*** merlin-linux is now known as Xmas_Penguin

<zakaria> hi everybody!

<zakaria> i have a problem

<zakaria> how can i choose mplayer as default video player

<zakaria> on firefox

<zakaria> ?

<zakaria> thank you

*** purserj_ is now known as purserj

<_greenie> woot flintoff is out :D

<siccness> Yup

<siccness> The Ashes are ours :D

<_greenie> only if we get pieterson out

<_greenie> he is the only chance england have :P

<siccness> He's been the only chance England has had throughout the series.

<siccness> Pieterson is easily their best performer.

<ae0000> whats the score?

<siccness> What the hell happened then?

<siccness> Jones is out

<siccness> :D

<ae0000> score?

<siccness> hang on

<siccness> You just missed the weirdest dismisall haha

<siccness> they appealed for LBW, Jones wasnt pay attention and had left his crease, ponting ran him out

<_greenie> oh yeah

<siccness> Hahaha

<_greenie> that was unique

<_greenie> 3/336

<siccness> Aussie class :)

<_greenie> 7/336*

<_greenie> ashes here we come :D

<siccness> Yup

<_greenie> haha love warnies reaction

<_greenie> he had no idea what was happening

<siccness> OUT!

*** merlin-linux is now known as Xmas_Penguin

<siccness> ASHES are ours :D

<ThePizzaKing> I don't know, Google doesn't seem to think so. 'have we won back the ashes yet?' and pressing 'I'm feeling lucky' gives me 'Ponting: We haven't won the Ashes yet'

<siccness> Yes well we have.

<ThePizzaKing> but Google said

<ThePizzaKing> you mean Google's wrong! :O

<siccness> Google just isn't as quick as siccness

<siccness> siccness knows all before all happens. :)

<ThePizzaKing> wow

<ThePizzaKing> hmmm 'is siccness faster than you?' gives me someone's post on Ubuntu forums who quoted your post in a Speeding up Linux with BUM etc thread

<siccness> lol

<siccness> what the hell is BUM?

<ThePizzaKing> Boot Up Manager

<siccness> Ah

<ThePizzaKing> something like that

<siccness> Damn it's hot

<siccness> 24C :|

<ThePizzaKing> yeah

<siccness> 26C

<siccness> how does it go up 2degrees in 4mins :|

<cafuego> siccness: wind change

<cafuego> siccness: We often get that in melbourne (though usually in the other direction)

<siccness> Ahh good point

<cafuego> Not uncommon for the temp tod rop 15 degrees in 10 minutes

<adhoc> 32c here =(

*** Hobbsee is now known as shobbs

*** shobbs is now known as Sarah

<cafuego> adhoc: that's not _too_ bad

* Sarah waves

* Xmas_Penguin waves back

<Sarah> :)

*** Sarah is now known as Hobbsee

<AlexC> hia hoey

<cps> hello

<AlexC> hows is you being?

<cps> pretty good

<cps> you?

<AlexC> good

<AlexC> watching borat

<cps> ah, any good?

<AlexC> yes

<AlexC> VCD quality

<cps> ouch

<AlexC> its still good

<AlexC> they don't drop the camera like someone did in another movie

<cps> ha ha, that's always a plus

<AlexC> i think they have a tripod

<MatthewV> Added agenda item: *

<MatthewV> o

<MatthewV> Do we need/want a spot on ubuntuforums? This has been raised a number of times in the mailing list, so we probably need to make a decision, if only to postpone the decision -- MatthewVermeulen (MatthewV)

<siccness> hey MatthewV

<MatthewV> hi siccness

<MatthewV> my visits here seem to be less and less frequent

* Fujitsu screams. Nooo.

* Fujitsu pens a reply to that email

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, i know, but its on the mailing list AGAIN!!!

<MatthewV> obviously we need an OFFICIAL decision

<Fujitsu> Yes.

<Fujitsu> ubuntuforums.org is a BAD THING.

* MatthewV also pens a reply

<siccness> I won't be here for the meeting (the pub has requested my drinking services), but ill give my decision now?

* Fujitsu gets a stick and pokes it into people's heads.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, save it for the meeting :P

<MatthewV> siccness, go ahead

<Hobbsee> siccness: haha, nice excuse

* Fujitsu hopes elkbuntu and GrantG will be around for the meeting due to this topic.

<Hobbsee> when's the meeting?

<MatthewV> i'll try to be at the meeting.. unless i get told to SIT DOWN AND EAT!

<Hobbsee> oh right

<siccness> i think its a bad idea

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, /topic

<Hobbsee> so i read :P

* Fujitsu copies siccness' last line into vim, for quoting.

<siccness> :)

<siccness> and for another quick thing, i dont think there should be a meeting on the 1st

<Fujitsu> What does Hobbsee think of this decision?

<Fujitsu> Well, decision-to-be.

<MatthewV> siccness, add that to the agenda ;)

<siccness> agenda url again?

<MatthewV> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, i wouldnt read it, that's easy

<Hobbsee> when's 0900 UTC local time?

<Fujitsu> 8pm AEDT.

<Hobbsee> right

<Hobbsee> ie, an hour and 15 min?

* Fujitsu makes an effort to read the Science & Education subforum once or twice a week, as a lot of disasters spring up there.

<Fujitsu> But it's painful, and I take as little time as is possible.

<Hobbsee> heh

* Hobbsee doesnt

<MatthewV> sent!

* Fujitsu ensures that ubuntugeek isn't here.

* Hobbsee lets people file bugs if there are problems

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, that's the problem.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, what sort of disasters?

<Fujitsu> MatthewV, people complaining about brokenness without filing bugs... Things like {Sci,Bio}buntu appearing...

* Fujitsu curses ubuntu-uk.

<MatthewV> ah

<Fujitsu> My email is going to be moderated, isn't it...

* Fujitsu grumbles.

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: if you find anything interesting, make sure you report it

<Fujitsu> Damnit. Stupid Feisty SSH+seahorse-daemon hanger.

* Fujitsu removes it, and prepares to reboot.

<siccness> MatthewV: I'm assuming you handle draft --> final for the meeting agenda page

* MatthewV wonders if the time is ripe to upgrade feisty

<siccness> nevermind

<siccness> i just pressed preview by mistake :P

<Fujitsu> @lart MatthewV

<MatthewV> siccness, i wont... :P

<MatthewV> !lart Fujitsu

<MatthewV> no bots :(

<MatthewV> no Ubugto, no Ubotwo

<siccness> Added agenda

<Fujitsu> Brb, rebooting... Stupid Seahorse.

<siccness> lol

* MatthewV feels guilty about not spending more time on the ubuntu wiki

<MatthewV> wb Fujitsu

<Fujitsu> Hi MatthewV.

<Fujitsu> My SSH works again, yay.

<Fujitsu> Anybody here have moderation rights of the mailing list?

<Fujitsu> s/of/over/

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, i thought you did..

<Fujitsu> News to me.

<Fujitsu> The only extra rights I have are over the team website, and {mult,un}iverse.

<MatthewV> oh

<MatthewV> k

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, and you're an op in here anrent' you?

<Fujitsu> That too.

<siccness> Alright, pub time for me, have fun!

<Fujitsu> See ya, siccness.

<MatthewV> siccness, you just dont want to be at the meeting ;P

<MatthewV> bye

<Fujitsu> This meeting may get a little firey, if forum-supported (*shudder*) are there.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, all the more reason not to miss it!

<siccness> Well..

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no, then you just have to treat them very carefully

<siccness> I'd love to be at the meeting; however, as Fujitsu just said, forum-supporters, eeek :P

* Fujitsu might accidentally be saturating his upload bandwidth with a wesnoth upload or similar during the meeting :P

* Hobbsee wonders whether the forum ambassador stuff got anywhere last night

<Hobbsee> haha

<Fujitsu> Forum supporters are scary things... -cough- ubuntugeek -cough-

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, last night!?

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: doing wesnoth hey? nice

<Fujitsu> Was there a meeting?

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they were meeting again, yeah

<Fujitsu> Eek.

* Fujitsu reads it.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, what's this about your least fav forum moderator?

<Fujitsu> I read last week's logs... Quite a tantrum.

<Fujitsu> MatthewV, he founded the forums.

<Fujitsu> He is god.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, i know.. and?

<Fujitsu> He throws tantrums.

<Fujitsu> He swears at Canonical people.

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: wasnt in -meeting

<Hobbsee> ugh, great

* MatthewV shudders

<MatthewV> not a great thing

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, private?

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: was in #forum-ambassadors yeah

<Hobbsee> and partly in gobby

<Hobbsee> MatthewV: sounds like a really great thing when they're talking about having to follow teh COC

<Fujitsu> ... #forum-ambassadors is an Ubuntu channel?

<Fujitsu> What namespace pollution...

<MatthewV> ah... maybe I should read logs..

<Fujitsu> I really dislike the whole life-member of the FC idea... It sort of contradicts the LCoC.

<AlexC> lol

* MatthewV sighs... too much politics involved in F/LOSS

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nope

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh, yes

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, nope to which?

<MatthewV> if its not an argument here, there's one in debian, or somewhere in suse, or novell, or fedora, or some distro guy has quit, or...

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: @ a ubuntu channel. well, both really

<Fujitsu> Are there logs of the meeting anywhere?

<Hobbsee> no

<Hobbsee> was hardly a "meeting" i expect

<Fujitsu> s/meeting/tantrum/ ?

<MatthewV> what channel?

<lucychili> matthewv i think its an unfortunate cost of being a flexibly organised group of people there is a lot of room for debate, constructive and otherwise. freedom to participate is powerful. how we participate has an impact on others etc. i know it can be pesky but the overall impact is worthy, politics and all

<MatthewV> lucychili, yes, i agree with what you are saying, it just seems that all too often we see a disagreement dissolve into a split or something like that

<lucychili> we are organised around ideas people care about

<lucychili> there will be passion in the choices

<lucychili> at least its all out there and people can see the cogs moving

<Hobbsee> lucychili!

<MatthewV> :)

<pschulz01> Howdy all..

<MatthewV> pschulz01! HI :)

* pschulz01 waves at MatthewV

<MatthewV> :)

<MatthewV> pschulz01, you going to be here for the meeting?

<pschulz01> MatthewV: Not sure.. I have a dinner to cook. I would like to talk about Ubuntu membership tough.

<pschulz01> though

<MatthewV> hi stuart_

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, if I dont make it to the meeting, throw in a "I dont think we need it yet" vote for me ;)

<Fujitsu> Hah, OK.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, i'll try to be here, but...

<lucychili> hi Hobbsee =)

<Hobbsee> :)

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, my understanding of the whole 'life member of the FC' is whilever he adheres to the LCOC

<Fujitsu> Hm, that's not sooo bad then.

<MatthewV> FC? am i missing something?

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, forums council

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, ok thainks :)

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, im happy with it for one reason: troy isnt

<elkbuntu> s/troy/ryan/

<Fujitsu> I was thinking `Troy? What the?'

<elkbuntu> it's his surname

<Fujitsu> Yes, that's probably a good thing.

<Fujitsu> Ah, true.

<MatthewV> I feel guilty, i use windows live mail :(

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, dont

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, what? dont feel guilty, or dont use it?

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, does it do what you need without being a hassle?

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, former

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, nope, not at all.. only reason is i have a hotmail account to talk to all my friends who dont even know about the existence of alternative IM services

<MatthewV> or even know what IM is

<Fujitsu> Er, you don't need a Hotmail account to use MSNM.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, i know

<MatthewV> but I made this back when I was in yr8, and now its just a great way to keep all the spam confined to one inbox

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, i was quite unamused at his continued immature behaviour when reading the log of the CC meet

<MatthewV> 408 unread messages

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, same.

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, ahaha, you use hotmail for that too?

<Fujitsu> MatthewV, hahah.

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, Fujitsu yeah...

<MatthewV> that way i hardly ever touch that inbox.. and windows live mail does suck.. its buggy and slow

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, he added at least 45 minutes to the meeting, imho

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, think about it like this: you're *using* them

<MatthewV> :)

<elkbuntu> see.. all guilt is gone

<elkbuntu> ride MS for what they're worth, baby

<MatthewV> thanks elkbuntu you should get a job as a psychologist ;)

<elkbuntu> hehe

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, 45 minutes is nothing. The meeting was 4 or 5 hours, no?

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, for a meeting that long, 45 minutes less would have been a godsend

<Fujitsu> I guess.

<MatthewV> when was this meeting? I'm looking through the logs trying to get the gist

<Fujitsu> The 2006-12-12 CC meeting.

<rob> next meeting tonight?

<elkbuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/CC-2006-12-12

<elkbuntu> rob, yes

<rob> great, what is the agenda?

<elkbuntu> i dont know if we have an agenda or not

<rob> ah ok

<Hobbsee> rob: large amounts of doom, most likely. are you on the irc mailing list?

<Fujitsu> rob: The agenda is, at the moment, do we get a forum or not.

* Fujitsu stomps on it a lot.

<rob> own forum?

<AlexC> yeah forum

<Fujitsu> Yes.

<rob> will ubuntufourms.org give out a sub forum?

<Fujitsu> Yes.

<Fujitsu> This is a problem.

<rob> well, in that case, why not?

<Fujitsu> AARSDGJDSjflsdkjfsjfsdjfsfsdfjsdfsfsdfsdfsjafdoqhfiojfpsofjidsufsojdkjfhoaskljdasfsdkljfnsldkfjnsdfskdjfnslfs

<rob> o_O

<elkbuntu> ... what the heck?

<rob> looks like :D

<Fujitsu> rob: It's been discussed on the list quite a bit.

<Fujitsu> (that was me screaming, or similar)

<rob> ah ok, got a link to the archives?

<elkbuntu> who the heck.... brb, gotta go do tech support for parrents

<Fujitsu> lists.ubuntu.com, somewhere in the ubuntu-au archives.

<rob> apc has a copy of Xubuntu on the cover dvd next month too btw

<Fujitsu> Plus... it's the forums... Forums == evil.

<Fujitsu> rob, yup, 'tis good. It's on ubuntu.com.au.

<rob> I'm sure there are lots of forum users that might like it though, that hate irc

<rob> Ubuntu itself was on one a couple of months ago iirc

<Fujitsu> It was on September, I think.

<Fujitsu> Another communication medium (which is rather similar to a mailing list) to fragment the community isn't good.

<rob> true, do you have numbers on how many Ubuntu-au members prefer the forums vs prefer irc? (I prefer the latter)

<Fujitsu> Forums and IRC are not a valid comparison.

<Fujitsu> Forums vs. mailing list is.

<elkbuntu> ok back

<elkbuntu> guys, we've already been through this discussion on the -au list before

<rob> depends what you are trying to achieve, many people do successfully run on-line fourms only communities

<elkbuntu> we even came to the resolution to try gmane

<rob> what was the thread called?

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, that is why I screamed.

<rob> nothing in the last two months of archives is sticking out at me

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, yes, and if you read the latest emails on the list, its been raised again... which is why i put it on the agenda

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, it's been raised in the past few hours it seems

<elkbuntu> i leave the computer for 2 hours and things like this happen :|

<MatthewV> hmm

* AlexC is too high to read fast scrolling text

<rob> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2006-December/001031.html

<rob> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings

<rob> agenda btw ^ :D

<pschulz01> Testing.. please ignore.

<rob> k

* pschulz01 has his text2speech working so he can listed while cooking dinner.

<pschulz01> listen

<yama> oh god

<rob> ah nice

* Fujitsu notes a meeting is likely to be starting.

<yama> "I AM A ROBOT"

<rob> what package are you using pschulz01?

* yama works with blind people and hears tts all the time

<elkbuntu> hehe

<pschulz01> rob: festival.. with a perl script that pipes the IRC log... and make replacement with things like :-) <- smile.

<elkbuntu> we'll give it a few minutes then start at about 5 past

<rob> pschulz01: nice

* pschulz01 is making banging noises in the kicken.. please ignore.

<rob> bah brb

<Hobbsee> where are we meeting? here?

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, correct.

* Hobbsee nods

<Fujitsu> Have you not attended a meeting of us on a previous occasion?

* AlexC waits in anticipation

<elkbuntu> i dont think she has for as long as i can remember

<absoludity> my first time too :)

* MatthewV will have to go in 10-15 minutes

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, I didn't think so.

<Fujitsu> Silly Hobbsee.

<MatthewV> hi absoludity :) sit back and enjoy...

<elkbuntu> afk a min, then we'll start

<sonicGB> uh... I'm a virgin too! what's the meeting aboot?

<yama> lions and tigers and bears... oh my!

<elkbuntu> ok

<elkbuntu> we all ready?

<AlexC> a green llama has the fur of an LSD taking bear

* elkbuntu does the gavel thing and stuff to open teh meeting

* MatthewV sits back

<elkbuntu> ok, since our meeting has one point, lets get right into it.

<elkbuntu> ok, it has two points

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, i havent. they've always been when i'm working.

<elkbuntu> but i dont see siccness

<elkbuntu> Do we need/want a spot on ubuntuforums? This has been raised a number of times in the mailing list, so we probably need to make a decision, if only to postpone the decision -- MatthewVermeulen (MatthewV)

<elkbuntu> ok, for this i am an outright -1

<Fujitsu> -1

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, could you explain why?

<Fujitsu> siccness provided his -1 earlier.

<AlexC> the ubuntu-forum is good

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, i do not trust the structure that it is based around

<AlexC> nice on the eyes

<Fujitsu> AlexC, that's highly subjective, and dare I say it, wrong.

<yama> the issues, as I see it, are that some people may prefer a web forum, but this may fragment the community

<elkbuntu> AlexC, we're talking structure, not aesthetic

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, you mean the private ownership?

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, partially

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, so what else?

<AlexC> its a good forum

<elkbuntu> more about who the ownership is with and how he behaves

<Fujitsu> It sucks aesthetically as well, the Google ads are terrible.

<MatthewV> btw Fujitsu just finished reading meeting logs of that CC meeting... *gasp*

<elkbuntu> the google ads were supposed to have been removed a month ago

<AlexC> beteer than the shit ones found all over the net

<Fujitsu> MatthewV, er, yeah.

<Fujitsu> AlexC, I beg to differ.

<absoludity> Not sure what's been discussed b4, but a forum would definitely provide an easy way for newbies in au to see what goes on.

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, if you've read that log, you've seen a mild version of the behavior

<yama> MatthewV: got a link to those logs?

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, ok... does this then carry through to any forums we may host ourselves

<elkbuntu> absoludity, we'll get to 'forum or no forum' later

<pschulz01> Is there anyone here who would use them?

<hysterio> no

<elkbuntu> this discussion is currently 'this way, or not'

<Fujitsu> MatthewV, as elkbuntu says, I believe that that behaviour is more pleasant than normal.

<MatthewV> yama, there is a wiki page, but easiest to read is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-12-12.html

<Fujitsu> pschulz01, not me.

<AlexC> most forums don't even do anything

<yama> what relationship do the fora have with Canonical?

<elkbuntu> yama, canonical pays for everything, but has no control

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, ok.. i can understand totally your problem with him then, even if i can't relate that directly to the forums

<elkbuntu> by my understanding

<Fujitsu> yama, one of swearing and tantrums, as exhibited by the CC logs.

<yama> MatthewV: cheers

<hysterio> im wondering what an AU specific forum would add to what is already in the ubuntuforum

<Hobbsee> yama: there's a forum council now, which is under the COC

<MatthewV> hysterio, that basically sums up what i think

<elkbuntu> for those who are unaware, at UDS, the forums owner chucked a tantrum and swore at mark and jane

<absoludity> hysterio: good point. there's already the ubuntu-au wiki...

<MatthewV> we have no reason to add our own forums, imho...

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, it's not a fully approved council yet... Only 3 of 5 members exist.

<Hobbsee> ght

<MatthewV> can everyone who will actively use the forums please say so now!

<Hobbsee> right

<yama> if Canonical can unequivocally state that they control the fora, than I may support them

<elkbuntu> yes

<Hobbsee> no

<elkbuntu> that would change my view as well

<sonicGB> I'm not sure if I'm entitled to an opinion, being a relative ubuntu-au n00b and all, but FWIW, I wouldn't use a web based forum.

<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, the FC does not stop ryan from pulling the plug

<MatthewV> hmm... noone?

<rob> Canonical never have controlled the forums, and at this stage still will not even with its recent acceptance as an official project

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, can we stick to ONE dotpic please

<elkbuntu> topic*

<MatthewV> sonicGB, dont worry, everyone, even casual visitors can have an opinion in here

<yama> sonicGB: this is a community. You are entitled to an opinion

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, sorry..?

<sonicGB> thanks MatthewV, yama

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, this is about using ubuntuforums.org, not about using a forum as a concept anywhere

<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: good point

<elkbuntu> the latter will come later

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, oh, right.. sorry

<elkbuntu> lets start the count again... aye or nay for use of facilities at ubuntuforums.org?

<hysterio> nay

<elkbuntu> nay

<yama> returning closer to the topic, I propose that we promote Gmane more as an alternative to accessing the list directly

<rob> nay, if I count :)

<yama> (as I stated on the list earlier)

* MatthewV -1

<absoludity> Sorry, are we talking about the forum instead of, say, the email list?

<Hobbsee> nay

<elkbuntu> yama, that does not answer the above question

<Fujitsu> nay

<elkbuntu> absoludity, not 'instead of'

* sonicGB -1

<elkbuntu> rob, of course you count

<rob> super :D

<yama> elkbuntu: it does, in that people pushing for a Web forum are doing so because they don't like e-mail lists

<realist> Are we currently in a meeting?

<elkbuntu> yama, this isnt about having a forum or not, this is about using facilities specifically at ubuntuforums.org

<pschulz01> The only reason I would support a forum, is if there was a direct process of capturing the information into the wiki.

<rob> Gmane would be useful, it is for the LKML at least

<elkbuntu> realist, yes

<realist> Man, it's the 18th already... heh

<pschulz01> (A ubuntu-au forum)

<yama> elkbuntu: I don't see the difference

<elkbuntu> i think i'll call resolution to the previous point, we will not use ubuntuforums.org

<realist> Seems like only yesterday I updated the wiki

<absoludity> Why not just have it as an extra way that newbies to contact and ask for local help?

<elkbuntu> now, next.. do we want/need a forum

<realist> absoludity: they don't need a "LoCo" forum for that

<AlexC> want

<absoludity> If it gets used by newbies, great, we answer some questions there... if not, we dont

<Fujitsu> Neither.

<absoludity> realist: ok... true.

<hysterio> i dont see the need

<absoludity> nay from me then.

<MatthewV> imo, no.. its one more spot to get lost, and adds nothing to what we already ahve.. as proposed above/before, a more user friendly way to access mailing list archives may be a good idea

* rob +1s a Gmane solution instead for web based access to the existing mailing list

<realist> I'm sure the general ubuntu population would be a far greater resource for "newbie" questions

<absoludity> yep

<elkbuntu> rob, yama fwiw, i was under impression the gmane enhancement of the mailing list was agreed on a month ago

<hysterio> realist: yep

<MatthewV> realist, you are correct there, although a 'newbie' may get overwhelmed?

<realist> rob: I'm not sure what gmane is, however some type of http access to mailing list archives would be useful

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, if it was nothing has been done about it, has it?

<rob> realist: yes thats what it is, even allows you to send

<yama> elkbuntu: it appeared to be popular, but maybe we should promote it more?

<MatthewV> realist, http access is already possible

<realist> MatthewV: and having a loco irc channel, mailing list, wiki, and forums, isn't overwhelming?

<MatthewV> gmane just makes it easier

<sonicGB> Younger newbies will prefer web, but I'm afraid I'm not going to rush over to a web forum and support n00bs there. I'd prefer to offer support on usenet or IRC. As to the question of an au-specific forum, what would that do that a worldwide one wouldn't?

<MatthewV> realist, it is too

<elkbuntu> yama, i wouldnt have a clue how to use gmane, i have no idea if you set it up

<elkbuntu> mainly being, i've never tried/needed to use it

<yama> it's easy to set up, but it should be done by the list admin

<elkbuntu> im not even that person

<MatthewV> the fact remains that even if we could point 'newbies' to a web based forum, which one of the 'experts' in here would actually use it

<elkbuntu> i dont even know for sure who is

<yama> it's pretty easy to use, too

<rob> example of gmane: http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/1/12/79

<hysterio> sonicGB: im in total agreement - nothing specific to the AU LoCo isnt already covered by the wiki/irc

<yama> who is the official list admin?

<elkbuntu> yama, i dont know

<MatthewV> maybe YukiCuss still is?

<elkbuntu> yama, i think jdub might be

<Fujitsu> jdub is.

<elkbuntu> but he's yet to respond to me asking

<Fujitsu> I think...

<yama> I wouldn't mind taking over, if necessary

<Fujitsu> Not YukiCuss.

<realist> If we have forums, why not nntp, and rss feeds?

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, ok, just a thought

<yama> realist: gopher :)

<sonicGB> I think IRC is a different case... Overpopulation makes irc hard to manage, but a web or usenet forum thrives on large populations, so fragmentation isn't such a good idea for a web/nntp forum

<MatthewV> realist, we have to draw a line somewhere, so we are currently deciding which side of forums to draw that line ;)

<realist> yama: ahhh, if only we could turn back time that far ;p

<yama> I think gmane also has a nntp interface

<rob> yama: yep

<elkbuntu> is there really any harm in setting up a forum under www.ubuntu.com.au? the fragmentation will happen regardless, as they will just not participate

<yama> so using gmane would allow multiple interfaces to the same content

<hysterio> elkbuntu: i really dont see it being used

<rob> yep

<realist> I like that idea yama

<Fujitsu> I agree with hysterio.

<MatthewV> hysterio, +1

<rob> Gmane gives you http and nntp access to mailing lists, including sending

<elkbuntu> i do agree also, just putting the question forward

<realist> Has anyone thought about polling the mailing list?

<yama> remember, there's no rush. I think we should push Gmane for a while and see how it goes.

<realist> To see if anyone's interested in a web forum?

<MatthewV> if our demographics change in the future, the thing can be tackled again then

<sonicGB> elk: if there's not going to be participation, why head down that road in the first place? I agree with hysterio

<elkbuntu> realist, yes, that was a month ago

<realist> I know the .za LoCo was discussing it recently on their list

<elkbuntu> sonicGB, so people dont write to canonical on our behalf?

<absoludity> I thought the point was to open as many ways that people can get involved...

<absoludity> they may be comfortable with irc... they may not, but might be comfortable with forums...

<realist> Sure, let's make a static post to ubuntuforums.com, directing them to the mailing list

<realist> Sorted.

<elkbuntu> what? was the forum actually MADE?

<Fujitsu> WHAT!?

<elkbuntu> this is how im reading realist

<Fujitsu> Was it?

<sonicGB> look, I'm a swinging voter here. On absoludity's point - as many ways - and elk's point - any harm.... I agree with both. At the same time, I wouldn't use it myself (but I'm not everybody).

<Fujitsu> Same.

<absoludity> Another way to think about it, is to look at what other companies eager to foster participation are doing... what works well, what's a waste of time etc.

<realist> ubuntuforums.com exists

<elkbuntu> realist, run by a madman

<realist> an .au loco thread, does not, afaik

<elkbuntu> realist, it's not going to help if suddenly *poof* it is gone

<realist> so what are we discussing here?

<realist> personally, I'd discourage people from reading, and/or using ubuntuforums

<yama> absoludity: too many communications avenues can fragment the community

<Fujitsu> I 'gree with realist.

<hysterio> yama +1

<elkbuntu> realist, we've already decided to avoid ubuntuforums. putting a post there isnt going to give the right idea

<absoludity> yama: aha... havent' thought about that...

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, out of curiosity, has anyone actually taken any steps to adressing ryan's behaviour?

<yama> I suggest that we wait until the dust settles on the ubuntuforums fracas, then we re-examine the situation

<sonicGB> fragmentation concerns me... get one consistent message out... get a lot of slightly different messages out via all sorts of mediums, and folks won't know where to go, what to believe

<realist> Having language based forums, makes more sense than geographic based forums

<sonicGB> yama +1

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, the only way possible when he has us by the balls

<sonicGB> realist +1

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, hmm...

<absoludity> sonic: but I thought we weren't necessarily talking about getting a message out, but helping newbies get involved..?

<realist> Who's Ryan, or do I not want to know?

<MatthewV> realist, the ubuntuforums owner

<realist> .org?

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, he's already pissed off he's being bound by the LCOC which states one cannot hold position based solely on being 'first there'

<MatthewV> the 'madman' mentioned earlier

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, yeah, i got a small part of the picture looking through those meeting logs. and you and Fujitsu have given me some more

<realist> Anyone else noticed that sf.net isn't what it once was?

<sonicGB> absoludity: what would a .au forum do that the .com doesn't? This is the intarweb, lines are drawn on language, not geographic location... To be honest, I see pro's on both sides. If asked to vote, I'd probably sit on the fence.

<MatthewV> I'll throw in my vote as no forums, anywhere, atm

<MatthewV> i gtg now

<realist> Come to think of it... I think pipenetworks is having serious difficulty

<elkbuntu> for starters, we'd have full control over the .au one

<MatthewV> so I'll catch you all later

<elkbuntu> cya MatthewV

<hysterio> bye MatthewV

<Fujitsu> realist, you don't say.

<Fujitsu> Bye, MatthewV.

* MatthewV waves bye - thanks for understanding elkbuntu Fujitsu ;)

<realist> If we have a forum, it might as well be the same content as mailing list + nntp

<absoludity> sonicGB: only provide a way for newbies who are more comfortable reading a forum to find other locals in au... maybe?

<realist> ie. multiple interfaces to the same content

<elkbuntu> ok, for the resolution: "Try GMANE and hold off having a web forum at this point in time" +1 0 or -1

<realist> Otherwise, it's pointless, and will segregate the community

<sonicGB> absoludity: on that basis, yes, that's perfectly reasonable

<hysterio> +1

<Fujitsu> If we have to have a forum, one can be organised on ubuntu.com.au.

<yama> I thine we are making the mistake that Web fora and mailing lists serve a similar purpose. As I see it, mailing lists are more community-centric, while Web fora are more support-oriented. In that case, there is no need for an ubuntu-au Web forum, since people who are after support can (and should) seek help from the wider English-speaking community worldwide

<Fujitsu> +1

* sonicGB 0

<yama> s/thine/think/

<realist> +1

<hysterio> yama: exactly

<elkbuntu> yama, your vote?

<Fujitsu> yama, precisely.

<realist> Not necessarily gmane, but any tool fit for the purpose

<yama> ah, forgot to vote :)

<yama> -1

<yama> less web forum, more gmane

<elkbuntu> um... read the vote line again

<yama> we can re-examine things later on

<hysterio> hehehe

<elkbuntu> then that means +1

<absoludity> yama: yep... agreed.

<elkbuntu> ok, resolution carried

* realist agrees with yama

<elkbuntu> lets try siccness item: do we want to be meeting on new years day?

<elkbuntu> -1

<hysterio> -1

<realist> 0

<yama> just to clarify, did we vote _for_ or _against_ the forum?

<hysterio> against

<elkbuntu> against for now

<yama> ok

<rob> heh

<yama> great

* sonicGB would be perfectly happy to be here on new years day... can't promise no hangover in the morning though :-)

<yama> as for meeting up, absolutely

<elkbuntu> yama, as in ... this meeting... on new years day

<pschulz01> pschulz01: -1 (against)

<yama> oops, misunderstood.

<elkbuntu> hehe

<yama> I'll try to make a meeting on Jan 1 if it is held, but I can't promise anything

<elkbuntu> i think we'll just call it off ;)

<sonicGB> ;-)

<realist> I'll be severely hung over, and packing for .za trip

<yama> or move it to another date, like Jan 2

<elkbuntu> yama, given other people do things for more than just one day over new year, it's a bit silly

<hysterio> if there is urgent business, i say we move it back a couple of days - otherwise just skip it

<yama> the turnout will likely be low, so probably skip it

<elkbuntu> ok, so noted

<elkbuntu> and with that: meeting over!

<hysterio> kewl

*** stuart_ is now known as croppa

<yama> elkbuntu: any movement on the stand for LCA?

<GrantG> eek, I've missed the meeting?

<yama> GrantG: by about 5 secs :(

<elkbuntu> GrantG, yeah :-/

<GrantG> lol

<GrantG> typical....

<elkbuntu> yama, we have a booth, yes. electricity and internet

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: how big?

<sonicGB> what's an LCA please?

<yama> elkbuntu: wow. I should have offred earlier, but do you need anything done beforehand?

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, no idea

<yama> since I live in Sydney I may be able to do stuff

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: I have more ideas for yo.

<elkbuntu> yama, i think we just need a few hundred prints of the posters and a few hundred brown paper bags with handles

<GrantG> I'm close to Sydney as well

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, such as?

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Any chance of getting a whiteboard ;-)

<yama> how do we organise those?

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, no idea

<realist> okay, optusnet sf.net mirror, is officially fubar!

<yama> also, do we have enough CDs to give away?

<absoludity> I second sonicGB's request... what's LCA (Linux Conference Au?) and when/where is it?

<elkbuntu> yama, jellyware still has almost all the edgys

<yama> lca2007.linux.org.au

<absoludity> taa

<realist> I've still got ~50 6.06.1 LTS CDs I want to give away

<yama> that's ok, jellyware is in Sydney

<elkbuntu> yep

<yama> do we want to give Dapper or Edgy?

<yama> or have both?

<elkbuntu> i say have both

<yama> sounds good to me

<elkbuntu> i think if everyone brought what dappers we have left, we'll have plenty

<yama> should we have the other *buntus as well?

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, what would said whiteboard be for, pray tell

<sonicGB> I've got a small handfull (maybe 10) of 6.06 and a couple of dozen of whatever version came before it (the 2 cd set).... any use to anyone?

<yama> edubuntu would be good

<elkbuntu> yama, yes. i have stickers for kubuntu and edubuntu as well

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: I was trying to think of things (other than giveaways) that can show what the community was all about.

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, in what way will a whiteboard help?

<realist> Someone take these dapper CDs off me

<sonicGB> pschulz01: I can loan a whiteboard, about 5-6ft x 3-4ft ish, so long as I get it back! :-)

<yama> no way, we need a plasma screen ;p

<realist> Before I leave the country :-)

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: We could have a 'program' of people who could turn up.. eg. Mark, if he's there.

<pschulz01> adhoc sort of stuff..

<pschulz01> yama: It's hard to see white board markers on a plasma screen.

<hysterio> lol

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Tallies.. eg. how many CD's we've given out.

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Contact details.. interesting websites.. names of useful people..

<sonicGB> and what's more, the owner of the plasma will get pretty hysterical when they find out about the whiteboard marker!

<pschulz01> and IRC channels.

<yama> we'll be too busy to keep track of that stuff, I would think

<yama> (based on experience)

<pschulz01> Hence the whiteboard.

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, people are not going to remember that stuff from a whiteboard. leaflets ftw

<elkbuntu> like the ones i send out with stickers

<GrantG> just as long as you don't mention the Forums ;)

<sonicGB> don't mention the war!

<GrantG> hehe

<yama> I hate to say it, but dead tree format is cool

<pschulz01> Oh well,, I tried.

<sonicGB> dead trees... you can hold 'em in your hand and read 'em at your leisure

<sonicGB> whiteboards good for frantically explaining stuff to people... I have two in my office, would die without 'em....

<yama> pschulz01: I'm not saying that a whiteboard isn't useful

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Do you have a copy of my brochire.

<sonicGB> not so good for stuff that folks need to take away with them

<yama> What we really need are demo machines

<elkbuntu> http://meldra.no-ip.info/forenvelopes.jpg

<pschulz01> brochure

<pschulz01> I will have a laptop with me.

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, digital, but i have no way of making that physical

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Hmm. We need to get some printed.

<elkbuntu> im nearly penniless and will be destitute after LCA combined with annual car-related expenses

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: :-(

<yama> elkbuntu: lucky you won that prize, then :)

* sonicGB is happy to abuse my printing rights at a certain .edu.au to the tune of a few hundred copies if that helps :-)

<sonicGB> s/my/his/

<absoludity> elkbuntu: gee... just found the rego costs... do you have to pay??

<pschulz01> Know any companies that can sponsor for their name on a whiteboard :-)

<sonicGB> my whiteboard comes with TLA.edu.au engraved in the back! does that count? :-)

* pschulz01 thinks "whiteboard" == "hammer" and everything looks like a nail.

* sonicGB smacks pschulz01 upside the head with a..... whiteboard!

<elkbuntu> sonicGB, tla=?

<sonicGB> three letter acronym!

<sonicGB> I'm being deliberately cagey. IRC logs are, well, logged :-)

<yama> anyone else find it amusing that TLA isn't actually an acronuym?

<pschulz01> “tla.edu.au” could not be found.

<pschulz01> It will be at the uni. so there should be whiteboards around...

<lucychili> or....blackboards!

<pschulz01> .. it's also my (underhanded) way of finding out how bit the booth is. (Does it fit a whiteboard).

<pschulz01> big

* sonicGB drags his fingernails down the blackboards - all of 'em - for all to enjoy!

<lucychili> or wikis?

* lucychili melts

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, feel free to ask greebo any of this whenever you see her

<sonicGB> pschulz01: if it's a 4ft x 3ft whiteboard, and we need to put it up in portrait mode, then we're in trouble! :-)

<pschulz01> Someone (glancing at lucychili) could do some Ubuntu art..

<cps> or you could get some chalk and draw ubuntu themed hopscotch on the floor

<elkbuntu> we get to have an A3 size 'poster' atm im thinking http://meldra.no-ip.info/ubuntu-au-poster.png

<pschulz01> Hmm.. slow.. how many cicked on that?

<pschulz01> +1

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, probably all of you

<absoludity> +1

<sonicGB> elk: not big enough to print on a3, also the cute reflection thing won't work well on paper...

* pschulz01 listens to the sound of a server screaming.

<elkbuntu> sonicGB, i have it in .svg and various other vector formats

<sonicGB> vector: good

<elkbuntu> and fyi, that is the inkscape version of a3 :Þ

<yama> nice

<pschulz01> I can get A0 Black and white printing for $10.

<sonicGB> take it back anyway... 2300+ pixels wide won't be photo quality, but it won't be crap either

<cps> have you tried printing it to see how it comes out on paper?

<sonicGB> omg! where do you get a0 for $10?

<Fujitsu> pschulz01, I find that incredibly unlikely.

<sonicGB> tla.edu.au printing folks do full colour a2 for $17... can't remember what bigger sizes cost

<pschulz01> I'll have to check... B/W though.

<sonicGB> love the dot patterned map of australia, it looks great. are the aboriginal folks ok with that sort of stuff?

<elkbuntu> sonicGB, they dont have exclusive on dots

<yama> considering the artform is thousands of years old, I'd say their patent has expired :)

<elkbuntu> yeah

<elkbuntu> plus, it's as much pixels as globs of paint :Þ

<yama> pointillism was used by European artists, too

<sonicGB> ok, I offered a whiteboard, printing (b/w a5, a4, a3, colour a3), a small handfull of CDs, I can even ask the Indigenous Program academics about the dots... no one answered... I'm a n00b here, so I'll sit on my hands now 'cos I don't know the protocol, but my email address is in /msg nickserve sonicGB if all y'all want to take me up on any of that.

<sonicGB> (why-t-f does a macbook keyboard have an enter key where the right-ctrl is supposed to be? sheesh!!!)

<cps> think different

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Who do you have to help with organising the booth?

<elkbuntu> sonicGB, we dont know where we're at as far as the need for whiteboard, printing or even cds yet

<yama> who said that a ctrl key is 'supposed' to be there?

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, so far you and david and someone else and yama

<sonicGB> elk: that's why I said call when you know!

<elkbuntu> but iirc yama will be busy with something else as well

<elkbuntu> sonicGB, cool

<yama> yes

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, basically, either there's not many going, or everyone is assuming everyone else is on it

<sonicGB> I'm not entitled to a conference fee this year (they pay for your degree, they won't also pay for your conferences) so turning up to linux.conf.au is problematic, but if you need a hand, also yell. I'm close enough to unsw to help out if required.

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Do you want me to raise the 'whiteboard availability' question with greebo then?

<elkbuntu> pschulz01, if you see her, otherwise i'll email

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: hehe.. I need to find a telescope..

<elkbuntu> o.O

<elkbuntu> surely the uni would have one :Þ

<pschulz01> ADL -> SYD

<elkbuntu> aha

<elkbuntu> funneh

<pschulz01> Any ideas of what else we ca do on the day?

<sonicGB> elkbuntu: the uni probably has hundreds of whiteboards. Whether or not they'll give you one is a very different question. Insofar as renting space for conferences goes, I think you'll find that the conference is very much on it's own wrt facilities like whiteboards, projectors, etc (unless you have an insider of course!!!)

<pschulz01> sonicGB: Insiders are very useful..

<sonicGB> I'm an insider... but not at unsw....

<elkbuntu> i was talking about the telescope

<sonicGB> lolz! my bad!

<elkbuntu> but sure, same deal would apply

<pschulz01> sonicGB: There a usually whiteboards on wheels in labs..

<elkbuntu> especially for a 10k telescope

<yama> do we have contacts at the unsw cse dept?

<yama> CSE = Computer Science and Engineering

<pschulz01> elkbuntu: Maybe you can also ask greebo if there is anything in particular she would like us to do?

<elkbuntu> well, i've booked me a 10 min lightning talk thing for open day.. no idea how that's going to work

<Xmas_Penguin> well i guess i have missed the meeting again

<elkbuntu> Xmas_Penguin, by a fair shot, yes

<pschulz01> Xmas_Penguin: You also missed my cooking.

<Xmas_Penguin> why is the meeting at suppa time

<pschulz01> food for the soul?

<Xmas_Penguin> i think a new meeting time is needed

<yama> it's a conspiracy :)

<Xmas_Penguin> pschulz01: yeah salad, and tuna

<elkbuntu> Xmas_Penguin, we did a poll, several times, every time it has been this day at this time was the most availablee

<pschulz01> Xmas_Penguin: Move to a different timezone?

<MatthewV> hi again all... so no forums for now, skip meeting for Jan 1 and just move to Jan 15 meeting?

<hysterio> yes

<yama> isn't that on lca?

<MatthewV> hysterio, thankyou :)

<MatthewV> yama, if it is? does that change anything?

<yama> I think we may need a meeting before LCA

<elkbuntu> i believe so

<elkbuntu> like the week before

<yama> MatthewV: to plan for LCA

<MatthewV> k, so that'd give us a Jan 8 meeting?

<elkbuntu> set it for the 8th

<elkbuntu> yep

<yama> agreed

* MatthewV wonders why siccness didnt show up just to set the topic

<elkbuntu> may be otherwise occupied

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o elkbuntu

<yama> ooh, the POWAH!

*** elkbuntu changes topic to "Welcome to the Official Australian Ubuntu LoCo Team channel! || meetings: every second Monday at 0900 UTC; next meeting January 8th. || mailing list: http://ubuntu.com.au/go/mlist || Please abide by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct whilst in this channel: http://ubuntu.com/community/conduct"

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, yeah. the pub needed his services iirc

<MatthewV> ;)

*** elkbuntu changes topic to "Welcome to the Official Australian Ubuntu LoCo Team channel! || meetings: every second Monday at 0900 UTC; next meeting January 8th. || mailing list: http://ubuntu.com.au/go/mlist || Please abide by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct whilst in this channel: http://ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Ubuntu-Au wishes everyone a happy and safe holiday season!"

*** elkbuntu sets mode: -o elkbuntu

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, lol

<sonicGB> what do pubs need with geeks, apart from to buy beer?

<sonicGB> no, wait!

<MatthewV> sonicGB, nothing else

<sonicGB> MatthewV: I have a similar relationship with my refrigerator!

<MatthewV> btw, don't touch the wiki pages, my warning has expired but i'm still editing them

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, what's a good way to say that we dont like ubuntuforums ?

<elkbuntu> i dont know if there is a good way

<MatthewV> Decision was made to stay away from ubuntuforums.org because of some structure issues?

<elkbuntu> lack of trust for the stability of managment

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, you want to be that explicit? k...

<elkbuntu> maybe not then

<elkbuntu> i dont know. as i said.

<elkbuntu> im not sure there's a right way to say

<elkbuntu> but being vague is unfair on those who did not attend

<MatthewV> A decision was made to stay away from ubuntuforums.org due to issues with the structure of the forums, and it was decided that there is currently no need for any web forums.

<elkbuntu> ok

<elkbuntu> whatever you think will suffice

<MatthewV> i'll leave it like that for now then

<MatthewV> will our meeting cycle be permanently offset by a week.. ie will next meeting (after jan 8) be on jan 22? or on jan 15?

<yama> I'd say Jan 22

<yama> since Jan 15 is LCA

<purserj> elkbuntu: MatthewV is there any actual need to mention the forums or problems with them on the wiki pages?

<elkbuntu> purserj, um the meeting summary

<MatthewV> purserj, in the minutes we give a brief (short paragraph) summary of the decision

<purserj> ah sorry

<purserj> got a bit confused

<MatthewV> meeting summary is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings/2006Dec18

<MatthewV> logs will be up shortly, i hope

<yama> I had a browse of http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-12-12.html and didn't see any signs of friction. What am I missing?

<MatthewV> yama, well, according to elkbuntu and Fujitsu that's only the tip of the iceberg, but surely you noticed ubuntugeek's 'stubbornness'?

<yama> a bit

<Fujitsu> `good day'

<siccness> Evening all

<MatthewV> hi siccness

<siccness> How was the meeting?

<MatthewV> you missed your opportunity to change the topic

<siccness> So I see we decided to move the next meeting till the 8th

<siccness> :)

<elkbuntu> yama, specifically the parts where he threatened to leave unless the LCOC was changed so he was boss of forums forever and a day regardless of if he behaved appropriately or not, just because he was first there

<MatthewV> siccness, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustralianTeam/Meetings/2006Dec18

<elkbuntu> and kept threatening to leave the meeting because they disagreed with him

<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: forums stuff and ops stuff - looks like it's a good day!

<siccness> MatthewV: looks like everything went my way :)

<siccness> but I didn't get to change the topic, i am disappointed in that :)

<MatthewV> and we see that as a big issue cause this potentially means a disagreement with him and canonical or anything could see the forums kaput! for lack of a better way to put it

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, of course.

<yama> elkbuntu: can you tell me approximately where on the page it is? It's a long transcript

<Fujitsu> Admittedly, I'd quite like the forums to go kaput...

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, it would not do us any good, unfortunately

<Fujitsu> It wouldn't be quite so bad if we didn't have another, more evil SABDFL specifically for the forums.

<yama> would he have a goatee?

* MatthewV considers changing Sicc 'Sexy' ness to Michael Andrews

<siccness> Nah :P

<siccness> Let's face it, I am sexy.

* MatthewV can't face anything

<yama> so sexy it hurts

<siccness> yama: that's it mate ;)

<MatthewV> xept my pc

<siccness> that was possibly the shortest pub trip ever

<siccness> what a waste of movement

<elkbuntu> 05:23 ubuntugeek "Leaders in Ubuntu can not and will not stay leaders only because they got there first"

<elkbuntu> 05:23 ubuntugeek sure they can..

<elkbuntu> 05:23 ubuntugeek why not

<elkbuntu> was his first semi-tantrum

<elkbuntu> 06:11 ubuntugeek +1 matthew

<elkbuntu> 06:11 ubuntugeek or we cant move forward

<elkbuntu> was the second

<elkbuntu> where he told the CC what to vote

<elkbuntu> then threathned to leave if they didnt

<siccness> sorry to barge in, but whats all this about?

<elkbuntu> siccness, forums

<Fujitsu> siccness, forums god.

<elkbuntu> and the behavior of the guy who can flip the switch

<siccness> can we vote? :P

<Lathiat> hah dear god

<Lathiat> whos matthew?

<Lathiat> is that the guy?

<elkbuntu> no

<Fujitsu> Lathiat, no. That guy is Ryan. Matthew is another proposed FC member.

<MatthewV> Lathiat, matthew is one of the forum staff

<elkbuntu> ubuntugeek is the guy we are talking about

<yama> thanks elkbuntu

<siccness> so im assuming he wants to remove the forums?

<yama> I spent some time skimming over it, but I must've missed it

<elkbuntu> here's the threat --> 06:18 ubuntugeek ok if the three admins and the various mod's here backing people are not good enough then i am done here

<Fujitsu> siccness, no.

<Fujitsu> siccness, he is debating the new Ubuntu-ness to be placed on the forums.

<purserj> so if someones chucking a snit, whats to stop the community from replacing him?

<Fujitsu> Like, a council governing them.

<siccness> Fujitsu: ahh ok

<Lathiat> www.##ubuntu-forums.org

* Lathiat grins

<elkbuntu> purserj, this guy has the forum switch, so effectively he has shuttleworth by the balls because shuttleworth doesnt want to have to start an established community sector over again

<siccness> Surely someone else has access to the data files stored for the forum?

<siccness> So a switch of users/messages can be done?

<elkbuntu> siccness, not that i am aware of

<siccness> That's piss poor.

<Fujitsu> Expelling ubuntugeek would anger a lot of people, I'm sure.

<MatthewV> siccness, the ubuntuforums.org domain carries a lot of weight, all else aside

<purserj> so if I get this straight, he's hosting the forums on his own servers?

<Fujitsu> Canonical pays for the machine, I'm sure they have access.

<Lathiat> siccness: it didnt start out as an official canonical project

<Lathiat> theyre trying to make it one

<Lathiat> but well

<Lathiat> thats the issue

<purserj> ah okay

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, yeah.. if you wanted to do that, you'd have to explain to all the community all about ubuntugeek before you could do that

<Fujitsu> ubuntugeek is also resisting the removal of Google ads, I presume.

<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, well it does generate a fair bit of money

<siccness> Lathiat: oh really?

<siccness> Hmm

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, hmm... i wonder where the money goes

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, but it is /wrong/.

<siccness> Indeed.

<Lathiat> s/canonical/ubuntu really

<elkbuntu> apparantly he's still 'a few hundred dollars a month' out of pocket because of the forums

<Lathiat> but canonical=ubuntu in more ways than it is worth trying to split up the difference

<elkbuntu> which is total bull imho

<Fujitsu> elkbuntu, I'd presume so.

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, so either canonical is not paying for it all or he is lying

<elkbuntu> the ads money does not go to canonical, no

<Lathiat> hhow the hell is he "a few hundred dollars" out of pocket

<Lathiat> if a) canonical is contriuting

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, my money is on the latter

<Lathiat> and b) he runs ads

<Lathiat> there is no fucking way unless hes buying some idiots hosting

<purserj> Lathiat: have you tried making money off google ads?

<elkbuntu> Lathiat, the ads are allegedly to cover the out of pocket

<yama> canonical should probably host the fora themselves

<siccness> yama: yup

<Fujitsu> yama, I think they do.

<MatthewV> Lathiat, elkbuntu according to the about page on the forums... canonical has donated one dual core opteron server

<siccness> Makes logical sense, really.

<yama> that would remove all debates about costs and revenues

<Lathiat> purserj: no, but i know some people who have done ok off them

<Lathiat> depending on the site content anywhere up to $100US/month

<Lathiat> depend on the site

<Lathiat> i know some do diddly-squat

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, they pay the hosting, this i heard from the top

<Lathiat> i heard that they pay the hosting

<Lathiat> so if they do that

<Lathiat> i cant see any way hes ending up 'a few hundred dollars' out of pocket

<elkbuntu> Lathiat, i think from jane's lips counts fairly high

<siccness> what's pay for hosting actually mean? Do they own the server/pay for the server?

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, yeah i believe you, i'm just quoting the forums - here's the exact quote:

<siccness> or do they just pay the bandwidth?

<purserj> Whos server is it?

<Lathiat> unless he is trying to count his time or something

<MatthewV> The Ubuntu forums are privately owned by Ryan (ubuntu-geek) and launched unofficially in October 2004 as a personal project to fill a niche in the newly created Ubuntu Distribution, since its inception the forums have become the official english forums for Ubuntu and currently support over 140,000 registered members. In March 2006, Canonical offered sponsored hosting and donated a 2x Dual Core Opteron server for the forums.

<elkbuntu> there, it says the hosting part

<purserj> Right, so they're still Ryans boxes then

<purserj> he owns them

<MatthewV> purserj, yeah i'd say so

<elkbuntu> purserj, unfortunately yes

<Lathiat> the reality is, he doesnt want to lose control

<Lathiat> which is what happens when you surrender to a community

<purserj> Lathiat: understandable

<Lathiat> its an ego war and its goign to take a while to settle

<siccness> I wouldn have thought 2x dual-core opterons would have been pretty weak for a large forum like ubuntu-forums

<siccness> although thats not important :P

<MatthewV> i would say there's more

<elkbuntu> Lathiat, however with ryan's emotional stability, i dont want to be around for the tugs

<Lathiat> TBH many people would find themselves in the realm of stuck there

<MatthewV> canonical is sponsering hosting, that's just the one box they have directly donated

<purserj> it looks badly managed

* Hobbsee wonders what jono says to all of this

<Lathiat> who here is coming to LCA?

<Lathiat> purserj, Hobbsee?

<siccness> Lathiat: 08 ill be there

<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, jono was in the meeting with the naughty words, along with imbrandon

<purserj> I'm going to be there

<Lathiat> siccness: but not 07?

<siccness> Lathiat: unfortunately no :(

<Hobbsee> Lathiat: i'll be there for open day

<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, screaming or similar.

<Lathiat> Hobbsee: only open day?

<Lathiat> siccness: doh :(

<siccness> Lathiat: unless elkbuntu sends me half the cheque :P

* siccness runs

<elkbuntu> Lathiat, she'll accept ticket dontions

<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh

<Lathiat> are you a student?

<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: my boss would kill me if i couldnt work

<Lathiat> Hobbsee: ?

<Lathiat> ah, work, woo

<Lathiat> elkbuntu: are you going?

<yama> chuck a sickie

<elkbuntu> she'll accept ticket and karate lesson donations*

<Lathiat> ... 4 days in a row ;)

<elkbuntu> Lathiat, yes

<siccness> Fujitsu: how's the job holding up mate?

<yama> get a doctor's certificate for "accute bludgitis"

<siccness> Hahaha

<Lathiat> Hobbsee: if you could find another day or two off i'd *really* recommend it

<Lathiat> LCA is top stuff

<Fujitsu> siccness, great :)

<realist> An even better idea, get work to pay you to attend...

<Lathiat> realist: unfortuantely thats nto a reality for everyone ;p

<elkbuntu> realist, a supermarket isnt likely to care much for hobbsee attending a linux conference

<Fujitsu> Sure they are.

<Lathiat> i've got the week off but im not being paid to do it ;p

<siccness> Fujitsu: Yeah? Nice to hear mate.

<Hobbsee> heh

<siccness> You doing a better job than the previous admin?

<Fujitsu> Probably.

<MatthewV> Fujitsu, what you doing?

<siccness> Niice :)

<Fujitsu> Most of the configuration stuff was totally screeeewed.

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, you want me to mail a meeting summary to the list/

<MatthewV> *?

<siccness> Fujitsu: what kind of configs?

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, please

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, no probs will do :)

<lucychili> meeting today? ah crap

<MatthewV> lucychili, finished almost an hour ago ;)

<elkbuntu> MatthewV, remember to add a reminder about the 8th at the end and all that

<MatthewV> * almost 2 hours

<realist> Fujitsu: what do you do?

<lucychili> MatthewV, i figured :/

<MatthewV> elkbuntu, :)

<siccness> elkbuntu: i hope my agenda item didn't cause too much confliction/issue

<Fujitsu> siccness, all the services on the servers. Apache was particularly screwed.

<siccness> Heheh

<Fujitsu> realist, Linux admin for a number of companies.

<Fujitsu> And he even tried to use NameVirtualHosts with SSL...

* Fujitsu rolls his eyes.

<siccness> Fujitsu: well you're younger than me so I can say this, im proud to see you're doing well mate ;)

<Fujitsu> Thanks :

<Fujitsu> *:)

<realist> Fujitsu: you still can use NameVirtualHosts with SSL

<realist> Common myth that you can't.

<Lathiat> no, you cant

<Lathiat> not with older browsers

<elkbuntu> siccness, nope, except we then realised the one after that was on LCA

<Lathiat> AIUI the newer browsers do support it, tho

<siccness> elkbuntu: ahh shit, lca has popped around quicker than xmas

<Fujitsu> realist, it's not possible for them to work.

<realist> Fujitsu: a number of companies? you sub contracting, or working for a larger consultancy?

<elkbuntu> siccness, gunna drive up for open day?

<Fujitsu> The Host header is sent through the encrypted tunnel...

<siccness> elkbuntu: car is crapped, no money, cant do it, but ill see you for 08? :)

<Fujitsu> realist, the company I work for does network administration stuff for 50-60 SMEs.

<elkbuntu> siccness, maybe

<siccness> i hope so, be nice to put a face to name

<lucychili> from melb -> syd for open day? crazy

<MatthewV> hmm.. are html emails to the list ok?

<siccness> lucychili: not at all

<lucychili> MatthewV, usually not

<Lathiat> MatthewV: generally unappreciated in the FS world

* MatthewV decides to go with plaintext

<yama> MatthewV: HTML is evil

<lucychili> siccness, your call :o

<MatthewV> yama, html is not email, but probably shouldnt be used in mail ;)

<siccness> a mate and i drove from melb to elkbuntu's suburb for 12hrs

<Fujitsu> +1 yama

<MatthewV> actually, xhtml is better ;)

<elkbuntu> and you didnt tell me?

<siccness> elkbuntu: it wasnt at your exact suburb

<siccness> but i told you i went to nsw

<elkbuntu> siccness, lol

<yama> MatthewV: yeah, I was just being brief. I meant HTML in e-mail. http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/AvoidHTMLinEmail

<siccness> elkbuntu: originally we were going to drive to the corner of the four states/territories but realised that only 3 connected

<elkbuntu> rofl

<MatthewV> yama, :)

<siccness> shows how intelligent my mate and i are :)

<siccness> elkbuntu: we actually spent $15 on maps to try and work it out :P haha

<elkbuntu> lol

* MatthewV tells himself for the hundreth time to go and buy a new pc

<siccness> MatthewV: let big sicc choose the parts

<siccness> or sexy sicc if you will :)

<MatthewV> hmm.. that might get expensive

<siccness> lol

<MatthewV> i'm bad enough ;)

<siccness> depends on the budget :P

<MatthewV> yeah.. just an extra $40 here wont bother me.. and before long i have this stack a parts worth a few grand :(

<MatthewV> on paper that is

<MatthewV> ;)

<siccness> lets go bag england now that we have the ashes back

<yama> it was supposedly the shortest ashes reign ever

<MatthewV> yama you cant get any shorter can you?

<MatthewV> heh i like this... in gmail: Your message has been sent. *View sent message* *Invite Ubuntu Mailing List to Gmail*

<siccness> yama: of course.

<siccness> yama: look at it this way, the ashes wont leave our land (despite the fact they state in england) for another 15 years.

<siccness> :D

<siccness> s/state/stay/

<yama> MatthewV: it was only a 15-month reign. I guess it could have been shorter if they held it earlier. It is supposed to be held every two years.

<siccness> yama: thats bullshit.

<siccness> It varies

<realist> MatthewV: I priced up a $5mil system the other day... too easy to get carried away when computer shopping ;p

<MatthewV> wow o_o

<yama> siccness: what varies?

<siccness> The ashes series

<MatthewV> i remember when apc put together a 'dream' system for $9500

<siccness> $9500, thats easy to break

<yama> siccness: no, it is biennial

<siccness> 8x opteron setup

<yama> essentially

<siccness> yama: my point exactly, "essentially". It's not every 2 years, considering they only had it for 15 months

<yama> siccness: so what's your point?

<realist> MatthewV: it was an itanium based vms cluster, 3 or 4 cabinets full of expensive kit

<yama> it is held roughly every two years

<siccness> "It is supposed to be held every two years" isn't true.

<Fujitsu> siccness, only 8? That'st pathetic.

<Fujitsu> *That's

<siccness> Fujitsu: Heheh

<siccness> Well I can build a 256 proc setup

<yama> siccness: semantics. No need to be a dick about it.

<siccness> 2TB of RAM

<siccness> yama: not intentionally trying to be a dick about it at all.

<yama> then mind your language

<siccness> Just stating that 9 months is is quite far from 2 years.

<yama> you did more than that.

<yama> anyway, I found this image to be interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes#Summary_of_results_and_statistics

<siccness> Well I do apologise if I have upset you. I didn't mean to cause any issue over this, sorry.

<yama> siccness: heh, no offence taken :) Although I do think you need to watch what you say a bit. Sometimes it looks like you're being abusive when you don't mean it.

<siccness> It's the internet, anything can be misinterpreted. If you met me in real life you'll know that I'm never serious.

<MatthewV> hi Phlosten

<yama> siccness: yep, I say stuff like that all the time, with a smile to show I'm not serious

<yama> but it doesn't work as well in plain text

<Phlosten> evening all

<Fujitsu> yama, HTML is better? :P

<Phlosten> howdy MatthewV

<siccness> Yup, fair enough. I did miss the emoticon, hence the apology :)

<MatthewV> how're things going Phlosten ?

<Phlosten> MatthewV, not bad

<MatthewV> Phlosten, thats always good :

<MatthewV> *:)

<yama> Fujitsu: that's dangerous ground you're treading upon :)

<Fujitsu> I /love/ HTML mail. Best thing since sliced bread.

* Fujitsu ducks.

<siccness> lol

* MatthewV groans

<realist> Fujitsu: I love it so much, that I reject it ;p

<siccness> Hahaha

<Fujitsu> I also love how Exchange took my nice generated plain text email and clobbered it by taking CRLF as two line breaks.

<Fujitsu> Whereas nothing else does.

<yama> I love it to death

<realist> mime-defang and/or regex-milter is your friend :-)

<realist> Fujitsu: that's almost as good as how thunderbird inserts hyperlinks into plain-text emails! ;p

<realist> G'night y'all

<siccness> Night champ.

<MatthewV> night realist

<Fujitsu> Night again, realist.

<lucychili> night

* realist vanishes!

<Phlosten> wow, PS CS2 is some decent bloatware

<MatthewV> realist, doesn't vanish.. maybe something went wrong ;)

<siccness> I need a gaming box so I can play the new Goldeneye Half Life playon/addition/extra thingo

<yama> one piece of advice: if you're considering an Xbox 360, don't bother

<siccness> nah i've got enough microsoft products to belt with a hammer

<lucychili> afk

<yama> the wii is cool, the ps3 looks like it could be good, but the Xbox 360 feels just like an upgraded Xbox

<yama> plus it's MS :p

<siccness> Yeah, I want a Wii

<yama> my brother bought a 360 a week before the wii release. the fool just wouldn't listen

<siccness> I want Wii for Zelda

<Phlosten> go Zelda!

<siccness> OoT rocked

<siccness> I miss the N64, clearly one of the best consoles

<Phlosten> i dont miss it, we still have one :)

<siccness> I sold mine for $25

<Phlosten> it gets more use than the PS2

<siccness> Stupidest thing ive ever done

<Phlosten> they rock for 3 year olds

<Phlosten> no discs to scratch

<yama> Goldeneye was brilliant

<siccness> Goldeneye was great

<yama> that game made the console

<siccness> but the best game for n64 was Zelda: OoT

<yama> never tried that one

<Phlosten> nothing beats mario kart

<Phlosten> :)

<siccness> mario kart was good for the "well, few friends over" days

<MatthewV> siccness, would a n64 emulator be a consolation?

<siccness> MatthewV: Nah, it needs to be genuine

<yama> that's what I like about Nintendo consoles: they are communal

<siccness> So I'll have to pick up a nice n64 console again

<yama> I believe you can get old Nintendo games for the Wii, so presumably you could get Goldeneye, Mario Kart and Zelda: OoT

<siccness> yama: yeah, thats pretty cool

<siccness> Apparently Wii doesnt support 5.1?

<yama> as in audio?

<siccness> yup

<MatthewV> hi Bambi_BOFH

<Bambi_BOFH> hi MatthewV

<MatthewV> what's with the nick ?

<MatthewV> you cant hide.. your cloak gives it away ;)

<Bambi_BOFH> i know, i'm not rying to hide ;)

<Bambi_BOFH> this nick? it was this or `6og

<Bambi_BOFH> and this is easier to type :)

* yama shoots Bambi_BOFH

<yama> mmmm venison...

<MatthewV> what was wrong with your usual kk?

<Bambi_BOFH> MatthewV: its logged in at home

* Bambi_BOFH is at lucychili 's

<yama> Bambi_BOFH: have you tried an irc proxy or irssi over ssh?

<yama> you can use the same irc login from another location

<MatthewV> why not just kick your nick?

<Bambi_BOFH> yama: i'm logged in from irssi over ssh now, theres a few things stopping me moving my main ircing to irssi, but nothing major

<Bambi_BOFH> MatthewV: why kill it? its perfectly fine where it is

<Bambi_BOFH> and the cloak is there if needed ;)

<_greenie> anyone here know a way to put a avi onto a cd so that it can play in a dvd player?

<Bambi_BOFH> burn a vcd

<_greenie> it doesnt like my file

<Bambi_BOFH> :/

<_greenie> its a 702 MB avi of cars

<Phlosten> too big

<_greenie> when i try to burn it , it comes up as a 1028MB file

<_greenie> thats when i try and burn it as a VCD

<_greenie> when i do it as a data, it comes up as 680MB...

<siccness> "Cars" the movie?

<_greenie> yeah

<siccness> Wouldn't happen to be a *SCREENER* would it? :P

<_greenie> nope, dvd rip

<yama> you'll need to convert it to MPEG1, at a bitrate that allows it to fit on a CD

<_greenie> what software will allow me to do that?

<_greenie> progam/software, whatever

<yama> k3b and I think dvdrip

<yama> there are others as well but I can't remember them now

<_greenie> the avi is only 702MB tho... i dont know why that wont let me burn it as a VCD

<_greenie> or why it comes up as 1GB

<yama> it is a different video format

<Fujitsu> Because the AVI is compressed using another codec.

<yama> you are transcoding from one format to another

<_greenie> of course

* _greenie bangs his head on monitor

<_greenie> what compression will i need for a 2 hour movie?

<yama> AVI is a container format, in which you include a video and audio track(s), each encoded with a particular codec

<yama> _greenie: really depends on what's in it.

<siccness> 116min movie on 700MB is going to look like rat-shit.

<_greenie> he, probs :P

<yama> yeah, you're best off splitting it over 2 discs

<Fujitsu> Pixelated rat shit at that.

<yama> VCD is an old standard and isn't compressed very efficiently

<yama> it uses MPEG1

<yama> by comparison, DVD is MPEG2

<siccness> _greenie: if you own the DVD, I'd go looking at something along the lines of: 1200kbps video, 450kbps (for xvid)

<Phlosten> decent vcds were split over 2 discs

<siccness> 450 being audio

<yama> siccness: VCD can't use XviD

<siccness> yama: im aware

<siccness> I'm just stating the bitrates I'd be using if I went from DVD --> xvid :)

<yama> if I was doing XviD, I'd use something like 1200kbps video (Xvid) and 128kbps audio (Ogg Vorbis) in an OGG or Matroska container

<yama> no avi

<_greenie> well, what program should i use to convert from avi to mpeg1?

<_greenie> dvd rip?

<siccness> yama: you'd be left with 300MB of empty space on the second CD (considering that'd equal about 1100mb for a "Cars" )

<siccness> maybe not that much left over space

<yama> siccness: I was speaking generically, not about this particular issue.

<siccness> ah ok

<yama> _greenie: does it have to be VCD? It sounds like you're limiting yourself

<yama> _greenie: try dvdrip first

<TheColonial> hello all :)

* Bambi_BOFH remembers he had work to do on some sunblades at home

* Bambi_BOFH needs to attend to them when he gets home

<Bambi_BOFH> hey TheColonial :)

<TheColonial> just came on to share some exciting news. the missus bought me a new monitor :D so i finally have dual monitors at home for serious dev work. and i've just got the dual head working in Linux.. so im' happy :D

<Phlosten> woot!

<siccness> Cool :)

<TheColonial> it's an early xmas pressie :D

<TheColonial> yeah pretty stoked

<Bambi_BOFH> nice work mate :)

<siccness> I wish I had a girlfriend/partner to supply me with goods like that :D

<TheColonial> as of late Nov she's my wife.. :P

<TheColonial> yeah very happy mate

<siccness> Yup, lucky man :)

<TheColonial> she said "well, i know you've always wanted another monitor at home... so i'm going to get you one for xmas. but you pick and i'll pay" :D

<siccness> hahaha

<TheColonial> :P i scooped.

<siccness> I woulda pointed at the 60" plasma :)

<MatthewV> night all.. I'm off

<TheColonial> so how are you lads doing?

<TheColonial> lol...

<Phlosten> TheColonial, just remember that monitor when the 7 year itch approaches ;)

<siccness> Night mate :)

<TheColonial> nice MatthewV

<Bambi_BOFH> later MatthewV

<TheColonial> Phlosten: lol.. thanks for the reminder :P

<siccness> TheColonial: I'm doing quite well :)

* MatthewV heads off...

<TheColonial> siccness: excellent

<Phlosten> TheColonial, a few more years of sweet xmas presents left yet

<TheColonial> aye, i'll enjoy them while i can ;)

<Bambi_BOFH> lol

<TheColonial> Phlosten: is that the voice of experience? or are you just synical :P

* yama uses Synergy for pseudo dual head

<siccness> Lucky bastards :) I don't even get a hug anymore for xmas :)

<Phlosten> TheColonial, we havent made it to 7 years just yet

<Phlosten> TheColonial, 4 years for us this September just gone

<TheColonial> Phlosten: nice work mate :D

<siccness> Congrats, Phlosten

<Phlosten> i too use Synergy, it's ace

<TheColonial> Phlosten: were you together long before that?

<TheColonial> anyone: synergy is....? :D

<Phlosten> TheColonial, not really, 12 months

<TheColonial> Phlosten: long enough dude.

<TheColonial> Phlosten: me and the missus are just over 6 years in total now.

<Phlosten> TheColonial, nice

<TheColonial> anyways chaps. just wanted to share the joy. hope you're all well, i'm off to bed.

<siccness> So I come to you guys when I need advice? :)

<TheColoni