<Simon80> indeed
<tonyyarusso> Then they come to you and say "um, why is it so slow"?
<lophyte> yeah, but that's all they need
<tonyyarusso> "have you run a spyware/virus check and defragged?"
<tonyyarusso> "what are those?"
<tonyyarusso> "Please help, it barely even runs!"
<tonyyarusso> "Figure it out *mutters under breath*. Or use Linux and learn how to never have that happen again."
<lophyte> sigh
<tonyyarusso> The only reason they get away with it is because their geeky friends keep bailing them out.
<tonyyarusso> Time to stop supporting Windows altogether, and then they'll realize what a pita it is
<lophyte> yeah I tried that.
<Simon80> and?
<lophyte> she won't stop bitching at me to reinstall Windows for her :P
<Simon80> lol
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: The answer is no.
<Simon80> her damn problem
<tonyyarusso> Period.
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> seriously
<lophyte> I just tried coercing her with KDE instead of Gnome
<lophyte> which imo has a smaller learning curve coming from Windows
<Simon80> lol, cause its increased complexity makes users feel at home
<lophyte> and she's just like "no, not Linux, I have to run to you every time i want to install something"
<rexbron> lophyte: does she still come to you with windows?
<Simon80> tell her, no, you don't have to, you can open synaptic and install it yourself.. jebus
<lophyte> yeah, but again, you can't install limewire (or even frostwire) with synaptic
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: Show her how to ask in #ubuntu
<tonyyarusso> Whatever you do, don't keep supporting the old way.
<lophyte> I bet she can't be bothered
<tonyyarusso> If she's using limewire, her Windows will probably cease to function within a few weeks anyway
<Simon80> me too
<Simon80> it's easier to ask in person
<rexbron> lol
<lophyte> people wants things to just work.. they don't want to run to someone every day for help
<lophyte> well, she does anyway
<tonyyarusso> exactly!
<tonyyarusso> That's my point
<Simon80> you guys
<Simon80> limewire is a gnutella client, right?
<lophyte> I'm pretty sure
<tonyyarusso> something like that
<lophyte> gtk-gnutella serves the same purpose
<Simon80> open synaptic, hit ctrl-f, search for gnutella, pick something
<Simon80> it's simple
<lophyte> and I'm sure there's a KDE gnutella client
<tonyyarusso> One of those peer-to-peer virus-sharing clients
<tonyyarusso> :P
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I think gtk-gnutella is all I see
<Simon80> there's a command line one
<Simon80> oh, nvm, the CLI one comes with a browser interface, cool
<lophyte> what about emule/edonkey
<Simon80> bittorrent
<Simon80> you get an invite to oinz orwhatever that is
<Simon80> and that's it
<lophyte> you can't download single songs on bittorrent
<Simon80> oinkz
<Simon80> well boo hoo
<lophyte> its usually full albums
<Simon80> sorry, lol
<Simon80> clearly oinkz is not what I'm thinking of... but it starts with an o
<Simon80> pink site
<lophyte> not sure
<Simon80> I'll figure it out
<Simon80> I don't have a membership though
<Simon80> ah, it's oink
<Simon80> http://oink.me.uk/
<Simon80> you need an invite, but I know someone who has it, and it's awesome
<Simon80> I think..
<lophyte> sigh
<Simon80> didn't get a chance to search for my classical
<Simon80> I'd have an invite, but I'm on ResNet at UW right now
<lophyte> I have a friend that goes to UW
<lophyte> he's in the arts and business program
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> I'm in Systems design eng
<lophyte> cool
<Simon80> full of physics and math this term, lol
<lophyte> apparently some guy pulled out a PowerBook with Ubuntu installed on it, and my friend got chatting with him
<lophyte> he played the fool and was all "what's Linux?"
<lophyte> then he pulled out his thinkbook with Ubuntu installed on it, hehe
<tonyyarusso> Simon80: W being ?
<lophyte> waterloo
<tonyyarusso> ah
<Simon80> :D
<tonyyarusso> To me that means Wisconsin still ;)
<lophyte> lol
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: thinkbook?
<Simon80> pad
<lophyte> right
<lophyte> thinkpad
<Simon80> I don't play the fool... I'm actually a bit too hardcore with the Windows hating. maybe
<tonyyarusso> Both of my parents and many of my friends went/go to U of Wisconsin, mostly Madison
<Simon80> well... not really, I guess
<Simon80> can't be too hardcore with the hating, only too much pressure on people to switch
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<Simon80> what I do is tell people that if they want to get started, they should come talk to me
<Simon80> nobody takes me up on it ;(
<tonyyarusso> I've gotten my gf and my dad to dualboot
<tonyyarusso> Others are more skeptical.
<Simon80> I've gotten my mom, older sister, younger sister, and my dad, but not really my dad
<Simon80> I don't know if my older sister is sticking with it, either
<tonyyarusso> My older sister can't even take care of her computer, and the younger doesn't give a damn
<Simon80> I think I'll call her
<Simon80> she's halfway around the world :D
<tonyyarusso> why am I so terrible with names...:S
<Simon80> yeah, about the same for me
<Simon80> but my younger is smart, and I expect her to take up the slack eventually
<Simon80> my older one, I never would have expected a switch out of her
<Simon80> but she went with a bricked lappy for a while, and then I walked her through an ubuntu install over the phone
<Simon80> it was nice
<Simon80> thank you windows
<Simon80> switch courtesy of you
<lophyte> unfortunately my gf isn't quite that smart :P
<lophyte> Windows starts to run slow and freeze up.. hey let's reinstall it so we can deal with the same issues in 3 months
<Simon80> anybody can do it, seriously, if my older sister did it, anyone can, she's doesn't give a fuck about computers
<lophyte> except she won't give it a chance
<Simon80> and seriously, I'm never installing windows for anyone again, unless they wanna pay me
<Simon80> neither should anyone in this channel if you ask me
<tonyyarusso> My gf should be smart, but sometimes makes me wonder...hasn't learned how to "look it up" for one.
<tonyyarusso> Or "Look at the menu items...it's right there"
<Simon80> unless the user NEEDS to run a windows app that doesn't run in wine
<Simon80> ...rare occurrence
<tonyyarusso> Simon80: I agree
<Simon80> and usually in that case they're literate enough to install it themselves
<lophyte> what about games?
<Simon80> see above
<Simon80> honest, if you're in this channel, you probably are inclined to support Ubuntu or Linux in general
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: See machines/toys note
<Simon80> or don't like Windows, whatever
<tonyyarusso> I don't care about gamers, myself
<lophyte> I have a dedicated box for emulation
<lophyte> and movies
<lophyte> it could probably be running Ubuntu if I researched emulators for Linux
<tonyyarusso> So, strategies for bringing in the folks who aren't initially interested?
<Simon80> lophyte, what systems?
<lophyte> I know there aer Linux emulators for NES and SNES
<lophyte> not sure about N64 and Playstation
<Simon80> and GBA
<lophyte> those are the 4 systems I've got on there
<Simon80> N64, look up mupen-64, it sort of so so works
<lophyte> I wonder if Project64 would run in wine
<Simon80> it works, but depends on the game, and the joystick input that I was using needed some coddling
<tonyyarusso> I took a box of shipit CDs, printed my page explanation (available if you want it) and stuck it in each on, and literally deposited them on my friends' doorsteps without their knowledge.
<Simon80> that's a good idea
<lophyte> oh, right, and my controllers probably won't work in linux
<Simon80> yeah they would
<Simon80> why wouldn't they?
<lophyte> I dunno..
<Simon80> joystick HID
<Simon80> try before you assume
<tonyyarusso> Plus, blogging about it helps
<lophyte> xbox controllers :P
<Simon80> I sold a DDR pad to someone and he had to install WinXP drivers
<Simon80> maybe I'll put up a note with a screenie of compiz... that'd be disingenuous though, compiz is still rough
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, I'd be cautious about that
<Simon80> ......it didn't work with my workspaces, otherwise I'd use it
<tonyyarusso> I haven't even mentioned gooey stuff to more than about three people.
<lophyte> soo yeah
<lophyte> how the hell do I get my gf to run linux
<rexbron> this is cool
<Simon80> well, and totem was fuckered unless I used xshm in the multimedia systems selector
<Simon80> but then it worked, like, side of cube and all
<lophyte> it pains me to see her running Windows
<rexbron> one of the books I am using for a research project is released under the CC
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: What's her main objection?
<tonyyarusso> You have to tailor your approach
<lophyte> that she has to run to me every time she wants to install something
<lophyte> because its not as simple as "download and double click"
<Simon80> if she comes to you for ANY windows support, put your foot down
<rexbron> lol the first page is a bash script
<tonyyarusso> That's just blatently not true though.
<Simon80> it's simpler than download and double click
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: It is for most things.
<rexbron> i agree
<rexbron> people tend to be supprised when you show them
<Simon80> yeah
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<tonyyarusso> Synaptic is pretty amazing
<tonyyarusso> Or even just Add/Remove, depending
<Simon80> haha, my fave thing is that I can start compiz easily
<Simon80> and nothing will happen
<Simon80> I mean, it's always been like that
<Simon80> but it's funny
<Simon80> cause it's like... pop
<Simon80> and all of a sudden, windows wobble
<Simon80> oh, actually, my main reason for not using it was that firefox's scrolling was slooooow
<rexbron> lol
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: So you show her how to install things, and maybe take care of the more complicated ones (like if she's really set on limewire for some reason)
<rexbron> I am waiting for feisty for compiz on my machine
<somerville32> tonyyarusso, Can I get the document from my gobby server?
<rexbron> Simon80: is Ubuntu going with compiz or beryl?
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: Hmm? I copied back to the wiki before I went to bed.
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: OH! The explanation?
<somerville32> Umm..
<tonyyarusso> I have it as .odt or .pdf
<somerville32> The code stuff I was doing
<Simon80> rexbron, as of my edgy install, compiz
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: Oooh. Maybe? Lemme look.
<Simon80> I would guess compiz personally...
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: The actual machine from that is in the shop, but I might have a ackup
* somerville32 hopes you do.
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: I thought you said that was just a one-day thing...
<somerville32> It was
<Simon80> wow, konqueror has an open with firefox menu entry
<Simon80> classy
<rexbron> ?
<Simon80> it's a classy move
<tonyyarusso> somerville32: I got nothing :(
<Simon80> I'm honestly considering switching, my biggest gripe is middle clicking on a tab to close it I think
<rexbron> switching to KDE?
<somerville32> Switch to Xubuntu :)
<rexbron> lol k
<Simon80> nah
<Simon80> thing is, I need my hotkeys, and my sys mon applet
<Simon80> THAT's why I use gnome, that simple
<Simon80> mostly cause of that applet I love
<tonyyarusso> Simon80: which is?
<Simon80> it's small, and tells me all about cpu,mem,net, and swap
<tonyyarusso> ah
<Simon80> THE system monitor applet
<Simon80> there's no ambiguity... I shouldn't have used the word my
<rexbron> Simon80: look at superkaramba
<rexbron> for KDE
<Simon80> isn't that on the desktop?
<Simon80> not the panel?
<rexbron> true
<Simon80> :(
<rexbron> but with Plasma,
<rexbron> it COULD be a in the tray
<rexbron> switch a(n) and in
<lophyte> "why do you want me to use linux so bad? the only good thing about it was that it didn't freeze like windows"
<Simon80> and the lack of crippleware
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: whylinuxisbetter.net
<Simon80> nothing is intentionally crippled
<lophyte> that's what I said..
<lophyte> no viruses
<lophyte> it doesn't degrade over time
<Simon80> ...I found whylinuxisbetter to be a bit biased... but still
<tonyyarusso> Simon80: Yeah, but who cares? It mentions the right points at least.
<Simon80> yep
<lophyte> "when I tried to send word documents to people, they couldn't open them"
<lophyte> I assume she was sending them .odt files
<tonyyarusso> That'll teach her "people" to use crippleware
<lophyte> "i tried to download shockwave, I downloaded it to the desktop but it wouldn't run"
<tonyyarusso> ie, MS Word
<Simon80> like, play hundreds of games for free, haha
<Simon80> just not good ones
<tonyyarusso> good enough for me
<Simon80> actually, I agree, this is good to link people to, it really sums it up
<tonyyarusso> And they won't know it's a tad biased until they've already switched ;)
<Simon80> haha
<lophyte> hahahaha
<lophyte> ahahaha
<lophyte> I win forever
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> what'd you do?
<lophyte> my girlfriend has 2 daughters..
<lophyte> 8 years old and 12 years old
<Simon80> wow, you're older than I
<lophyte> the 8 year old is like "how do I get into Windows?"
<lophyte> the 12 year old goes "why do you want Windows? Linux is better"
<Simon80> nice
<Simon80> nice nice
<lophyte> victory is ine
<lophyte> mine*
<Simon80> the 12 deserves a free pie
<lophyte> free beer
<lophyte> except
<lophyte> not
<Simon80> haha
<Simon80> yeah
<lophyte> I'm not as old as you think :P
<lophyte> I just date an older woman
<Simon80> nice, haha
<Simon80> with kids
<lophyte> indeed
<Simon80> lol, you're dating your buddy's mom
<Simon80> :P
<lophyte> I'm 21, she's 31
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: OMG, you win
<lophyte> well.. 22
<Simon80> I'm 20
<Simon80> and wow
<tonyyarusso> For the 12 yr old, not for dating older women.
<Simon80> you're the man, haha
<lophyte> in march
<Simon80> and I was gonna say, I'd give them a free beer... if your girlfriend were my girlfriend, it's highly probable she'd be ok with giving her 12 y o a free beer
<Simon80> cause I think that's common sense
<Simon80> but it's ok to disagree
<lophyte> we gave her vodka on new years eve
<Simon80> yeah
<tonyyarusso> That might be pushing it...
<lophyte> not a lot :P
<lophyte> she had a sip or two of a screwdriver
<Simon80> I mean, I think not wanting to give your kid ANY alcohol is unreasonable
<Simon80> I say one serving at a time is fine.. teach them to use and not abuse
<tonyyarusso> Agreed.
<Simon80> that's how I got brought up.. sort of
<lophyte> yup
<tonyyarusso> We grew up with the occasionally small glass of wine with dinner.
<Simon80> me too
<Simon80> and I'm better because of it
<tonyyarusso> Works way better
<Simon80> when I turn into a teen my dad went crazy and started insisting on pouring my drinks for me
<tonyyarusso> Otherwise they hit 21 and get all excited, hit the bar, and die.
<Simon80> yeah
<lophyte> yeah, true enough
<Simon80> I mean, people honestly fail at life sometimes
<rexbron> tonyyarusso: or worse, they cross the border for their 18th or 19th birthday, get hammered and try and drive back
<tonyyarusso> rexbron: True. I know some that crossed to Winnipeg, but they at least spent the night.
<lophyte> yeah, a lot of teens take a road trip to Quebec when they're 18
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> how horrible
<tonyyarusso> I think our drinking age is dumb anyway.
<Simon80> I do too
<rexbron> What is the purpose of your visit?
<Simon80> big rant starting subject for me
<Simon80> to get WASTED!
<rexbron> To get hammered bucase I can
<lophyte> lol
<tonyyarusso> You can vote, drive, get sent to Iraq, sign away your medical care, gamble, etc. @ 18, but they think you're going to wait three years to drink.
<lophyte> oh, US drinking age
<Simon80> HAHAHAHAHA PC jacking
<lophyte> yeah, 21 is pretty silly
<Simon80> I've thought of this
<Simon80> http://www.manucornet.net/pcjacking/
<Simon80> from the same guy, lmao
<Simon80> that's awesome, he's my hero
<tonyyarusso> Simon80: I totally did that! Edgy release day, the Staples in town!
<Simon80> nice
<Simon80> edgy is buggy though :(
<tonyyarusso> I plan more such exploits in the near future too.
<lophyte> we gotta do that for the Feisty release
<Simon80> totem movie resize... ekiga
<lophyte> in Toronto
<tonyyarusso> It was even better than just jacking and running.
<Simon80> yeah, feisty, fuck yeah
<tonyyarusso> I spent an *hour* in the store talking to people about it before they caught on.
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> they put an end to it, eh?
<tonyyarusso> Eventually.
<tonyyarusso> Two employees walked by while I was talking to someone.
<tonyyarusso> Asked if I worked there.
<tonyyarusso> "Nope"
<tonyyarusso> "Hmm. You need to leave then."
<tonyyarusso> "'k"
<tonyyarusso> was all friendly-like, mostly
<Simon80> lol
<rexbron> tonyyarusso: you forgot you can smoke at 18
<Simon80> yuck
<Simon80> that's bad
<tonyyarusso> rexbron: Oh yeah. But smokers should be shipped to foreign lands.
<lophyte> rexbron: not in the US, I don't think
<lophyte> or can you?
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: Most states yes.
<lophyte> ah
<tonyyarusso> And you can smoke in workplaces and restaurants most places too - it's awful.
<rexbron> I am anti-smoke mind you
<lophyte> same
<Simon80> :)
<rexbron> just making the point that you can kill your lungs at 18
<tonyyarusso> I wish they'd start enforcing the laws here though.
<tonyyarusso> The 9m from any door thing?
<tonyyarusso> Makes me want to just smack people. Or start carrying a supersoaker
<lophyte> okay
<lophyte> victory is not mine
<Simon80> :(
<Simon80> put your foot down
<Simon80> I mean, if she needs support
<lophyte> the 12 year old just asked me to set up a dual boot on her machine
<lophyte> I was like
<lophyte> I thought you just said Linux was better
<lophyte> "it is but I miss Windows"
<Simon80> lol
<lophyte> in other words, she misses the fancy shit you can do with MSN Messenger
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> is she using kopete?
<lophyte> yeah
<Simon80> doesn't have winks or custom emoticons, that's it
<lophyte> yup
<Simon80> it sort of does have custom emoticons... someone needs to add UI to control it
<lophyte> she wants winks :P
<Simon80> that's horrible, winks are the work of satan
<lophyte> indeed, but she's 12.
* rexbron never found any use for winks
<Simon80> yep
<lophyte> kids like fancy things
<Simon80> don't worry, she'll grow up
<Simon80> :D
<rexbron> lol
<tonyyarusso> I hate all "the fancy shit". Messengers are for *gasp* messages!
<Simon80> lol
<lophyte> me too
<rexbron> lophyte: set her up with beryl
<Simon80> haha
<Simon80> yeah
<rexbron> that some fancy shit
<rexbron> *thats
<lophyte> lol
<lophyte> her computer isn't good enough
<Simon80> or compiz.. if you're lazy, compiz is easier to set up... I guess beryl's got more candy though
<Simon80> specs?
<rexbron> who needs winks when your windows WOBBLE !
<lophyte> P3 733
<rexbron> keep her busy for hours
<lophyte> I think 128mb ram
<Simon80> oh, 128 is bad
<lophyte> and a crappy video card
<rexbron> xubuntu maybe?
<Simon80> damn compiz for not working with virtual desktops
<tonyyarusso> What's the next major shopping season? ie, when would be good to PC-jack?
<rexbron> I would be so into that
<tonyyarusso> Should we organize a PC-jacking day through ubuntu-ca?
<Simon80> it just flattened my 3 workspaces
<Simon80> haha, nice
<Simon80> I should bookmark that site
<lophyte> tonyyarusso: yes.. feisty release date.
<rexbron> Simon80: try alt arrow
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: Sounds good. Hopefully it will release early morning again so we can get burning.
<rexbron> Simon80: if you have enabled compiz, the cube is most likely active
<Simon80> rexbron, I'm not a n00b
<rexbron> lol ok
<tonyyarusso> I wonder how many stores there are for me to hit?
<Simon80> it does not work with fd.org's workspace switching crazyness, it used to, this is plain and simply a bug
<rexbron> how was I to know? :P
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I'm on IRC :D
<Simon80> that's a lie
<rexbron> O.o
<tonyyarusso> Future Shop, Staples, should look into others
<rexbron> the mac store on campus!
<tonyyarusso> Future shop doesn't even have their laptops' CD bays blocked by the locking mechanism like Staples.
<tonyyarusso> rexbron: You have a mac store? sweet
<tonyyarusso> Staples you can only do the desktops.
<rexbron> its more of a mac reseller
<tonyyarusso> But...........
<Simon80> eh?
<tonyyarusso> One of those completely unsecured desktops is hooked up to a like 2m widescreen monitor, right by the front door.
<Simon80> why not the lappies
<Simon80> haha
<tonyyarusso> That's the last target :P
<tonyyarusso> Then bolt
<Simon80> lol
<rexbron> lol gogogog
<Simon80> if you bolt, they'll remove t though
<Simon80> defeats the purpose
<rexbron> the linux bombshell has been planted
<Simon80> it*
<tonyyarusso> Well, not bolt _visibly_, just saunter to the door and watch from the parking lot with a stopwatch.
<tonyyarusso> And if 10 minutes later some employees see it, they will _have_ to go find the manager, and there will be a commotion, and everyone in the checkout line will notice.
<tonyyarusso> Oooh, he makes a good point. If you hit at lunch time they'll be under-staffed won't they?
<tonyyarusso> "This is the Knoppix Linux live distribution. I usually prefer Ubuntu, both install and live versions, but it required me to first answer a few questions using the keyboard before it really starts, and this make pcjacking harder."
<tonyyarusso> Is this still true? I don't use live CDs much.
<lophyte> no
<lophyte> Ubuntu boots right into the Live CD
<tonyyarusso> Awesome
<tonyyarusso> That's what I thought - this must be old
<tonyyarusso> A bunch of us have web space to host pictures of the exploits too don't we?
* tonyyarusso is getting excited already for April
<Simon80> http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10080745&catid=24713#
<Simon80> hahahahahaha
<Simon80> lmao
<Simon80> select excerpts:
<Simon80> A New Style of Gaming
<Simon80> Wii will break down that wall that separates video game players from everybody else.
<Simon80> and a header:
<Simon80> Break Down The Walls
<Simon80> you all know what I mean, right?
<tonyyarusso> no..
<Simon80> http://www.wiidamage.com/
<Simon80> :D
<tonyyarusso> aaah, right
<Simon80> yea
<Simon80> fun times
<tonyyarusso> eep, someone tried to PC jack with a hard drive install.
<tonyyarusso> Now that's just stupid
<lophyte> indeed
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> so um
<Simon80> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Members
<Simon80> how exclusive is this page, can I add myself?
<MagicFab> Simon80, go ahead
<MagicFab> As long as you really are/intend to participate :)
<Simon80> ok, but what does member's denote
<Simon80> participate how?
<Simon80> lol
<MagicFab> BTW, hilarious (wiidamage)
<Simon80> yeah, hole in TV
<Simon80> it's sad/funny
<MagicFab> brb
<tonyyarusso> Simon80: That page is pretty much open, it's just so we can keep track, not indicative of special status, afaik
<Simon80> ok
<Simon80> ty
<lophyte> indeed.
<lophyte> it's more or less a list of Canadian Ubuntu users, rather than "members"
<lophyte> there's people on there that have never been in here
<lophyte> and (I don't think) participate in the community at all
<lophyte> they're just users
<Simon80> lol, damn users
<Simon80> "using" things
<lophyte> lol
<lophyte> woot
<lophyte> timbits are no match for davebits
<deadcell>
<deadcell> sd
*** deadcell is now known as Azimuth
<Wrongway> anyone else awake at stupid o'clock in the morning?
<Wrongway> well, at least it's stupid o'clock on the wet coast
<Wrongway> yup, guess everyone's either sleeping or should be sleeping
<Wrongway> I'm a newbie to ubuntu, I'll be back at a sensible hour with some q's
<mneptok> heh
<mneptok> "no one answered me in less than 30 seconds. that means no one is active."
<lophyte> oi.. yay for pop presentations
<Alan-D> Hi people
<Alan-D> I can't get my linux server to see my windows network, can somebody help me?
<ejer> Alan-D: try typing smbtree
<ejer> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSamba
<Alan-D> ejer: it only sees itself
<ejer> check the dox
<ejer> go to places>network servers
<ejer> make sure windows firewall is not active, or is allowing windows sharing
<ejer> make sure something is being shared of course
<Alan-D> ejer: under network servers it sees my domain
<ejer> ok
<ejer> so log onto domain
<Alan-D> ejer: now it work, but I don't understand why...:'(
<ejer> because I am helping :)
<Alan-D> ejer: lol
<ejer> going to network servers is good way, everything is done automatic
<Alan-D> ejer: The only change that I make was to remove the domain name under that share
<ejer> here is some info on samba and domains https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSambaPDC
<Alan-D> ejer: Would you happen to know why my NT server can see my linux server, but not my AD servers? :-/
<ejer> has it been joined to AD?
<Alan-D> ejer: I haven't been able to join it to AD domain
<ejer> this would be the problem I guess
<ejer> I would ask in #samba
<ejer> I am certainly no AD expert
<Alan-D> ejer: Thanks..I'll look it up on that channel
<ejer> np
<dwatson> Hi I was hoping to get a little help with utf-8 and locale setup .. does anyone know how/where to look for this ??
<ejer> dwatson: sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
<dwatson> Hi Thanks for your help ..
<dwatson> Is this the same tool as on other debian type systems ??
<dwatson> Or do you know .. ??
<ejer> yes
<ejer> same deal AFGAIK
<dwatson> Great thanks for your help .. I'm going to try to see if this works .. I'm working on an embedded system that needs to support utf-8
<ejer> cool good luck!
<lophyte-> hey Burgwork
<Burgwork> hey lophyte-
<lophyte-> back in Victoria?
*** lophyte- is now known as lophyte
<mylesbraithwaite> if anyone has some time take a look at this survey http://www.gridter.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi?survey_name=survey
<Burgwork> mylesbraithwaite: sourcce?
<mylesbraithwaite> anyone http://www.gridter.com/survey.html
<Burgwork> who created that survey?
<mylesbraithwaite> i am not sure just found it on digg
<ejer> are my eyes deceiving me or is gentoo 4th most popular distro on that list?
<ejer> pretty silly survey I must say
<Wrongway> hey yo all
<Wrongway> any gurus available?
<ejer> no, but I am here :)
<Wrongway> you'll do :P
<Wrongway> I've just recently installed ubuntu, so I'm still comparing everything to windows
<ejer> np
<Wrongway> I'm having issues with permissions mostly
<ejer> ok
<ejer> what's the beef
<Wrongway> all these folders are telling me I'm not the owner and can't do stuff to them
<Wrongway> the main one is my other harddrive, which I've mounted to /media/storage
<Wrongway> I'm able to read/execute files on that drive, but not write
<ejer> ok
<johanbr> Wrongway: Which file system do you have on the drive?
<Wrongway> NTFS on the 2nd drive
<ejer> is it an external hard drive?
<Wrongway> no
<johanbr> How do you mount the drive?
<Wrongway> got some help from #ubuntu to do that a couple days ago
<Wrongway> not quite sure what all went down
<johanbr> What do you do to mount it?
<Wrongway> did something or other in that godawful dosprompt---err, terminal window
<Wrongway> now I just go to /mount/storage to view the files in it
<ejer> Wrongway: by default you will only have read access to it
<Wrongway> ok
<ejer> best thing to do is copy the files off it, and reformat it to a linux file system
<ejer> there are other ways, but they get complicated
<Wrongway> let's try and get complicated then
<Wrongway> not quite ready to swear off windows completely yet
<Wrongway> there's still enough space on that drive to install windows if need be :p
<ejer> ok
<ejer> you are running 6.10?
<Wrongway> no
<Wrongway> the LTS one
<ejer> ok
<ejer> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=217009
<ejer> follow steps for dapper
<Wrongway> alrighty, here goes nothing
<Wrongway> ty
<ejer> np
<ejer> I'll be here, just say my name to get my attention
<Wrongway> there's a pause in the action as I run out to my work for a few minutes
<Wrongway> but it's not looking good
<Wrongway> I'm disliking gaim for irc... what's the standard for ubuntu? (I loved mIRC for windows)
<tonyyarusso> Wrongway: xchat is way nicer (universe)
<Wrongway> all the xstuff isn't like all the kstuff where you need a special desktop environment to be able to use it, right?
<tonyyarusso> Nope
<tonyyarusso> !info xchat
<ubotu> xchat: IRC client for X similar to AmIRC. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.6.6-0ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 275 kB, installed size 760 kB
<Wrongway> got it. kstuff bad for me, xstuff ok
<Wrongway> cool, ty
<Wrongway> and I'm starting to get the feeling that packages are easy(easier) to install with the package manager, and anything I find online that I want to install is a royal pain in the ash
<tonyyarusso> Pretty much
<tonyyarusso> There are 20,000 packages in the repos, so it's pretty rare you'd need to do it manually
<Wrongway> one thing I've looked for is a scrobbler, but the 4 I've found are for specific players, not for whatever's playing
<tonyyarusso> What on earth is a scrobbler?
<ejer> you will not find a general scrobble
<ejer> scrobbler
<Wrongway> btw, what's the equivalent of winamp for linux?
<ejer> not that I have seen anyways
<ejer> beep-media-player
<ejer> clone
<Wrongway> ok. there's a scrobbler for beep I saw
<ejer> there is one for any program you choose pretty much
<ejer> you may want to try amarok
<ejer> it is very powerful and pretty
<ejer> especially if you listen to last.fm streams
<Wrongway> tonyyarusso: www.last.fm I've just started to get interested in scrobbling actually
<ejer> tonyyarusso: a scrobbler sends the song you are listening to to last.fm
<ejer> hehe
<tonyyarusso> Wrongway: Oh, btw for the kstuff you don't actually need the KDE desktp environment, just a couple of libraries.
<tonyyarusso> Ah, okay
<tonyyarusso> I just started with last.fm, but didn't know the term
<Wrongway> lol
<ejer> Wrongway: are you member of the linux and canada groups?\
<Wrongway> cool. there were a few kgames I was missing out on (backgammon)
<Wrongway> nope
<Wrongway> I'm a member of the throw-me-a-lifering-please! group
<tonyyarusso> hehe
<Wrongway> this is my first week with ubuntu
<ejer> nice
<ejer> you will get by
<Wrongway> some features are cool, some I'd like to upuntu
<ejer> everything can be changed
<ejer> eventually
<lophyte> hey folks
<ejer> which is both a strength and a problem at times
<Wrongway> exactly
<tonyyarusso> hey lophyte
<ejer> hi lophyte
<lophyte> so... I got my gf to consider Linux again
<tonyyarusso> yay
<tonyyarusso> How's it going so far?
<tonyyarusso> What'd you try?
<ejer> you da man
<lophyte> she argued that its not simple to install stuff
<lophyte> and I argued that it is, I just need to show her
<ejer> easier than on windows anyways
* Wrongway will take lophyte's gf's side
<tonyyarusso> hehe, case in point, Gobby
<tonyyarusso> Wait, you have to install Gtk first
<lophyte> she was trying to download shockwave by going to Adobe's website and downloading it
<tonyyarusso> Oh, and then Gtkmm
<tonyyarusso> THEN gobby
<ejer> I mean, everything you could want is in a list, you click install and done
<tonyyarusso> Oh, you have Gtk already for gaim and they conflict? crud :P
<ejer> on windows you have to go searching around the web, download the right file, etc etc
* tonyyarusso hugs apt-get install gobby
<ejer> the difficulty with new users is knowing WHAT to install
<ejer> to do x
<lophyte> yeah.. but you can search by task, not just package name
<lophyte> ie. you can search for "desktop publishing"
<lophyte> instead of just "scribus"
<ejer> yes, but like Wrongway wants, to have RW on ntfs
<ejer> what is he going to even look for?
<Wrongway> yupyup
<lophyte> ntfs? :P
<ejer> and plus it is not in dapper's repo
<ejer> does he necessarily know it is ntfs?
<lophyte> ah, bummer
<lophyte> ntfs-ng3 is in edgy's depos
<ejer> oh I know :)
<ejer> but this is the diff with newer users
<lophyte> indeed
<lophyte> well ntfs-g3 is in feisty's default install, isn't it?
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: -3g you mean?
<lophyte> er
<lophyte> yeah
<ejer> yes
<lophyte> whatever.. hehe
<tonyyarusso> lophyte: Not yet at least.
<ejer> but LTS is a draw to users
<lophyte> agreed
<ejer> they want the stability, but need the cutting edge features
<lophyte> I don't recommend Edgy to new users
<ejer> I left the office I support on dapper
<ejer> Wrongway: http://www.last.fm/user/bennerstul/groups/
<Wrongway> ty
<Wrongway> I don't actually have anything recorded on my account yet, but my username is soberrover
<Wrongway> there's gonna be a lot of canadian stuff on it
<Wrongway> BNL, crashtest dummies, spirit of the west, great big sea, buddy wasisname, stompin tom, bif naked
<ejer> sent you a friend request
<ejer> hehe I am playing podcasts that are getting scrobbled on the mac
<ejer> wonder if I can delete those
<Wrongway> lol. none of which are on the top10 artist list for the canadian scrobblers group
<ejer> good
<Wrongway> added
<tonyyarusso> Wrongway: great big sea eh? I've heard of them
<Wrongway> after I spend a week scrobbling I'm gonna post a note on my LJ to get my friends on it
<ejer> good stuff
<Wrongway> yup
<ejer> you like bela?
<Wrongway> I work at a gas station :P
<ejer> fleck
<ejer> you seem to like the bluegrassy stuff
<Wrongway> one of the few gas stations on the west coast that you can expect to hear east coast music (when I'm working)
<Wrongway> never heard of bela
<Wrongway> I like canadian stuff. better lyrics
<lophyte> ryanakca: is your GPG key on the ubuntu keyservers? I can't find it..
<ryanakca> lophyte: yeah
<Wrongway> I don't like country, but I like stompin tom
<Wrongway> y'know?
<ryanakca> E95EDDC9
<ryanakca> http://launchpad.net/~ryanakca
<lophyte> odd..
<lophyte> I search for "Ryan" and nothing comes up
<ejer> wget is giving me Read error (Connection timed out) in headers.
<lophyte> got it
<ejer> is that the normal timeout message
<ejer> I don't remember seeing 'in headers'
<Wrongway> and what's the best for using an ipod?
<Wrongway> I don't know of an equivalent for windows, cuz itunes pissed me off
<ejer> amarok is good for that
<Wrongway> apple programmers have their head up their ash... well, at least when they try and program for windows users
<Wrongway> ok
<ejer> Wrongway: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Linux_software_equivalent_to_Windows_software
<Wrongway> ooh, nice
<ejer> there are a bunch of lists like that
<Wrongway> right on
<ryanakca> amarok is good :)
<ejer> that one looks pretty up to date
<ejer> amarok is best
<ejer> it can actually catalog collections
<ejer> but it still crashes on me
<Wrongway> lol
<Wrongway> is gabber any good compared to gaim?
<Wrongway> I use gtalk which needs a jabber client
<ejer> Wrongway: http://www.linuxeq.com/
<ejer> Wrongway: use gaim, it has jabber builtin
<ejer> so you can use gtalk
<ejer> plus you can use IRC, msn, aol whatever
<ejer> http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?answer=24073
<Wrongway> nice. bookmarking those pages
<Wrongway> yeah, I started with gaim, and I've moved my msn to amsn and gonna move my irc to xchat
<ryanakca> kopete is good for IM as well
<ejer> I like gaim because I use the portable one in windows as well
<ejer> but kopete is good, and is more shiny
<ryanakca> konversation for IRC... KMail for mail/rss/news/calendar... kgpg for gpg... amarok for music... konqueror for file browsing... system settings for system settings... you're set :)
<ryanakca> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop :D
<ejer> in other words, install kubuntu-desktop :)
<ejer> ha
<tonyyarusso> nah, gnome's nice
<ejer> Wrongway: you should try KDE, it is possibly going to be more familiar
<tonyyarusso> Gaim, Thunderbird, Seahorse, Rhythmbox, Firefox, gnome-control-center would be the equivalents to all of those.
<ejer> I still switch all the time
<Wrongway> I've had no success with rhythmbox, which was the default player
<tonyyarusso> how so?
<Wrongway> couldn't play anything without plugins
<ejer> banshee is cool
<Wrongway> so I'm using vlc for now
<ejer> or was last time I tried it, but amarok is the way
<tonyyarusso> Well, you need codecs is you have non-free formats of course
<ejer> Wrongway: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
<ejer> that will let you play anything
<ryanakca> K3B is really nice too...
<tonyyarusso> I'll give you that one.
<ejer> yep I use k3b in both desktops
<Wrongway> yeah. I found vlc when I tried playing dvds in windows
<ejer> Wrongway: Ensure the relevant repositories are enabled. Click System -> Administration -> Synaptic Package Manager -> Settings -> Repositories and then click Add. Check the Community maintained (Universe)' and Non-free (Multiverse) boxes. When you close the window, click Reload
<ejer> sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extracodecs ogle ogle-gui
<ejer> I love the names of the gstreamer plugins
<tonyyarusso> gstreamer0.10-omgwhycan'tyoujustbefree-proprietartyhoodlums-grrrrr
<ejer> hehe
<Wrongway> reloading now
<ejer> proprietarty - I like that
<Wrongway> so now... what's the purpose of all the sudo apt-get bs ?
* ejer goes to register proprietarty.com
<tonyyarusso> oops
<ejer> Wrongway: go to Applications>terminal
<ryanakca> lol
<Wrongway> a little too tarty for me :p
<ejer> copy what I pasted and SHIFT-INSERT to paste it into the terminal
<Wrongway> yup, ik
<ejer> or right click and paste
<Wrongway> just wondering what the purpose/end result is
<ejer> to install all the codecs you need to watch/listen to any format in all programs
<Wrongway> good enough for me
<ejer> read the description on the page
<ejer> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
<ejer> tells all the secrets
<Wrongway> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)
<Wrongway> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
<ejer> close synaptic
<Wrongway> gotcha
<ejer> or the add/remove programs window
<Wrongway> there we go, ty for that
<Wrongway> (30%)
<ejer> if you want to be able to play weird asf and wmv files you actually have to do this too https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/WindowsCodecs
<Wrongway> yup, gonna need that
<ejer> but very possible you will not need it
<ejer> but it is easy to do
<Wrongway> what's been done might have taken care of it?
<ejer> no
<Wrongway> ok, nm. then I will need it
<ejer> but it can handle 'normal' wmvs
<ejer> as far as I know
<ejer> but just do it anyways, 2 more steps
<Wrongway> well... who knows what my friends will send me over msn
<ejer> exact
<ejer> for playing videos there are many choices of client, but VLC is a good choice
<Wrongway> can't remember what I preferred for that. I think it was wmp so I could keep winamp playing music without reloading my playlist
<Wrongway> oh, that's another thing... I hope either amarok or beep has global hotkeys, cuz I grew accustomed to those in winamp
<ejer> hotkeys?
<ejer> sure
<ejer> windows-b to skip to next song
<ejer> amarok is far more advanced than any media player I have seen for windows
<Wrongway> cool
<ejer> http://amarok.kde.org/
<Wrongway> those useless web buttons on the top of some keyboards (back, forward, stop, mail, etc) were what I used for winamp
<ejer> they have a non-drm music store(!)
<ejer> oh that
<ejer> yes you can do it
<ejer> I never bother
<ejer> I forget the name of the app that will do it
<ejer> lets you program any keyboard button
<Wrongway> I've got a bunch of fred penner and fraggle rock songs I skip through often :p
<ejer> long time I since I heard fred penner
<Wrongway> looking back on his show... I think he had a wee bit of an effect on me :P
<ejer> check this out http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Scripts
<ejer> all the plugins you can use in amarok
<Wrongway> ty
<Wrongway> one thing I don't like about ubuntu is the folder structure
<Wrongway> everything is everywhere, like in my room
<Wrongway> in windows, all the junk was in C:/Windows
<Wrongway> programs in C:/Program Files
<ejer> still is like that, you just need to know the way linux does it
<ejer> for instance, where was the settings for you programs kept in windows?
<ejer> your
<ejer> god knows is the correct answer :)
<Wrongway> lol
<ejer> in linux, they are all under /home/yourname
<ejer> if you back that up, you have all your settings and desktop and stuff backed up
<Wrongway> C:/document&setting/yourname (same diff :P)
<ejer> basically you will never need to go looking outside this folder
<ejer> registry entries?
<Wrongway> all that stuff was in regedit
<ejer> indeed
<Wrongway> start>run>regedit
<ejer> so to back up say your MS Office profile?
<ejer> it gets tricky
<Wrongway> I'm one of those brainless fools who backs up nothing
<ejer> anyways, not really saying one is better, this is how linux does it
<ejer> /usr/bin is where most programs are, like 'Program Files"
<ejer> /bin is sort of like system32
<Wrongway> gotta remember that
<Wrongway> I was trying to open with a specific program, and clicked the browse button
<Wrongway> didn't have a clue where to look
<Wrongway> couldn't find it
<ejer> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-tutorials-howtos-reference-material/5022-linux-directory-structure-overview.html
<Wrongway> and forgot what I was looking for
<ejer> the terminal is your friend
<Wrongway> by now :P
<ejer> applications>accessories>terminal
* Wrongway backs away from the terminal slowly
<ejer> you start typing the name of the program, and hit TAB
<ejer> it will autocomplete
<ejer> also, you can do this quickly with ALT-F2
<ejer> you can run any program on the system with this
<Wrongway> I never did get much of a handle on the Fbuttons. alt-F4 I know. and F5 for refresh
<ejer> I think that alt code is gnome specific
<ejer> it is just a handy shortcut
<Wrongway> ok
<ejer> hmm no, it works in kde
<Wrongway> I love the workspace feature though. throwing programs around to get to later and clear up clutter
<ejer> yes, it is a big draw
<ejer> although windows has had something like it... it just doesn't work too well
<Wrongway> does that ever get dangerous though? bite off more than your ram can chew?
<ejer> ubuntu is pretty stable
<Wrongway> :p
<ejer> if anything stuff will start to slow down
<Wrongway> I've had a few system freezes
<ejer> and you will use that as a warning to go buy more ram :)
<Wrongway> I'm thinking of getting more ram
<ejer> you know ctrl-alt-backspace? DON'T do this now!
<Wrongway> I've got one stick of 256 which must have a bad sector, cuz it only counts as 192
<ejer> ya that suckz
<ejer> get at least 512
<Wrongway> had to borrow a stick of my roommate's ram to run the live cd to install this
<ejer> if your system is frozen, ctrl-alt-backspace will restart graphics and go back to login screen
<Wrongway> I think I'm gonna get an additional 512 :P
<ejer> check if your stick is bad
<ejer> if it is toss it
<ejer> if you hit esc while you boot up, it gives you an option for a memory test
<Wrongway> backspace and not delete? (windows used delete)
<ejer> yes
<ejer> it does not reboot the computer
<ejer> just resets the graphics system
<Wrongway> nice
<ejer> very handy
<Wrongway> I've had to kill the screensaver cuz everytime I came home everything would be frozen due to it
<ejer> ctrl-alt-del restarts, but only when graphics is not running
<ejer> screensaver = lots of ram
<ejer> 256 is kind of minimum for ubuntu I would say
<Wrongway> more ram it will be
<ejer> for a decent experience
<Wrongway> good thing I played that pulltab yesterday
<ejer> i use 2G
<Wrongway> was at a staff party. one guy spent $20 and got nothing. I played one 50c ticket and won $50
<ejer> hehe
<Wrongway> another girl played a lot though, she won $400
<ejer> I am installing gentoo on a vps, they must hate me :)
<Wrongway> vps?
<ejer> virtual private server
<Wrongway> ok
<ejer> it is like a hosting account
<ejer> but you get root
<ejer> meaning you can do anything
<ejer> install stuff etc
<ejer> and it is a big nasty powerful machine :)
<Wrongway> lol
<Wrongway> yup, amarok isn't recognizing the useless browsing buttons
<ejer> no it won't by default
<ejer> you have to use a script
<Wrongway> and now the windows button is just an extra control or alt button basically, eh
<ejer> yes
<ejer> but it is all configurable
<ejer> nice screenshots of amarok http://www.last.fm/group/Amarok+Users/forum/18538/_/178145/3
<Wrongway> cool
<Wrongway> I like setting settings, but idk if I'll consider the terminal my friend
<Wrongway> I never considered the dos-prompt my friend
<Wrongway> figured out a wee bit of it
<ejer> ya you don't really need it
<ejer> I am old skool
<Wrongway> lol
<ejer> linux has progressed a lot
<Wrongway> that's good that linux is getting away from it
<Wrongway> windows didn't really catch on huge till dos became largely useless
<ejer> but you will need to read a fair bit to do all these 'tweaky' things
<Wrongway> before that, it was the mac classic
<ejer> yes
<ejer> the beauty is, if things go very wrong, you can do anything from the terminal you need
<ejer> and also you can run remote systems very easily
<ejer> but it is a tool, just like any gui tool
<ejer> and gnome has put plenty of effort into the gui
<Wrongway> yay for gui's

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