: were you not?

<popey> were I not wot?

<mrben> popey: weird; I remember having a conversation about it

<mattl> popey: Aq told me if I came on LUGRadio and tried to say "GNU plus" everytime someone said Linux, I wouldn't get very far.

<popey> yes, the week afterwards

<mrben> ahhh

<popey> but i was asked a couple of weeks before that

<mrben> FWIW I did have a long conversation with the guys about using openwengo rather than skype

* popey doesn't mind

<popey> just pointing it out

<mrben> but was overruled on basis of sound quality and recordability

<mrben> someone _really_ needs to write a good, open VOIP client

<mrben> that gives skype-like quality

<mrben> and conference calling and recording-made-simple

<mattl> yeah, they do.

<gord> that uses speex as man that software is fantastic

<mattl> that's what's holding me back from doing my podcast.

<constrictor> found a wireless card i think i'll buy. I'll get the netgear WG511T supposed to work out the box on edgy and dapper

<mattl> probably going to do it with a tape recorder or something.

<popey> hah

<mrben> gord: speex is certainly tempting, although you'd be screwed if you wanted music too

<popey> edison cylinder

<gord> thats why you provide speex and vorbis ;)

<mrben> mattl: I've listened to a podcast that records using audacity at both ends of a phone conversation

<mattl> popey: i have some music on the edison cylinder, it's quite nice.

<mrben> and then is spliced together

<popey> hahaha

<mattl> mrben: hm. that could work.

<mrben> mattl: it does work.....

<mattl> imagine doing interviews.

<mrben> it's a bit more work, but the quality is top notch

<mattl> "RMS, please start your recording."

<mrben> interviews are more tricky, though....

<mattl> actually, i have a voicemail that records to mp3.

<mattl> i wonder if i could three way to that.

<popey> mp3 you say?

<mrben> at that point, the best thing is to get a good quality mike attached to your phone

* popey has two quality mics

<mattl> popey: yup. until i live in the USA, mp3 decoding is fine :)

<popey> Shure Sm58s

<gord> it might be legal but is it moral?

<mrben> great mikes; but if you can get something that actually attaches to a phone, you'd be better off

<DaveMorris> dosen't the patent on mp3 run out soon, like 2011

<mattl> gord: well, i encode my music to ogg vorbis, but i get sent a lot of mp3 files to work with, and as long as i use a free software tool to play them and don't promote them, i don't see a morality issue.

<mattl> i've thought about this stuff quite a lot.

<popey> clearly

<gord> I have the view that if you use software that decodes mp3s then you are creating a need for mp3 software which is supporting mp3 in the end, even if you don't distribute the mp3 or promote them as such

<DaveMorris> 2012 the mp Patent (5579430) expires

<DaveMorris> *mp3

<gord> pity that by then unless we succeed most stuff with be covered in drm instead =\

<DaveMorris> yep

<DaveMorris> however drm is crap, because if I can hear/see the multimedia then I can copy it

<DaveMorris> drm isn't about stopping us watching the content etc anyway, its about wrapping the said content in a container that never expires like copyright does

<gord> its not about copy protection, its about making you only use (for example) apple products with songs that you get from apple web stores

<medders> its about taking away our rights to sell back to us later

<medders> or so i've read

<DaveMorris> well with a song its copyright runs out after 50 years

* popey sheds a tear of blood for (Sir) Cliff of Richardshire

<DaveMorris> and we can re use it etc, but if its in drm, then we can never remix that song, share that song etc

<DaveMorris> I like the way dead artists signed that Telegraph page backing the extension of copyright in the UK

<gord> the copyright doesn't properly run out, for example you could create a cliff richard tribute band (bleeeeeeeehhhhh) when his copyright runs out but that doesn't mean the original recordings are free to use. even then I still think some royalties have to be paid

<mattl> gord: most people who send me mp3s now send me ogg vorbis files... however, some people send to me as part of a much wider system and it's very hard to change that, though i am trying.

<DaveMorris> the copyright on the performance runs out X number of years after the death of the artist I believe

<mattl> brb

<DaveMorris> although I have no links to back this up

<gord> Im pretty sure someone like disney still owns the copyright to happy birthday which they got in the 1920's or som't, I read somethin like that

<popey> *ALERT* wild speculation *ALERT*

<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

<popey> "Copyright in a work expires 70 years after the death of the person or people who determine the length of copyright. "

<gord> eep, big paste:

<gord> The melody of "Happy Birthday to You" was written by American sisters Patty Hill and Mildred J. Hill in 1893 when they were school teachers in Louisville, Kentucky. The verse was originally intended as a classroom greeting entitled "Good Morning to All". The version as we know it was copyrighted in 1935 by the Summy Company as an arrangement by Preston Ware Orem, and is scheduled to expire in 2030. This was the first known written version to include t

<gord> he lyrics. The company holding the copyright was purchased by Warner Chappell in 1990 for $15 million dollars, with the value of "Happy Birthday" estimated at $5 million.

<mattl> the lyrics are the copyrighted item though.

<mattl> make up your own words and sing them to the same tune and record it and you shouldn't see anyone sue you.

<DaveMorris> Performers' and recording rights subsist for 50 years after a performance takes place, or, if a recording of the performance is released during that period for 50 years from that release.

<DaveMorris> the songs on a CD can be classed as a performance

<popey> can people cite their quotes please?

<popey> "cliff richard blows goats, I have proof"

<DaveMorris> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom

<DaveMorris> under Performace rights

<mrben> http://www.livelinuxhelp.com/ <- interesting

<popey> so does that just connect to irc or something?

<mrben> particularly the software that they are using....

<mrben> popey: I don't think so - it's custom software

<mrben> http://www.craftysyntax.com/

<mrben> (open source)

<popey> i have asked a question

<popey> its a basic browser based chat thing

<popey> with constant refreshing

<mrben> looks like you have proper 1-to-1 chat with someone from a pool of users

<popey> " Moo:

<popey> What's the best distribution for a 64-bit CPU computer? Like an AMD 64 "

<popey> my question :)

<popey> lets see if he says gnewsense :)

<mrben> :)

<mrben> unlikely I feel

<mrben> let's hope he doesn't say Gentoo....

<popey> support5:

<popey> My personal preference is Redhat or Fedora

<mrben> interesting - not a bad answer

<mattl> Matt Lee:

<mattl> Question

<mattl> I'm from the GNU project.. Curious as to how this works... So, okay.. er.. my GNOME menu is flickering since I installed xchat.

<mrben> although, personally, I would have gone for "What do you want to use the system for?"

<popey> i asked why

<popey> " support5:

<popey> Again just personal preference - stablility especially on the 64-bit systems "

<mattl> ask him what Linux is ;)

<mattl> and then ask what GNU is.

<popey> you

<constrictor> anyone want a belkin wireless g+ pcmcia card?

<popey> I have asked my alloted questions

<constrictor> discounted

<popey> I will look silly asking what linuyx is :)

<Seeker`> popey: ask what linux ISN'T

<mattl> Seeker`: +1

<popey> you will not believe what he said next

<mattl> haha

<mattl> go on

<popey> Moo:

<popey> interesting service that you provide

<popey> support5:

<popey> Thanks - it beats going to IRC

<GazzaK> lol

<popey> support5:

<popey> Yeah usually when you do a text based install, it won't install the proper components for X

<popey> hmm, not sure I agree with that

<popey> ah

<popey> support5:

<popey> sorry wrong window

<popey> tee hee

<mattl> he's bringing up a debian image to try something for me.

<mattl> i'm going to shout at him if he's using vmware.

<gord> people donating their free time should not be something to play with :P

<mattl> gord: you jest!

* mattl tickles popey

<popey> whhhhy?

<popey> gord: you have to test the service

<popey> and I may well chuck a buck his way :)

<mrben> right - hometime for me

<mrben> l8rs all

<popey> ttfn

<mattl> popey: <gord> people donating their free time should not be something to play with :P

* popey wonders if gord is one of the suppot people

<mattl> heh.

<gord> pfft

<popey> interesting that it is registered through godaddy and domains by proxy

<popey> so you cant see who owns the domain

<popey> that instantly makes me suspicious

<jamesbrose> Watcha talking about?

<popey> the site only went live 15/1

<popey> http://www.livelinuxhelp.com/index.html

<popey> that jamesbrose

* popey ponders setting up liveubuntusupport.com :)

<jamesbrose> is it actually running?

<GazzaK> I might ask a really annoyingly newbie question, like: "how do I run photoshop"

<popey> yes jamesbrose

<jamesbrose> support5:

<jamesbrose> Thanks for visiting LiveLinuxHelp.com. Please hold while I read your question...

<jamesbrose> lol I wrote a 5 word question

<jamesbrose> They can't spell :P

<jamesbrose> "support5:

<jamesbrose> Ubuntu is a very popular distrobution for beginners, as well as Fedora "

<DaveMorris> thinks of a good question?

<mattl> ask them what gNewSense is.

<DaveMorris> asking the one I asked here about enabling insulrs for sudoers on ubuntu edgy

<jamesbrose> "James:

<jamesbrose> Sounds good, How many support staff do you have?

<jamesbrose> support5:

<jamesbrose> It depends on the time of day - anywhere between one and five "

<jamesbrose> It was set up in the past week..

<DaveMorris> they are looking into my question :)

<mattl> asking how i install gnewsense

<jamesbrose> haha

<DaveMorris> now should I ask them how I create my own distro?

<jamesbrose> no

<jamesbrose> how to

<popey> i suspect some of the answers entail using google :)

<jamesbrose> ask how to recover a system with the /etc deleted

<jamesbrose> or something really noobish :]

<mattl> erk.

<mattl> support5:

<mattl> I'm not familliar with gnewsense - what is the extension of the installation file, and what distrobution are you running?

<DaveMorris> yeah, I'm guessing most of them done using google and basic knowledge, the idea is good though

<DaveMorris> if they only have 1 support staff that'd explain why they take so long to get an answer

<popey> aww come on

<popey> they aren't doing bad

<jamesbrose> Who else has got support5 ?

<mattl> me

<jamesbrose> me lol

<mattl> </aol>

<DaveMorris> me

<DaveMorris> Dave:

<DaveMorris> Question

<DaveMorris> How do I enable insults for sudoers in Ubuntu Edgy?

<DaveMorris> support5:

<DaveMorris> Thanks for visiting LiveLinuxHelp.com. Please hold while I read your question...

<DaveMorris> support5:

<DaveMorris> Hello

<DaveMorris> support5:

<DaveMorris> Let me look into that for you - I've always seen them enabled by default

<DaveMorris> support5:

<DaveMorris> There is an insults flag that needs to be added to the sudoers file - let me see if i can find the syntax

<DaveMorris> support5:

<DaveMorris> Sorry for the delay - still looking

<DaveMorris> how long does it take to do man sudoers

<mattl> support5:

<mattl> Thanks! After you boot to the CD, it should automatically bring up the installation program

<mattl> Chris:

<mattl> Okay, I will try that. I'm trying to keep out of my dad's way.. earlier, he got really angry and because of a fight he had with a crab on the beach. He had to finish it off with a rock :/

<mattl> support5:

<mattl> Sorry to hear that. Anything else I can help you with?

<GazzaK> lol

<popey> heh

<popey> you loon

<GazzaK> thats funny but cruel

<DaveMorris> hmmm, 5 more test cases to write before I go home, I best get a move on

<mattl> I tell every customer support help thing I email about the crab story.

<jamesbrose> haha

<mattl> like a pub in norwich when i was booking a table, i pretended to be a retired army colonel and proceeded to tell them how i had been kicked out of the army for fighting with a crab.

<GazzaK> hahaaa

<jamesbrose> I actually loled then

<GazzaK> you maniac

<jamesbrose> lol'ed

<mattl> and i went to a BCS seminar and told people i was from the confectionery institute.

<snail> afternoon all

<GazzaK> hey snail thanks

<snail> GazzaK: no problem

<popey> how old are you mattl ?

<mattl> http://confectionary.org.uk/ - i think this is pretty funny.

<mattl> popey: 25, going on 12.

<GazzaK> hehe, like me, almost 30 going on 12½

<popey> hehe

* popey is 35 this year

<mattl> GazzaK: you're so l33t, you can do fractions.

<popey> (going on 12)

<GazzaK> :p

<GazzaK> ½¾ are on me keyboard

<GazzaK> ³²¹ same as them

<mattl> GazzaK: what kind of keyboard do you have?

<mattl> a l33tz0r one.

<snail> GazzaK: just you you can pretend you were there: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuartyeates/sets/72157594489718820/

<GazzaK> a lapdog

<popey> home time!

<GazzaK> mattl, hold alt-gr and press 5

<mattl> i don't have Alt Gr.

<mattl> i don't even have a right hand option key

<GazzaK> well, :p to you then

<GazzaK> get a better keyboard

<mattl> it's a laptop!

<mattl> but yes, better laptop is coming

<GazzaK> mines a lapdog too

<jamesbrose> LOL ive just noticed

<jamesbrose> see the user Nghtlght_ in here

<jamesbrose> Thats the proxy I set up on my old server with dreamhost

<jamesbrose> they obviously still havn't taken it down

<jamesbrose> I wonder how long its been in here...

<jamesbrose> Somebody ban it?

<Seeker`> jamesbrose: It has been idle for 17 days, 22 hours, 58 mins and 19 seconds

<jamesbrose> haha

<Seeker`> and has been online since 01/02/2007 12:49:49AM

<jamesbrose> :D

<Seeker`> jamesbrose: which type of dreamhost storage do you have?

<jamesbrose> did

<jamesbrose> Just the standard one

<jamesbrose> ermm

<jamesbrose> oh wait no

<jamesbrose> i can't remember..

<jamesbrose> 7.95 dollars for 190.5 GB woah thats pretty good

<mattl> popey: did you see this? "It is our vision that by Q4 2007, 94.5% of the population of Great Britain will be less than 200 yards from a British confectionary vending platform, be that electronic or conventional point-of-sale."

<jamesbrose> Anybody know a cheap shared hosting that i could recommend to my brother?

<mattl> jamesbrose: bytemark.co.uk

<jamesbrose> ssh access?

<mattl> yup.

<jamesbrose> Ah sweet

<jamesbrose> urgg...15 quid..

<jamesbrose> Nothing cheaper?

<GazzaK> I pay about 35 a year

<GazzaK> with euhosts.net

<jamesbrose> the 4.95 one?

<GazzaK> thats the one I have, but ssh is silver

<GazzaK> and a bit more

<GazzaK> it's billed yearly

<jamesbrose> hmm

<jamesbrose> Wanted pay-monthly..

<GazzaK> i'm off home now...

<popey> \o/ home

<popey> jamesbrose: bitfolk

<jamesbrose> urg

<jamesbrose> still havn't found one that i like

<alecjw> open source wins again: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37111

<tito_linux> hi

<tsmithe> hihihihihihihihihihihi

<jamesbrose> tsmithe, do you have a good host?

<tsmithe> nope - i host it on my dsl line :P

<alecjw> tsmithe: how can you stand the noise of a server unning 247?

<tsmithe> it's in a cupboard :)

<tsmithe> otherwise i can't

<tito_linux> My computer in my room is bad enough. It is as loud as a good sized server

<alecjw> tsmithe: what are the specs?

<tsmithe> pentium 4 ht 2.4 ghz

<tsmithe> 1536 mib ram

<tsmithe> 160 gib hd

<alecjw> tsmithe: you use that as a server!?

<alecjw> for a small website

<alecjw> ?

<alecjw> you must be mad! my server's a pentium 2, 32mb ra

<alecjw> m

<tsmithe> it's an old desktop

<alecjw> old!?

<tsmithe> which is obsolete due to new lappyness

<alecjw> old!?

<tsmithe> and it doesn't have a screen

<alecjw> that's better than my desktop!

<tsmithe> so it's only good as a server

<tsmithe> :)

<tsmithe> it's from sep 2004

<tsmithe> so 2 years and a third

<alecjw> you cna get a seperate screen

<alecjw> so's my compiuter

<alecjw> i got it when i started secondary school

<alecjw> i'm hiring it for 3 years, after which i'm gettign a system76 alppy

<tito_linux> If they ever start posting them

<tsmithe> hiring?

<alecjw> tito_linux: are you one of the people who replied to the "System76 in the UK?" thread?

<alecjw> tsmithe: ye

<alecjw> i have to pay about £20/monht

<LoudMouthMan> Hello ... im back ... finally the weeks of work are behind me !

<tito_linux> I started the thread alecjw!

<tsmithe> alecjw, that's one hell of a lot

* tsmithe food

<alecjw> tito_linux: meh. stop being smart

<tito_linux> impossible

<tito_linux> I began a revolution!!!

<alecjw> andi treplkied to it, tito_linux

<alecjw> *and ir reaplied

<alecjw> ughh. cant type at asl

<tito_linux> lol, I'm glad they get the picture

<alecjw> it would be nice if there was a link to your thread on ubuntu-uk.org

<alecjw> a "Sign the petition a few times" thing

<tito_linux> lol

<tito_linux> "We petition to prime minister to force system76 into sending us laptops"

<tito_linux> *the Prime Minister

<alecjw> lol

<popey> hmm

<popey> gb.archive.ubuntu.com has issues

<tsmithe> yup

<tsmithe> i use the main archive

<popey> normally its fine

<tsmithe> after i realised, i had 500 MiB of updates to get

<popey> right now it has a problem

<popey> and now its fine

<alecjw> tsmithe: what's wrong weith gb.archive.ubuntu.com?

<tsmithe> b0rken

<popey> this is the first time I have had a problem with it

<mdke> please report it to mirrors@ubuntu.com

<popey> i have ~8 machines here that use it

<popey> first time I have had a problem

<alecjw> tsmithe: i dont think that gb.archive.ubun tu.com is one server.i think that it automatically connects you to a server selected at random out of a list of about 50

<tsmithe> indeed

<mdke> yes, the gb one is in the main datacenter loop

<X3N> is it dns round robin ?

<popey> look more like it proxys

<alecjw> so unless there are lots of dodgy servers, it's not likely that you'll get a dodgy one. if you do, it retrys, which means you'll be forwarded to another server

<alecjw> X3N: i think so

<mdke> anyway, it's in the same loop as archive.ubuntu.com :)

<alecjw> mdke: is archive.ubuntu.;com one server or another round reobin of absolutelyy every single ubuntu mirror there is?

<alecjw> and typing is just as bad as usual

<mdke> alecjw: no, lots of mirrors are in different countries around the world, that's the whole point

<alecjw> mdke: but cgb.archive.ubuntu.com is british mirrors, right. but what'[s just plain archive.ubuntu.com? one server? american? every mirror there is?

<alecjw> *cgb=gb

<mdke> alecjw: I can't remember if they are in sweden or london.

<alecjw> but its just one main server, right?

<mdke> no, of course not

<alecjw> and the main debian server's in sweeden, so i expect that the ubunt one's in london

* tsmithe doesn't think it matters; as long as it works

<tsurc> right, so heres the crack. I have a / partition. I want to install over, but a want to keep /home intact. Is there any way that I can make /home a separate partition?

<tsmithe> yeah

<tsmithe> make some free space

<tsmithe> create a new partition

<tsmithe> copy the contents of home in there

<tsmithe> delete the other

<tsmithe> resize the home partition if you wish

<tsmithe> reinstall

<tsurc> the / takes up the whole drive

<tsurc> some space inside that.

<tsurc> so I guess I'll have to resize the /

<tsurc> right?

<tsurc> gparted?

<tsmithe> yeah

<tsurc> cool, thanks

<jamesbrose> Hey all

<popey> tsurc: don't forget to note what extra packages you have installed too before you reinstall :)

<tsmithe> yeah

<tsmithe> like debfoster style

<tsmithe> !debfoster

<ubotu> debfoster is a command to weed unnecessary .deb packages. See http://www.fruit.eu.org/debfoster/

<tsmithe> ftw

<jamesbrose> darn, still looking for hosting..

<tsurc> now "that" I do know how to do.

<tsurc> takes some time this resizing m-larkey

<tsurc> has anyone here had any experience of snmp?

<Seeker`> lo

<tsurc> lo seeker

<Seeker`> where is everyone?

* mdke points over there

<Seeker`> where?

<jamesbrose> there!

<tsmithe> we're behind you! (said in panto-esque fashion)

* Seeker` spins

*** alecjw is now known as Th3Gods

*** Th3Gods is now known as alecjw

*** Sio is now known as Sionide

<paradoxical21> Hey, what do I do for a "Linux/compiler.h: no such file or directory found" error?

<Seeker``> i think you may have to install the kernel source

<Seeker``> what are you trying t do?

<paradoxical21> I'm trying to install the update for TVtime.

<Seeker``> paradoxical21: How are you trying to install them?

<paradoxical21> make install.

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