| <LordLinux_RD> elkbuntu: hello | |
| *** Bella is now known as C3s4r | |
| <elkbuntu> LordLinux_RD, aha | |
| * elkbuntu pokes LordLinux_RD repeatedly. lets stop this wild goose chase :Þ | |
| <LordLinux_RD> elkbuntu: i need to talk with you about , locoteam for dominican republic republicaubuntu.org.do/foro | |
| <elkbuntu> LordLinux_RD, what about it would you like to discuss? | |
| <LordLinux_RD> elkbuntu: you remember Lisander taveras ? | |
| <elkbuntu> yes, i do | |
| <LordLinux_RD> ok | |
| <LordLinux_RD> elkbuntu: ok | |
| <LordLinux_RD> pleease go to ubuntu-do irc channels | |
| <elkbuntu> LordLinux_RD, i am already there | |
| <elkbuntu> howdy Rinchen, effie_jayx | |
| <effie_jayx> elkbuntu, howdy lady :D | |
| <Rinchen> Howdy elkbuntu | |
| <effie_jayx> Rinchen, here :D | |
| <effie_jayx> ok | |
| <effie_jayx> I was talking to elkbuntu | |
| <effie_jayx> and I got them to change their nameç | |
| <Rinchen> Excellent. elkbuntu is here as well. | |
| <effie_jayx> she's out to lunch | |
| <effie_jayx> but we have discussed about it | |
| <Rinchen> I wonder if we were both talking about the same latin american team | |
| <effie_jayx> the Dominican Republic one? | |
| <Rinchen> Yes | |
| <effie_jayx> ok | |
| <effie_jayx> they have been around trying to get organized | |
| <Rinchen> apparently Venezuala is also been talking to Mel | |
| <effie_jayx> yes | |
| <effie_jayx> me ... | |
| <effie_jayx> :S | |
| <Rinchen> I used to be the Latin American competency seg rep for IBM so I know the areas a bit more than the average person. | |
| <Rinchen> My Spanish is still bad though :-) | |
| <effie_jayx> Rinchen, great | |
| <effie_jayx> but is it worth a bit at least? | |
| <effie_jayx> ok | |
| <effie_jayx> well they have been trying to set up the foundations of the team | |
| <Rinchen> Yeah, both countries would be perfrect | |
| <Rinchen> perfect even | |
| <effie_jayx> the venezuela team is moving forward to get integrated into this comunity | |
| <effie_jayx> the world community... | |
| <Rinchen> fantastic | |
| <effie_jayx> we were a bit isolated | |
| <effie_jayx> working through the recourses of a LUG | |
| <effie_jayx> now ... the dominican republic people that want to get organized | |
| <Rinchen> yeah, you might also have a chat with Chile. They seem to be off to a great start. | |
| <effie_jayx> made a post on our site | |
| <effie_jayx> about 3 months ago | |
| <effie_jayx> stating that they wanted to get everyone involved | |
| <effie_jayx> but they didn't know about loCo's | |
| <elkbuntu> hello P3L|C4N0 :) | |
| <Rinchen> Mexico is also doing well... | |
| <P3L|C4N0> hi elkbuntu | |
| <elkbuntu> P3L|C4N0, ubuntu-es seems to have died along with your connection | |
| <effie_jayx> and they registered domains and stuff without following the policies | |
| <Rinchen> Dom Rep is so small in general that I have a suspicion that it might be hard for them to get a solid base, but the Dom Rep government is very open to ways to keep costs down so they might be able to secure some help there | |
| <Burgundavia> Rinchen: you in the dominican republic? | |
| <effie_jayx> I don't have much on their cause | |
| <Rinchen> in? no, still in Colorado at the moment with a light snow | |
| <Burgundavia> ah | |
| <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, however, Rinchen knows something about everything, or nearly so | |
| <effie_jayx> but I have suggested that his members need to start regitering on launhpad | |
| <Burgundavia> right | |
| <effie_jayx> and there we will see how many they are | |
| <Rinchen> Yeah, about the only advantage to being an old man :-D | |
| <Rinchen> effie_jayx, that's a good start. A current wiki page would also be helpful | |
| <Rinchen> The wiki can be in spanish too | |
| <elkbuntu> LordLinux_RD, if you're around, would you like to partake in this conversation? | |
| * Rinchen still doesn't know the whereabouts of one Jorge however. | |
| <elkbuntu> Rinchen, he's still keeping his distance :( | |
| <nixternal> yo yo yo | |
| <nixternal> hola, coma esta? | |
| <Rinchen> Yeah but as my post on Og's blog indicates, I know he'll be back around but in a different capacity | |
| <effie_jayx> nixternal, de pinga brother,... pero se habla ingles | |
| <effie_jayx> :D | |
| <nixternal> ahhh | |
| <nixternal> hahaha | |
| <nixternal> come se dice pinga en engles? | |
| <nixternal> :) | |
| * elkbuntu curses her feeble monolingual mind :( | |
| <effie_jayx> nixternal, de pinga means .... COOL in my country.. it is colloquialism | |
| <nixternal> oh ok | |
| <nixternal> i know it means something different in mexico :) | |
| <effie_jayx> I imagine... like .... pasa palos ... ;) | |
| <effie_jayx> elkbuntu, I can't reach him | |
| <elkbuntu> effie_jayx, LordLinux_RD? dont worry | |
| <effie_jayx> ok | |
| <effie_jayx> I'll tell him to get started with a wiki page | |
| <effie_jayx> :D | |
| <effie_jayx> and see | |
| <effie_jayx> how he and the dominicans measure | |
| <effie_jayx> :D | |
| <elkbuntu> their forums already have like 25 people registered, so there may be potential | |
| <elkbuntu> http://republicaubuntu.org.do/foro/ | |
| <effie_jayx> right | |
| <effie_jayx> they have been around for 3 months | |
| <elkbuntu> effie_jayx, is loco feminine or masculine? | |
| <effie_jayx> femenine | |
| <effie_jayx> in spanis | |
| * elkbuntu sticks her tongue out at nixternal | |
| <nixternal> whoa | |
| <effie_jayx> LoCo local community | |
| <nixternal> ahh | |
| <nixternal> ok | |
| <effie_jayx> la comunidad | |
| <effie_jayx> la comunidad local | |
| <effie_jayx> Local Comunity | |
| * effie_jayx opens his EFL grammar book | |
| <elkbuntu> he had great fun figuring how to word it in his translations | |
| <effie_jayx> definite articles THE translates to el o ella depending of the sex | |
| <effie_jayx> la is for femenine | |
| <effie_jayx> la comunidad local | |
| <effie_jayx> but | |
| <effie_jayx> LoCo teams.... Equipos LoCo is masculine | |
| <effie_jayx> :D | |
| <elkbuntu> gyah... almost as bad as english | |
| <effie_jayx> gyah? | |
| <elkbuntu> gutteral sound of giving up | |
| <elkbuntu> like gah | |
| <effie_jayx> elkbuntu, but at least we have some femenine articles... | |
| <effie_jayx> ok... so to wrapp up... a mailing list and a wiki for the dominican republic team to get started | |
| <effie_jayx> great... | |
| <effie_jayx> :D | |
| <elkbuntu> effie_jayx, thanks for helping with .do. i couldnt figure what he was saying they had and did not have | |
| <effie_jayx> elkbuntu, no biggie lady... just giving back what once I asked... full circle ;) | |
| <elkbuntu> :) | |
| <markvandenborre> jono, I am thinking about how to get our locoteam membership organised more formally | |
| <markvandenborre> I'm thinking right now in the direction of more or less mimicking the ubuntu membership process | |
| <markvandenborre> but on a local level of course | |
| <markvandenborre> jono, any opinions, hints to share? | |
| <markvandenborre> anyone else equally welcome to comment of course | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, pray tell.. why does it need such stringency? | |
| <markvandenborre> because we are growing | |
| <Fujitsu> markvandenborre, how big are you at the moment? | |
| <Fujitsu> And why do you want to restrict membership? | |
| <markvandenborre> I don't want to restrict it | |
| <markvandenborre> I just want to make membership reflect dedication | |
| <markvandenborre> since otherwise you have to take into account a lot of "lurkers" | |
| <markvandenborre> when making decisions | |
| <markvandenborre> (hope I'm using the right terminology here) | |
| <markvandenborre> it's fine for passive observers to just be there | |
| <markvandenborre> but it should be clear that it's the people who actually do the work have certain decision making power | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: that would be a bad idea, imho | |
| <jono> just let people join up naturally - the natural contributors will appear normally | |
| <markvandenborre> they have | |
| <markvandenborre> they are streaming in | |
| <jono> there is no point having more bureaucracy than is needed | |
| <elkbuntu> imho locos should be freeform and casual, or they lose the attraction and accessibility | |
| <markvandenborre> I'm not saying super stringent | |
| <markvandenborre> I'm saying that there are right now about 10-15 people | |
| <Fujitsu> 10-15 != streaming in, IMO | |
| <markvandenborre> who have dedicated a lot of work | |
| <Fujitsu> Ah. | |
| <markvandenborre> and about 200 lurkers | |
| <elkbuntu> the whole having to apply will turn alot of people off | |
| <elkbuntu> who just want to be able to do stuff when they can, and not be any less worthy just because they cant | |
| <markvandenborre> hey, _everyone_ can be a part of it | |
| <markvandenborre> I'm looking into ways of making people who are dedicated | |
| <markvandenborre> more room | |
| <markvandenborre> I'm not saying I (or the core group) should decide | |
| <markvandenborre> it's also a question of our group growing quite fast, | |
| <markvandenborre> and with that a growing need for people who can actually represent us | |
| <markvandenborre> as a team that stands for quality | |
| <markvandenborre> and enthousiasm | |
| <markvandenborre> it's also about assuring some kind of continuity (right word?) | |
| <elkbuntu> we have not really had any problem | |
| <markvandenborre> I feel rather uncomfortable about having about 30 "team members" | |
| <markvandenborre> that I haven't seen make any contribution ever | |
| <elkbuntu> many people make invisible contributions | |
| <markvandenborre> and another 10-15 who even aren't "team members", but that _have_ | |
| <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, that's something I want to change | |
| <markvandenborre> (people making invisible contributions) | |
| <elkbuntu> you want to force people to be visible? | |
| <elkbuntu> they're obviously invisible because they prefer to be so | |
| <markvandenborre> as much as possible, yes | |
| <markvandenborre> or because they haven't done a lot | |
| <markvandenborre> for decision making, you need at least some basis | |
| <markvandenborre> ideally, it happens by consensus | |
| <markvandenborre> and most of the time, it does | |
| <elkbuntu> you're putting a fairly heavy burden of commitment onto people who are volunteers | |
| <markvandenborre> no, I'm not | |
| <markvandenborre> I'm only asking those who want to do that | |
| <markvandenborre> to become members | |
| <markvandenborre> and still welcoming the rest, of course | |
| <markvandenborre> ...in, as I said in the beginning of this discussion, something that is still growing in my mind | |
| <markvandenborre> as a proposal to other ubuntu-be.org people! | |
| <markvandenborre> it really depends a lot on where you put the bar for locoteam membership | |
| <elkbuntu> that isnt going to make the quieter ones feel as welcome. they'll feel they have to do a certain amount to mean as much. my team has alot of good avocates that i never hear a peep from. you dont want to alienate those people | |
| <elkbuntu> tbh *I* would feel alienated | |
| <markvandenborre> they would still be there | |
| <elkbuntu> local groups are supposed to be more intimate. comradery not beaucracy. thats why i started contributing to -au, because it was casual and intimate without the whole membership process | |
| <elkbuntu> you're assuming they would be | |
| <markvandenborre> hey, I realise there is a real danger there of alienating good people | |
| <Fujitsu> -au would have a whole lot less people if a membership process existed... I was there when it started, I've seen a lot of people join. | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, when -au decided to start policing on the matter of 'abiding by the CoC', mainly on keeping the channel family friendly, we almost lost a handful of people.. including good contributors | |
| <Fujitsu> Yeah... | |
| * Fujitsu hides in a corner. | |
| <elkbuntu> it totally lost atmosphere | |
| <elkbuntu> so we reduced it to allow slight swearing, and people are alot happier | |
| <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, that wasnt you that started us actually enforcing it | |
| <Fujitsu> It wasn't? | |
| <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, matthewv complained about swearing | |
| <elkbuntu> so we decided to uphold the CoC in terms of being respectful | |
| <elkbuntu> then we almost lost sicc and kamping | |
| <Fujitsu> Yeah, that would have been unpleasant. | |
| <elkbuntu> as well as a few others i cant remember now | |
| <markvandenborre> CoC is CoC, it's pretty good imho | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, it's an interpreted standard | |
| <markvandenborre> for people who want to lead by example | |
| <Fujitsu> We lost horsey and and a couple of others due to the whole going-official thing, didn't we? | |
| <Fujitsu> Or was that Sol1... | |
| <markvandenborre> Fujitsu, what do you mean by "going official"? | |
| <Fujitsu> markvandenborre, a number of our members decided that we should become an official not-for-profit organisation | |
| <markvandenborre> ahh... | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: there is no point setting legislation when it is not needed - a certain amount of natural-ness needs to be in teams | |
| <markvandenborre> for clarity: I am _not_ trying to do that here, even if that might change at some time in the future | |
| <elkbuntu> thankfully we never did.. i'd hate to be managing all the paperwork :| | |
| <jono> yeah | |
| <jono> people don't like rules, and legislation is *never* fun | |
| <markvandenborre> absolutely agree on this "no legislation without an identifiable need" | |
| <jono> :) | |
| <jono> right, lunch for me | |
| <markvandenborre> but I feel like there is an identifiable need | |
| <jono> biab | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, i really honestly truely believe you're concocting a need though | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: there is no need | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: what need is there? | |
| <markvandenborre> not legislation | |
| <jono> why not just let people join of their own volition and make themselves known as contributors? | |
| <markvandenborre> jono, don't want to keep you from going to have food, but... | |
| <jono> :) | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, you know there's no way to do that | |
| * elkbuntu hides | |
| <jono> heh | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: shoot :) | |
| <markvandenborre> it's difficult for me to formulate, and this discussion forces me to do so, which is a really good thing | |
| <markvandenborre> much of it is about creating an atmosphere of dedication and enthousiasm | |
| <markvandenborre> where making decisions and going forward is actually encouraged; cutting the blah... | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: I know what you mean, but creating an atmosphere of dedication and enthusiasm is not achieved by creating more rules and processes - the way we create that atmosphere is through meritocracy and peer review, like every other open source project | |
| <markvandenborre> I'll try to give you an example: | |
| <jono> there is *no* way to encourage dedication and enthusiasm with processes - it is about having good people inspiring others | |
| <markvandenborre> for our next meeting | |
| <markvandenborre> on 2007/01/06 | |
| <markvandenborre> I invited everyone on the mailing list to my place | |
| <jono> to your place? | |
| <markvandenborre> (or a nearby school if we are too many) | |
| <markvandenborre> yes, why? | |
| <markvandenborre> sorry, jono, I should probably get my thoughts arranged a bit more before I go on | |
| <markvandenborre> lots of other things going on here too, making it difficult to concentrate on this discussion | |
| <markvandenborre> please have dinner first... will try to summarise things a bit, so I don't take too much of your time | |
| <markvandenborre> but it mostly evolves around easier and faster decision making in a smaller circle that is open to anyone who has earned the respect of the wider circle through hard work | |
| <markvandenborre> ouch, what a sentence | |
| <jono> heh | |
| <jono> ok, good stuff | |
| <jono> gonna grab food | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, would you believe... the -au team virtually disintegrated at one stage? | |
| <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, which is why I'm trying to be so careful about making up a sensible proposal for a functional layer above the "everyone who has ever touched Ubuntu in Belgium" level | |
| <poningru> ok so I had another idea for marketing and loco to work together | |
| <poningru> wanted to run this by you guys | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, creating elitism doesnt help. trust me on this. | |
| <poningru> stemmed from the classroom stuff people did | |
| <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, that's something I _really_ want to avoid | |
| <Fujitsu> markvandenborre, but that's what you just proposed. | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, that's all that is going to happen, when you start talking membership. it's even perceived amongst the ubuntu community at large | |
| <poningru> basically developing some curriculum which allows anyone to teach classes for noob users | |
| <elkbuntu> poningru, have you spoken with the NUN? | |
| <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, Fujitsu, I'm grateful about you listening to my nagging, because it inspires me to think | |
| <elkbuntu> markvandenborre, we're just glad you listen to our reasoning | |
| <markvandenborre> heh | |
| <poningru> elkbuntu: nun? | |
| <markvandenborre> new user network | |
| <elkbuntu> #ubuntu-nun iirc | |
| <poningru> ah | |
| <elkbuntu> they're who run -classroom | |
| <elkbuntu> poningru, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserNetwork | |
| <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, btw, we did a computer fair booth both sunday 10/12 and 17/12 | |
| <markvandenborre> unfortunately, no pcis | |
| <markvandenborre> pics | |
| <elkbuntu> aww | |
| <markvandenborre> but we do have one from a previous one | |
| <elkbuntu> where you were singing and playing a guitar thing? | |
| <markvandenborre> yup | |
| <markvandenborre> well, we have a series of that fair | |
| <markvandenborre> and something I wrote about that fair because jono asked for it | |
| <markvandenborre> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhqff3m7_6c37mxf | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: seriously, I would *not* recommend what you are suggesting, it will create a divisive barrier and elitism | |
| <jono> just let the good contributors naturally bubble to the surface | |
| <jono> every other project and team has done that and it works well | |
| <markvandenborre> jono, contrary to the locoteam newsletters, this time I'm not sure yet some kind of locoteam membership would be a good decision | |
| <jono> exactly :) | |
| <markvandenborre> so I'm being really careful, even about preparing a proposal | |
| <markvandenborre> if anything, this discussion has made me realise that this is a much more sensitive thing than I was aware of | |
| <markvandenborre> my disdain (correct word) for forced egalitarism, and my appreciation for elite-by-merit made me underestimate that | |
| <markvandenborre> sorry, meant (correct word?) | |
| <markvandenborre> btw, elkbuntu , hope you can do something with the fairs report, even if it's over a month old | |
| <elkbuntu> did it get on fridge back then? | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: I think a wise man is someone who can change their views based on commentary from their community peers | |
| <markvandenborre> woohoo, jono is calling me a wise man, I think ;) | |
| <elkbuntu> jono, and an honorable man is one who can admit where they are wrong | |
| <jono> indeed | |
| <elkbuntu> we know you are both wise and honorable, mark :) | |
| <jono> :) | |
| <jono> and belgian | |
| <jono> what more could you want? :P | |
| <markvandenborre> heheh | |
| <ulinskie> =) sounds yummy | |
| <elkbuntu> jono, bringer of belgian chocolate would be a good thing | |
| <markvandenborre> hey, not sure if I will be able to fiddle with my lesson schedule for the next uds | |
| <markvandenborre> but if I can, there will be Belgian chocolate, and beer | |
| <jono> would indeed :) | |
| <jono> markvandenborre: sounds like a plan! :) | |
| <poningru> elkbuntu: thanks | |
| <poningru> :) | |
| <elkbuntu> poningru, no problem | |
| <markvandenborre> even with the shaken brain after the accident and being immensely tired at uds-mtv, I really enjoyed it | |
| <elkbuntu> same | |
| <elkbuntu> was an awesome week | |
| <elkbuntu> but unless some miracle occurs, im not likely to be at the next :( | |
| *** jikanter_ is now known as jikanter | |
| *** mark_ is now known as markvandenborre | |
| <markvandenborre> elkbuntu, in a way, the membership I was thinking of was kind of a very rudimentary, basic form of locoteam karma | |
| <markvandenborre> technology affords us new and better ways than classic "membership" to steer a group | |
| <markvandenborre> think measuring output, and basing the quantity of karma to be distributed upon that | |
| * MagicFab is away: ...busy... | |
| * MagicFab is away: on the phone | |
| * elkbuntu twitches at the away msgs | |
| <Rinchen> Anyone in the USA who is on and needs some Edgy CD's, please let me know. I have a sleeve left. | |
| <Rinchen> I was saving them for...Nebraska I think it was but nobody has contacted me. | |
| <MagicFab> Rinchen, I am in the 52nd US state if that counts (Canada) :) | |
| <Rinchen> I'm going to do some marketing here with them if nobody needs them. | |
| <Rinchen> Well, not really MagicFab. Montreal ceded from the union. | |
| <Rinchen> :-) | |
| <MagicFab> :P | |
| <Rinchen> but if you guys need some and can't get them from Simon Law (in Montreal) then I can see what the cost would be to ship these up with customs. | |
| <Rinchen> I don't have any Toronto/Markham trips planned so I can't just bring them with | |
| <MagicFab> In fact I work for the Canonical office in Montreal and even here can't get any | |
| <Rinchen> lol | |
| <Rinchen> That's just wrong | |
| <MagicFab> I would use some for the QC team, some other to send to Colombia | |
| <MagicFab> all the trouble to get hired and only now do i find out :) | |
| <Rinchen> Burgwork comes down to Colorado often... I can try to rendezvous with him and have him bring some up. | |
| <MagicFab> np | |
| <MagicFab> unless you have more than 10, customs aren't a problem. I'd pay for COD if required. | |
| <Rinchen> I was sent something ridiculous like 350. | |
| <Rinchen> We've given out about 100 - 200 and setup distro points. I personally held some extras back for neighboring states but they don't appear to want them | |
| <Rinchen> Btw, to everyone who's listening, we found a great way for activism | |
| <Rinchen> We've been going to coffee shops to have mini meetings and whenever we see someone using a computer we extol the greatness of The Ubuntu and hand them a CD :-) | |
| <Rinchen> Converted a few people like that since Edgy was released. | |
| <Rinchen> ch/activism/awareness |