<RaymondX> .........

<grexk> gising na sila

<grexk> hehehe

<grexk> !seen jond3rd

<butiki> grexk: jond3rd was last seen in #ubuntu-ph 6 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: * jond3rd runs

<Jucato> good morning :)

<mikhail^> Jucato: good morning. :)

* mikhail^ is using Ubuntu _again_ :D

<Jucato> heheh

<grexk> bakit nagubuntu ka ulit?

<grexk> ano dati gamit mo?

<Jucato> nagubuntu? ano yan? bagong distro?? hehehe

<mikhail^> grexk: MS Windows

<Jucato> noooooo... :P

<mikhail^> grexk: in between Ubuntu Dapper and Ubuntu Edgy, I was on MS Windows

<grexk> hehee

<grexk> me my world just revolves around debian and ubuntu:-P

<Jucato> my world revolves around Kubuntu...

<grexk> windows just for gaming..

<Jucato> yeah that, too. but I rarely play games nowadays... so...

<grexk> Jucato: kita mo na yung mga videos ng PS3 sa youtube

* mikhail^ dabbles in Win32 and Linux C++ Software Development

<Jucato> ung FC5 on PS3?

<grexk> oo

<Jucato> yeah

<grexk> ubuntu ala pa ata ah

<grexk> hehehe

<grexk> Jucato: parang vmware-workstation yung sa vmserver?

<grexk> ang gamit?

<Jucato> vmware server?

<grexk> yup

<Jucato> opo. mas maraming features nga lang ang workstation compared to server, pero mas maraming features and server compared sa player.

<Jucato> server is also free (as in beer)

<grexk> ok

<grexk> enjoy and got some work here:-D

<Jucato> :)

<str0ng> gud morning all :)

<Jucato> good morning str0ng

<str0ng> yew Jucato

<grexk> strong: musta ka na

<grexk> expert ka na siguro sa python

<Jucato> hahah

<str0ng> grexk, ok lang..

<str0ng> grexk, nope.. heheeh.. i still cant resist the beauty of Java

<str0ng> specially now.. that its open sourced :)

<Jucato> str0ng is the Java guy... sino nga ba ang Python guy?

* Jucato forgets

<grexk> talaga kailan pa?

<str0ng> grexk, last week.. :)

<Jucato> heheh huli na sa balita :P

<grexk> patingin ng link

<str0ng> http://www.sun.com/software/opensource/java/

<str0ng> may openJDK na.. :)

<grexk> bakit di pa na news sa slashdot.

<mikhail^> grexk: where have you been? minutes after the announcement, it was already in slashdot.

<grexk> namiss ko lang pala...

<grexk> nasa developer news, linux and it lang binabasa ko...hahahaha

<str0ng> grexk, san ka ba nanggaling heheeh?

<grexk> jan lang sa tabi-tabi namu2xlot ng basura...hekhek

<Jucato> lol

<str0ng> heeheh..

<str0ng> mga ilang araw ka ring nawala grexk ah..

<grexk> str0ng: so balik java ka ulit

<str0ng> grexk, yeps..

<grexk> kasi busy ako sa samba+ldap+postfix.

<str0ng> grexk, need to move deeper in java.. before going anywhere else.. :)

<Jucato> same way I feel about C++ :)

<grexk> yah, and there are a lot of opportunities in Java.

<grexk> as well as C++.

<Jucato> hehe hinabol pa :P

<grexk> sali mo na rin C

<grexk> hehehe

<str0ng> grexk, well... sa nakikita ko.. yes..

<str0ng> but.. for me.. its not on _popularity_

<str0ng> heeheh.. i just find Java as my best friend..

<grexk> but my brains doesn't fit with all those there languages

<Jucato> wow. best friend :)

<str0ng> help me solve some problems i encounter :) heheeh

<grexk> s/there/three/

<str0ng> <grexk> but my brains doesn't fit with all those there languages <---- this is the reality.. heeheh

<RaymondX> who's hacking me??!!! grrrrr

<str0ng> u cant master all of those languages out there..

<Jucato> of course, not all. maybe 2 or 3 :P

<str0ng> all we have to do is.. pick the one that we are most convenient hehehe

<grexk> hehee

<RaymondX> i used eclipse to make my first java codes hehehe

<str0ng> and.. it just happen.. that.. as of now.. im comfortable with Java.. but.. im not closing the door.. im still remain open.. im still willing to spend some time.. learning python :)

<RaymondX> is there anything that java can't do?

<str0ng> RaymondX, you're also a Java programmer?

<Jucato> run without a vm?

<grexk> yah, java's life revolves around vm

<str0ng> Jucato, u can actually compile java byte codes into machine codes :)

<grexk> think about java's old days in linux

<RaymondX> just a beginner

<Jucato> "just in time" ba tawag dun?

<RaymondX> just started with the "hello world" stuff

<str0ng> Jucato, gcj can compile Java byte codes into machine code..

<RaymondX> if i can just find someone to teach me the complicated stuff :(

<str0ng> have you tried azarius?

<grexk> strOng <--- might help you

<str0ng> torrent client..

<grexk> me uses azureus

<Jucato> azureus

<Jucato> I don't hehehe

<str0ng> azureus.. is a Java product heheeh

<grexk> Jucato: anong gamit mong torrent client?

<Jucato> str0ng: if java can be compiled into machine code, why do we always have ones that run on VM? why can't we find binaries for Java apps?

<Jucato> grexk: KTorrent. no need for Java lol

<grexk> lol

<str0ng> Jucato, there's a good reason for that.. heeheh

<grexk> Jucato: KDE...hmmppp

<Jucato> portability right?

<str0ng> Jucato, yeah..

<grexk> yeah.

<Jucato> but I mean, why don't they provide, say, a binary for Linux? or a binary for Windows?

<str0ng> Jucato, mawawala yung essence na.. "write once.. run anywhere" heheeh

<RaymondX> so far i can only run java through an interpreter...how can you compile them into machine code?

<str0ng> but.. jvm nowadays is getting better..

<mikhail^> portability is not as important as performance.

<grexk> ganoon din naman ang python ah

<Jucato> which means, even if Java is capable of what you said, it's not done in practice...

<str0ng> RaymondX, gcj :)

<str0ng> mikhail^, well, in some cases.. yes..

<Jucato> heheh eto na naman tayo :P

* mikhail^ is too tired to bash Java, because it's already inferior in all aspects by design.

<grexk> but for me portability is very important factor

<RaymondX> aha...eclipse has a plugin for gcj!! :-D

<Jucato> different strokes for different folks

<mikhail^> grexk: c++ is portable.

<str0ng> RaymondX, yes.. it has..

<str0ng> mikhail^, yeah.. c++ is portable.. but.. u still need to hack it.. to run on another platform

<mikhail^> str0ng: wrong...

<grexk> I know but you need a framework for that to work with other platform

<str0ng> all programming languages is portable i think..

<Jucato> VB and VC++ aren't :P

<Jucato> BASIC too (maybe)

<grexk> Jucato: right

<str0ng> mikhail^, if you have a c++ app for windows.. do u think.. it will automatically work on linux?

<grexk> Jucato: but .Net is ported

<str0ng> without hacking/tweaking the code?

<grexk> str0ng: nope

<str0ng> hehehe..

<mikhail^> str0ng: if you build it using standards compliant components, and you build it with a standards compliant compiler, then of course yes.

<str0ng> thats what i mean.. _portability_

<Jucato> str0ng: but what if a Java app accesses some win32 stuff, too? wouldn't you still have to tweak the code to make it run on other platforms?

<str0ng> mikhail^, u cannot do that at all time..

<mikhail^> str0ng: wrong again.

<grexk> str0ng: maybe if your using OT, Im right Jucato?

<str0ng> sometimes, u need to use non-compliant libs in order to solve your problem. :)

<str0ng> hehehe..

<mikhail^> str0ng: wrong again.

<grexk> s/OT/Qt/

<str0ng> alright...

<Jucato> heheh

<Jucato> Boost :)

<Jucato> Qt, GTK, wxWidgets

<grexk> Jucato: yah

<grexk> and python has all of them

<Jucato> I guess the concept of portability in Java and in C++ don't exactly match 1:1

<Jucato> or rather, the implementation

<str0ng> hmm..

<str0ng> they have different design..

<str0ng> different advantages.. and disadvantages..

<Jucato> different fanboys :)

<str0ng> but.. at the end of the day.. they are still a tool.. for programmers..

<grexk> and it just the taste...

<Jucato> java tastes like coffee probably :P

<grexk> expertise is also included

<Jucato> rjian: magandang umaga

<mikhail^> bottom line: Java is slow, clunky, bulky, and crippled and will always be inferior to compiled to machine code PL's.

<rjian> Jucato: gandang umaga din.. :p

<str0ng> if we are talking about programming languages, its like we are debating religions..

* rjian still cannot access the web.. of moss

<Jucato> str0ng: also like talking about OS's, distro's, desktops, :)

<str0ng> mikhail^, well.. i dont argue with your opinion.. :) heheeheh

<mikhail^> str0ng: it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

<mikhail^> str0ng: even the designers of Java acknowledge it.

<mikhail^> str0ng: all the benchmarks say it.

<str0ng> mikhail^, i consider it as an opinion..

<Jucato> mikhail^: maybe if the java app/code was compiled with what str0ng mentioned (compile to machine code), it will be faster

<mikhail^> str0ng: and any open minded person who cares about the facts will understand it.

<str0ng> hehehe..

<grexk> Java is really slow, I agree

<mikhail^> Jucato: unless you're just embedding the interpreter.

<str0ng> yeah.. kaya nga.. i agree with mikhail^

<str0ng> but.. i consider it as an opinion

<RaymondX> damn dependencies make the download time 1hr+:-[

<Jucato> but if there's a way to compile the Java code as machine code, just like in C/C++, (without embedding the interpreter)?

<str0ng> Jucato, yes..

<Jucato> then that would make it faster, right?

<mikhail^> Jucato: unfortunately, you'll run into problems called dynamic binding and the everything in Java is dynamic implementation.

<mikhail^> str0ng: actually, no.

<str0ng> mikhail^, if we are talking about "openness" then why cant we accept that java is still one of the monster prog-language out there.. that can still solve our day to day problems :) heheeh

<mikhail^> the main language design of Java hinges around everything being dynamic.

<mikhail^> str0ng: it's just popular which doesn't make it better.

<str0ng> my point is.. they are just a tool..

<mikhail^> str0ng: VB is popular and it's terribly crippled compared to C

<str0ng> i know c++ too..

<Jucato> str0ng: for some, it's a religion too :P

<mikhail^> I don't understand why you think I'm airing my opinion when everything I've been saying is verifiable and true...

<str0ng> no need debating about it.. or comparing it.. coz.. they are two different animals.. :)

<mikhail^> I know C++ is not for everyone

<mikhail^> Now _that_ statement is an opinion

<mikhail^> Pero saying that Java is slow is an opinion is... strange.

<str0ng> mikhail^, i agree all what u've said.. and i respect it.. but.. same way.. u need to respect also mine..

<str0ng> well.. thats what i find it..

<Jucato> (it's also a fact, in the sense that not everyone really uses C++, specially non-programmers... pero namimilosopo lang ako)

<grexk> Jucato: python and kde lang da best? hekhekhek

<Raymond1> ...

<Jucato> C++ -> Qt -> KDE -> World Domination!!

<grexk> python pde pa kahit calculator lang ang alam gamitin

<Raymond1> waaaa someone's hacking me!!!!

<str0ng> if.. c++ is ure best pet.. coz it can do.. lahat nang gusto mong ipagawa.. then.. ganun din ako..

<grexk> s/alam/alam mong/

<Jucato> (at konting side trip sa python, in honor of Ubuntu's infatuation with python)

<Raymond1> please help

<mikhail^> Jucato: it's a fact as a matter of induction, and only for a subset. :D

<grexk> Jucato: hehehe

<str0ng> u dont need to insist.. na maganda yong pet mo.. kasi.. alam ko naman nang lahat.. na magaling ang pet mo

<str0ng> thats my point

<Jucato> let's disagree to agree :)

<mikhail^> str0ng: pet?

<Jucato> er.. mali.. baliktad

<str0ng> yeah..

<str0ng> mikhail^, i consider computer as a pet..

<mikhail^> what does a pet have to do with programming languages

<str0ng> dont tell me.. disagree ka nanaman dyan?

<str0ng> hahaha..

<str0ng> anyway..

<Raymond1> cc

<Jucato> lol

<str0ng> i think.. u misunderstood me..

<Jucato> mikhail^: analogy

<str0ng> im just making an analogy..

<str0ng> para madali nating maintindihan..

<mikhail^> the analogy doesn't make sense.

<str0ng> yest it is..

<grexk> Jucato: ano tau dito sa debate? pasaway? hekhekhek

<Raymond1> .........................................

<Jucato> grexk: audience. pacman vs. morales

<mikhail^> a programming language is a tool, much like how a human language is a tool to communicate

<grexk> hehe

<mikhail^> how can a programming language be a pet?

<str0ng> mikhail^, i agree.. thats what ive said a while ago.. heheeh

<str0ng> hehehe..

<str0ng> parang di na tayo nagkaka intindihan...

<grexk> parang ganyan lang ito: c++ vs java, perl vs python, php vs ruby on rails.... hekhek

<mikhail^> str0ng: I do both C++ and Java. I've learned Java before doing C++. That was 10 years ago.

<str0ng> mikhail^, well.. good on you.. :)

<mikhail^> str0ng: I know what I'm saying when I say that Java is Slow.

<Jucato> ubuntu vs. kubuntu? :)

<grexk> wag mo ng isali .Net kasi di free

<str0ng> mikhail^, di naman ako nag di-disagree sa lahat nang sinasabi mo

<grexk> hekhek

<mikhail^> str0ng: I didn't say C++ is better than Java, I said Java is slow and will not beat other programming languages that compile to machine code.

<str0ng> scroll up nga natin.. kong nag dis agree ba ako sa statement na yan..

<grexk> Jucato: ubuntu vs fedora na lang

<Jucato> oh sige

<mikhail^> str0ng: you challenged the being fact of that statement by calling it an opinion.

<mikhail^> str0ng: that's how you disagree with it.

<grexk> ubuntu is one of the best desktop compared to fedora, but ubuntu lacks xen and selinux?

<Jucato> grexk: wala akong alam sa fedora bwahahaha

<str0ng> mikhail^, if thats what u understand.. i still respect it.. heeheh

<grexk> yikes, ako rin slashdot lang

<str0ng> mikhail^, pero.. parang.. nawawala yung open source principle natin dito na.. _openness"

<str0ng> parang.. may martial law yata dito..

<str0ng> heheheeh..

<mikhail^> str0ng: open source principle?

<mikhail^> str0ng: openness?

<str0ng> mikhail^, yes.. openness

<mikhail^> I don't know what you're talking about...

<str0ng> to respect others opinion..

<mikhail^> we've been openly discussing

<str0ng> thats what im talking about..

<mikhail^> so what's not open about this discussion?

<str0ng> mikhail^, yeah.. but u insisting that all what you are saying is _true_ thats is not always the case..

<mikhail^> str0ng: then prove me wrong.

<Alter-Ego> ubuntu is a cia variant :-)

<Alter-Ego> heh heh heh

<str0ng> hehehe..

<Jucato> ganda pala window decoration ng suse bwahahah

<grexk> cia?

<str0ng> i dont need to prove it..

<grexk> Jucato: talaga I agree

<str0ng> coz.. i respect lahat nang sinasabi mo..

<grexk> meron na rin sila Visual Studio included

<grexk> hekhek

<mikhail^> str0ng: now that doesn't make sense. you disagree that it's not always the case, and then you don't bother proving me wrong.

<str0ng> and di mo lang matanggap.. na para sa akin.. _opinion_ lang yun.. eh.. wala ka nang magagawa.. kong para sa akin opinion lang yan..

<str0ng> nagpapakita lang na.. di mo nirerespeto yung iba..

<Jucato> er.. tama na kaya to... baka magkapatayan...

<mikhail^> str0ng: you _earn_ respect.

<mikhail^> str0ng: please earn my respect by proving me wrong, or at least making a valid point. :)

<str0ng> kaya nga.. i respect lahat ang sinasabi mo kanina..

<mikhail^> str0ng: instead of saying that what I've said is just "opinion".

<str0ng> di naman ako nag dis agree

<str0ng> but.. i also have a right.. call it an opinion

<mikhail^> str0ng: I'm not challenging your right.

<grexk> Jucato: sinakayan natin kasi...

<grexk> hehehe

<str0ng> mikhail^, likewise.. im not challenging anyone either

<str0ng> i am just giving also my opinion..

<mikhail^> str0ng: But I was challenging your argument on portability.

<str0ng> what about portability?

<grexk> Jucato: ano ba gamit mo ring PL?

<Jucato> ssshhh C++ :P

<Jucato> grexk: nag-aaral pa lang actually hehehe

<mikhail^> str0ng: Which went on and on about C++ not being portable.

<str0ng> wala akong sinabi.. na c++ isnt portable..

<Jucato> uy... may recap tayo ng fight :)

<str0ng> sabi ko nga.. halos lahat nang pl portable.. but.. my point is.. u still need to hack the code in order for it to be portable

<grexk> Jucato: nagarral na ko nya pero mahirap lang talaga? gaya rin ng Java

<str0ng> my argument about Java is.. right once.. run anywhere.. which is in my opinion.. wala sa ibang PL

<mikhail^> str0ng: aha, but your rhetorical (or not so rhetorical) question about a C++ win32 app readily working in Linux is already a challenge to the portability of C++.

<mikhail^> str0ng: actually, meron sa ibang PL nun: C# at Smalltalk

<Jucato> grexk: lahat naman may learning curve (except python at basic siguro). just needs time, effort, and perseverance...

<mikhail^> str0ng: meron pang LISP which is write once run everywhere that runs a LISP interpreter

<Jucato> grexk: kahapon nga nagkandahilo-hilo ako sa crash course ko on C pointers.. @_@

<str0ng> then.. why we are still bothering to port some apps to and from another platform it that is the case?

<mikhail^> str0ng: ganun din ang PERL

<mikhail^> str0ng: because some people _want to_ and _can_.

<grexk> Jucato: lalo pag dating mo sa classes ng C++...

<Jucato> at templates...

<str0ng> well.. to those people like you..

<mikhail^> str0ng: people like me? like what?

<grexk> Jucato: yan ang di ko maintindihan templates

<str0ng> people.. can...

<str0ng> <mikhail^> str0ng: because some people _want to_ and _can_. <---- im referring to this statement

<Jucato> grexk: nung nagsimula ako magbasa about C++ (may konting background in C) way back pre-2000, hindi pa masyadong uso yung templates...

<Jucato> or wala pa sa mga libro na mabibili mo sa national bookstore :P

* mikhail^ reiterates: if you write standards compliant C++, you can run it in a platform where your code compiles.

<mikhail^> str0ng: you were asking why people bothered porting applications, and the answer is because they want to and that they can.

<mikhail^> str0ng: they certainly don't _need_ to

<str0ng> mikhail^, for me.. that is not always the case.. coz.. some problem need to have some non compliant libs in order to solve some particular problem..

<mikhail^> str0ng: what's not always the case, that you have non-standard C++ code?

<str0ng> i just cant get it.. what if.. you use.. win32 libs.. and want to run it on linux.. is it possible?

<mikhail^> str0ng: which win32 libs are you using?

<str0ng> well.. any win32 libs

<str0ng> just an example scenario..

<str0ng> what if.. that is the case? is it possible to run it on linux automatically?

<mikhail^> str0ng: if your code works with the standard C++ library in win32 then you can compile your code against the standard C++ library in Linux

<str0ng> what if.. di sya standard c++ library?

<grexk> Jucato: ako noong nagsimula akong maglinux? mga hoary/breezy days

<mikhail^> str0ng: of course, like in Java, if you start using non-standard and _platform specific_ API's, then you're screwed.

<Jucato> ako breezy din nag start. January 2006

* mikhail^ started with Slackware 7.0 circa 2002

<grexk> Jucato: kaya rin ako ng ubuntu kasi mas updated yung mga libs nila eh

<grexk> compared to debian.

<mikhail^> str0ng: much like in any PL where you use platform specific stuff, then you'd be screwed.

<mikhail^> str0ng: but if you stuck with standards compliant code (like POSIX, ISO, ANSI standards) then you have portable code. Simple as that.

<str0ng> ah ok..

<grexk> I never heard of those POSIX, ISO, ANSI standards when I was still using windows.

<Jucato> grexk: pero ano kayang distro yung pwede kang mag-install lagi ng latest releases, kahit na after the distro's stable release?

<grexk> gentoo...

<mikhail^> grexk: there's a POSIX compliant threading lib in Windows.

<mikhail^> grexk: ISO standard C++ has been around since 1998

<Jucato> ANSI in 1991, iirc

<Jucato> or was that ANSI C...

<grexk> Sabi ko po sa linux ko lang nalaman yung mga standards na yan

<mikhail^> grexk: and ANSI has defined most of the standards in the platforms before the ISO started taking over.

<grexk> in programming kasi ala naman ata sa VB yan eh

<Jucato> heheh hindi uso ang "standard" sa Windows. labo labo lang. j/k

<str0ng> MS has its own standards.... heheeh

<grexk> Jucato: and that definitely defeats the security of windows

<mikhail^> grexk: either you were not paying attention to the standards, or weren't using any standard technologies. :D

<str0ng> wala akong narinig na ituro sa school na _standards_ during my days.. :(

<mikhail^> grexk: VB is _not_ standard, so that's understandable. :)

<grexk> hehehe

<mikhail^> Actually...

<mikhail^> MS has been influential in the standardization of C++

<str0ng> ang tinuro lang nila.. "sige.. mag program kayo nang mag program" heeheh

<mikhail^> And XML

<mikhail^> SOAP was an abomination that MS propagated and implemented first

<grexk> mikhail: J++ and VC++

<grexk> ?

<str0ng> j++ is that the one.. that is MS implementation of Java?

<mikhail^> Visual C++ has a lot of extensions that are MS only

<grexk> vbscript to javascript either

<mikhail^> But, the MSVC compiler is standards compliant

<grexk> but those things suck so they created .NEt?

<mikhail^> Note: only since 7.1

<mikhail^> str0ng: J++ is an attempt to make money off of Java's initial wave of popularity

<grexk> to compete with the Java SDK?

* str0ng started my linux days during RH7/ dun ko lang nalaman yung mga standards.. hehehe

<mikhail^> grexk: .NET is more a step above Java

<mikhail^> grexk: It's hinged on an SOA

<grexk> str0ng: sabi ko nga sa linux ko lang nalaman yung mga compliant codes and portability.

<mikhail^> grexk: thinking about components as services

* str0ng kakulangan seguro yan sa nag tuturo.. not emphasizing those standards..

<mikhail^> str0ng: konti pa rin lang naman standards nung panahon ng RH7/Slack7

<grexk> hindi naman kasi vb lang naman alam nilang ituro eh

<mikhail^> str0ng: pero ang meron na nun were standards sa PL

<mikhail^> str0ng: like sa C

<mikhail^> str0ng: and C++

<str0ng> mikhail^, but.. ansi C is been around before rh7 right?

<str0ng> ah ok..

<mikhail^> str0ng: yup. C is as old if not older than UNIX

<str0ng> baka di rin alam nung teacher ko yung mga standards :(

<Jucato> UNIX and C grew together, right?

<grexk> Unix is created in C?

<mikhail^> yup, UNIX and C are intimately tied together

<mikhail^> kasi UNIX and C were written pretty much by the same people from AT&T

<grexk> by the creator C? sino na ba yun?

<grexk> Denise Retchie?

<Jucato> C was developed for UNIX, UNIX was made from C

<str0ng> D. ritchie

<Jucato> Ritchie and Kenningham

<Jucato> rawr

<Jucato> wrong ispelling

<str0ng> and.. ken

<grexk> Din c++ kay bjourne ...... di ko alam basahin apelyido nya... hekhek

<Jucato> Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie

<Jucato> Bjourne Stroustrup

<mikhail^> Bjarne Stroustrup

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> mali pa rin

<grexk> di ko rin magbikas pangalan nya

<mikhail^> Bjarne also worked in AT&T

<mikhail^> :)

<grexk> hekhek

<str0ng> _es_tros_trap_ <---- this is the way i read it.. heheeh

<Jucato> buti pa si Linus, dali i-spell ng pangalan

<mikhail^> Sino, si Linux Torvalds? hahahahaha

<grexk> tapos Java came

<grexk> because of C++?

<mikhail^> grexk: actually, not directly. Java came as a product of a failed experiment by Sun

<Jucato> sabi dun sa Thinking in C, Java was based more on C than on C++

<mikhail^> grexk: they wanted to put Java in embedded devices

<str0ng> failed _oak_

<mikhail^> grexk: so they created a VM which ran on different machines/platforms

<grexk> yup

<grexk> computer history nga naman...

<mikhail^> Jucato: I don't know about that... They got the OO concepts by condensing C++ OO implementation.

<str0ng> who knows.. may grexk++ in the future.. :) heheeh

<Jucato> mikhail^: hehe I was just repeating what I heard from the Thinking in C audio course

<grexk> pansin ko lang mga bagong language is less code..

<str0ng> grexk++ based on python, and c++ .. _code less.. run more_ heheeh

<str0ng> codeless pala heheheeh

<mikhail^> Jucato: siguro sa constructs, pwede... pero pagdating sa OO, Smalltalk yung pinakamalapit -- and ang itsura very much C++

<grexk> str0ng: nakakita na rin ako ng code ng ruby and konti lang and coding.

<Jucato> I guess so. I haven't looked at any Java code really

<grexk> Jucato: Java codes are really well tested...

<str0ng> Jucato, wag ka nalang mag attempt.. lalo ka lang ma discourage kong makita mo yung mga Java codes heheeh

<grexk> hehe

-butiki- +News from slashdot: Egypt Arrests More Bloggers

<str0ng> very strict ang Java..

<str0ng> S != s

<grexk> strong and mikhail: Java is very strict with its code unlike C++?

<Jucato> C/C++ is also very case sensitive

<Jucato> which is not surprising, since UNIX is case sensitive

<grexk> most the design principles are coming from Java?

<str0ng> dapat.. yung filename mo.. same sa class name mo..

<mikhail^> grexk: they're both strict kasi merong static syntax. Iba lang ang bindings nila, kasi Java is more dynamic binding while C++ is more static binding.

<grexk> s/most/most of the

<grexk> which other PL adapt like php/perl/python

<mikhail^> grexk: kung strictness lang, mas strict ang C++ at mas anal yung standards kaysa sa Java. Pero shempre, konti rin lang kasi ang kaya mo gawin sa Java by design.

<grexk> even ajax

<Jucato> ok... time for my drawing class :)

<grexk> afk mo na

<Jucato> huh?

<Alter-Ego> Jucato you draw ?

<grexk> away from keyboard? Jucato di ka siguro naglaro ng ragna?

<Jucato> Alter-Ego: yeah, sometimes. :)

<Jucato> grexk: adik kaya ako dyan. I meant, "afk mo na" or "afk muna"?

<Alter-Ego> do you use a drawing tablet ?

<Alter-Ego> such as wacom ?

<grexk> mistype lang

<Jucato> Alter-Ego: nope. hand drawn, tapos scan

<Jucato> grexk: ah. so you meant "afk muna"? /gg

<grexk> /heh

<Alter-Ego> i stumbled across a program called artrage

<Jucato> /e 4

<Alter-Ego> nice computer paint program, mouse works ok.

<Jucato> grexk: I think I spent/wasted more than Php 2000-3000 on RO

<Jucato> Alter-Ego: on Linux?

<Alter-Ego> leaves a bit to be disred, only works in xp, i have seen someone that has gotten it to work in *buntu, but i have not ebeen able

<Alter-Ego> really nice natural program however

<Jucato> Krita is aiming to be a professional painting program btw. more than an image editor (unlike the GIMP)

<Alter-Ego> yes, i have used krita, nothing like artrage.

<Alter-Ego> artrage surpasses painter or adobe in natural painting

<Jucato> hm.. maybe I'll take a look at it when/if I boot into XP

<grexk> Jucato: KDE kasi....huhuhu

<Jucato> heheh

<Jucato> laking tuwa ko nang gumana yung HP PSC (printer/scanner/copier) namin sa Linux ootb! yay!

* grexk Jucato is really an Kubuntu advocate

<Jucato> (kaso wala naman akong artwork na kelangan i-scan ngayon...)

<Jucato> advocate, not fanatic...

<Jucato> pero bordering on fanboy lol

<Jucato> pero "I don't hate GNOME. I just don't like it" :P

<Alter-Ego> i am a kde fanatic

<Jucato> hehe

<Jucato> grrr! I need a longer table...

* mikhail^ is away: eating.

* str0ng im back

<Jucato> wb

<str0ng> ty :)

<Jucato> str0ng: you really are strong :)

<str0ng> ngeks..

<Jucato> strong and patient :)

<str0ng> hahaha..

<str0ng> hmm.. ganun naman talaga seguro.. lalo na if your on this field(computer) your dealing with machines.. and that needs patience :)

<Jucato> dealing with people requires more patience :)

<str0ng> Jucato, well, yeah.. but at least yung tao.. may feelings heheeh

<grexk> str0ng and Jucato: sa linux kailangan talaga patience at patient unlike windows. harhar

<str0ng> hahaha

<Jucato> heh mas marami akong naubos na patience sa windows :P

<grexk> Jucato: patient sa Kubuntu irc?

<grexk> harharhar

<Jucato> lol oo

<Jucato> ang hirap umintindi ng iba't ibang klase ng "english"

<grexk> at hirap magenglish

<Jucato> buti na lang ok english ko. ilang beses na napuri bwahaha!

<grexk> hekhekhek

<grexk> wow, congrats

* str0ng <---- maliit ang grades sa english :(

<Jucato> nagbuhat ng sariling upuan bwaahaha

<Alter-Ego> intersting, but not fully developed

<grexk> huh?

<Jucato> yay drawing class over. time for recess! hehehe

<Alter-Ego> grexk ktts

<Alter-Ego> not fully developed

<Alter-Ego> i am hearing left bracket, rightbracket, etc.

<Alter-Ego> nm, wrong channel

<Jucato> heh

<Jucato> brb.. merienda lang hehehe

<nocti> .

<rjian> Jucato: sira ba ang YM?

<Jucato> rjian: hindi naman

<rjian> Jucato: ah ok d kasi me makapasok ewan ko kung bkit.. kakainis tlga ang smart..

<Jucato> rjian: o ayan online ka na sa YM

<mikhail^> rjian: are you behind a router that you control?

* rjian hay salamat

<rjian> mikhail^: ive already check the cpanel d me nakablock.. my deperensiya tlga ang smart..

<Jucato> rjian: you're able to access moss.orgz.ph already?

<mikhail^> rjian: hmmm... do you have a router in between your machine and the SMART provided router/modem ?

<mikhail^> or a proxy?

<mikhail^> or direct nakaconnect yung computer mo sa SMART router?

<mangz74> jucato!

<Jucato> mangz74: ayun!!! hello po!!

<mangz74> hehehe

<mangz74> have u checked the ubuntu-forums?

<Jucato> ubuntu-ph.org you mean?

<Jucato> yes I've seen Partido Kubuntu. haven't posted yet

<Jucato> I will do so tonight :)

<mangz74> alrights!

<mangz74> hehehe

<mangz74> napansin ko lang walang ibang sumagot

<mangz74> :(

<Jucato> sowee. medyo naging busy ako these past days

<mangz74> hahahah

<mangz74> okies lang

<Jucato> pero I was so happy na meron nang sub-section...

<Jucato> about "walang ibang sumagot", what do you expect from a very low-traffic site? hehehe

<mangz74> kaya nga nilagyan ko ng subforum...ako lang ang naglagay noon

<mangz74> :)

<mangz74> i have the power! he-man!

<mangz74> lol

<Jucato> lol. nagpaalam ka kay kuya jerome? bwahaha

<mangz74> hey...binigyan nya ako ng access...i hope he trusts me enough i won't do something stupid

<mangz74> :)

<Jucato> you just did. bwhehehe j/k

<mangz74> i also posted something up

<mangz74> :)

<mangz74> nice sana kung active ang forums

<Jucato> just right now?

<mangz74> kaya nga i make it a point now to respond to new messages in there

<Jucato> ok, let's populate the forum. I'll *try* again...

<mangz74> hahahha

<mangz74> baka ang mangyari din naman...ikaw at ako na lang din

<mangz74> hahaha

<Jucato> well, it might be a start. who knows :)

<mangz74> yeah

<zakame> of course, you won't do something stupid ;)

<mangz74> hahhaa

* mangz74 is scared of being beaten up

<mangz74> LOL

* Jucato sighs...

<mangz74> now jucato..your move...lets make the page and the forum active...dang ...the visual and web representation of our group

<mangz74> i mean thats the visual...

<mangz74> hahaha

<Jucato> hehe ok I'll post something tonight :)

<mangz74> promise?

<mangz74> cross your heart?

<mangz74> peks man?

<Jucato> lol yeah

<Jucato> cross my heart, hope to segfault

<mangz74> dang...i can hear our neighbors upstairs on his bathroom

<Jucato> singing? or doing something else?

<mangz74> i hate apartment living

<mangz74> hahaha

<mangz74> i think he is taking a shower

<mangz74> apartment living

<zakame> http://www.elitegeneration.com/b/storage/1163650111589.gif

<zakame> http://www.elitegeneration.com/b/storage/1163640787879.gif

<Jucato> lol

<mangz74> hehehe

<zakame> zidane never goes out of fashion

<mangz74> finally got syncing working on my pda->kubutu

<mangz74> kubuntu pala

<Jucato> oooh?

<Jucato> nice!

<mangz74> yeah

<Jucato> wish I could do that on my 6600... some other time maybe

<mangz74> not much use though

<mangz74> lol

<mangz74> hahaha

<mangz74> i could only browse the pda filesystem by using konqueror

<mangz74> install cab files

<Jucato> ah. kala ko sync with Kontact na

<mangz74> mirror pda screen

<Jucato> ooh nice

<Jucato> inggit tuloy ako :)

<mangz74> sync with pda and kontact still in the work

<Jucato> bah. I need a bluetooth before I can browse my phone filesystem from the PC

-butiki- +News from slashdot: Novell Responds to Microsoft's IP Claims

<mangz74> lemme try to install something using this

<mangz74> then i'll post a howto somewhere :)

<mangz74> lol

<Jucato> hehe

* Jucato can't decide which flavor of tuna to eat for lunch...

<mangz74> haha

<mangz74> adobo

<Jucato> yeah favorite ko yun

<Jucato> both pork adobo and tuna adobo... (ayoko lang chicken pork adobo na mas marami ang chicken)

<Jucato> ok time for lunch. brb in 30 mins :)

<mangz74> ok..cya in a while

<koppernet> hello

<koppernet> :)

<Adames> hello

<mangz74> heythere

<Adames> musta mangz?

<zakame> http://dat.2chan.net/23/src/1163976546879e90a.jpg take that you sand monster

<zakame> http://dat.2chan.net/23/src/11640354451398979.jpg and this!

<Adames> hey zakame :)

<zakame> yo Adames

<str0ng> gud pm..

<str0ng> zakame,

<zakame> yo str0ng

<str0ng> i got two zombies running.. and i try to kill them, but doesnt work

<zakame> get a soul cube and throwit at them

<rjian> hello zakame

<zakame> or hack them with a chainsaw

<str0ng> ngeks..

<zakame> hmm, the won't diw even with a kill -9?

<zakame> *die

<str0ng> yes..

<str0ng> :(

<zakame> reboot then, its often the easiest and safet way

<zakame> *safest

<zakame> yo rjian

<str0ng> hmmm alright..

<str0ng> strange

<zakame> still there?

<str0ng> yeah.. after rebooting..

<str0ng> process name is.. _python

<str0ng> python

<zakame> what the ps axf look like?

<str0ng> strong@strong:~$ ps aux|grep python

<str0ng> hplip 4031 0.0 0.6 9668 4852 ? S 12:51 0:00 python /usr/sbin/hpssd

<str0ng> strong 5171 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Z 12:52 0:00 [python] <defunct>

<str0ng> the one with "Z"

<Jucato> burp

<str0ng> wb

<Jucato> hehe thanks. :)

<Jucato> zombie's still running?

<str0ng> yes..

<Jucato> :(

* Jucato casts a level 1 Turn Undead

* grexk apt-get remove --purge python

<str0ng> hmmm..

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> apt-get install g++ :P

<grexk> lol

* grexk apt-get install visualbasic

<Jucato> sudo apt-get purge sun-java5-jdk sun-java5-jre

<grexk> str0ng: ok na?

<Jucato> :P

<Jucato> brb... biglang sumakit tiyan ko

<grexk> lol

<grexk> ako ninong?

<Jucato> lol

<str0ng> baka manganganak na si Jucato

<grexk> sabi ko nga

<grexk> st0ng: kapag di pa rin naalis kumuha ka na lang ng Holy Water tapos buhos mo sa PC mo.

<grexk> harharhar

<Jucato> bwahaha

<Jucato> Aqua Benedicta!

<Jucato> Magnus... Exorcisimus!

<zakame> get john, john constantine

<Jucato> lol

<grexk> hehehe

<Jucato> hindi ata umepekto ang Ragnarok Online skills ko eh

<grexk> anong movie na nga ba yan?

<Jucato> "Constantine"

<grexk> di kasi 3d eh...

<zakame> deadpool looks at teh zombie http://wtfux.org/random/src/1163724486358.jpg

<grexk> str0ng: anong nangyari?

<str0ng> same pa rin.. it refuses to be killed

<str0ng> hehehe

<str0ng> 4477 ? Z 0:00 \_ [python] <defunct>

<grexk> na purge na ba?

<str0ng> nope..

<str0ng> teka..

<str0ng> ano nga ba yung command?

<grexk> apt-get remove --purge python din install mo ulit parang windows..hehehe

<str0ng> ah ok.. teka..

<Jucato> sudo killall <processname>?

<zakame> or pkill python

<grexk> or jail root

<grexk> ewan ko lang kung di pa yan pumunta sa impierno

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> /dev/null ?

<grexk> hehehe

<str0ng> os[Linux 2.6.17-10-generic i686] distro[Debian testing/unstable] cpu[2 x Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.06GHz @ 3.06GHz] mem[Physical : 748MB, 70.7% free] disk[Total : 71.25GB, 39.90% Free] video[Intel Corporation Gigabit Ethernet Controller] sound[]

<grexk> server ata pc mo str0ng....

<str0ng> grexk, nope.. workstation ko to..

<grexk> sarap paglaruan

<str0ng> HP intel-xeon yung serve ko

<grexk> bakit dual cpu?

<str0ng> feature nang board

<grexk> ah ok

<grexk> asus?

<str0ng> intel

* grexk expensive

<str0ng> di naman to akin hehehe

<str0ng> sa company

<grexk> informatics right?

<str0ng> nope..

<str0ng> im just an outsource lecturer in informatics

<str0ng> im a full time programmer in a hospital

<grexk> ah akala ko GTO ka ng informatics

<Jucato> GTO? Grand Theft Oto?

<grexk> tagasan ka nga ulit cebu?

<grexk> nope?

<str0ng> GTO?

<str0ng> from Ozamiz City

<grexk> great teacher onizuka...yung anime

<Jucato> ah oo nga pala

<grexk> hahahaha

<Jucato> nawala sa isip ko yun :)

<str0ng> aw... hahaah

<str0ng> outsourced lang..

<str0ng> not a full time

<grexk> ok

<Jucato> "lang" :)

<Jucato> grexk: kaw taga saan uli?

<grexk> kano naman?

<str0ng> hehehe

<grexk> la union pero nakatira ako ngayon sa cavite. kaw san pedro right?

<Jucato> yep

<grexk> hehehe

-butiki- +News from slashdot: Students Put UCLA Taser Video on YouTube

-butiki- +News from slashdot: Michigan Teen Creates Fusion Device

<str0ng> gud pm all

<Jucato> good afternoon! :)

<str0ng> Jucato, gud pm :)

<Jucato> kainis.. wala akong napag-aralan sa C++ ngayon bwahaha

<Jucato> naka-hibernate ata utak ko ngayong hapon

* Jucato goes play with his phone for a few minutes...

<str0ng> :)

<grexk> ano strong patay na si zombie

<str0ng> di pa rin..

<str0ng> bayaan mo nalang..

<Jucato> ngek... hindi pwde i-reboot no?

<str0ng> 4441 ? Ss 0:00 \_ x-session-manager

<str0ng> 4477 ? Z 0:00 \_ [python] <defunct>

<str0ng> ayan pa rin oh..

<str0ng> ilang beses ko nang ni reboot..

<pusakat> uhm

<grexk> hmmm bat Z sa iyo akin S

<pusakat> don't worry about zombie processes

<str0ng> grexk, Z.. _zombie_

<grexk> hehehehe

<grexk> baka kulang lang tulog ahas mo

<str0ng> hehe

<Jucato> lol

<grexk> try mo rin manood ng bold sa PC mo baka magising sya

<str0ng> hehe.. walang bold dito

<grexk> kaya pala lagyan mo kahit isa lang

<str0ng> hahaha

<grexk> tapos chmod 600 mo

<grexk> hekhekhek

<grexk> bye bye

<Jucato> ayan baka pag nawala si grexk, mamamatay na yung zombie

<Jucato> :P

<pusakat> baka may nag sigkill

<schoolboy> halu!!!

<schoolboy> =)

<Jucato> halooo

<schoolboy> heya jucs =)

<schoolboy> musta

<schoolboy> im happy today! weeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<Jucato> bakt?

<schoolboy> hihihi got dc

<Jucato> ehehe

<Jucato> so bakit ka sobrang saya?

<schoolboy> i have a date next week! =) excited! =)

<schoolboy> hihihi

<schoolboy> and i solved another crackme a few hours ago

<Jucato> heheh sabi ko na nga ba, girl-related eh :P

<schoolboy> opcors opcors! =)

<schoolboy> i expected that she'll say 'no" =) ... pero she said the opposite

<schoolboy> mwahahah

<Jucato> hehe wow

-butiki- +News from slashdot: Stem Cells at The Core of Cancer?

<pusakat> wow

<ulinskie> schoolboy: sus... is she the girl with you in cagayan>?

<pusakat> geeks can have fun with girls too. hehe

<Jucato> :)

<ulinskie> schoolboy: ikaw ha.. binata ka na..

<Jucato> and geeks can be girls too :)

<Jucato> or girls can be geeks. lol

* pusakat went to an all geek school. ;)

* pusakat went to an all geek high school. ;)

* pusakat laughs.

<Jucato> and that would be...?

<schoolboy> ulinskie: ahh hinde hinde =) hihihi pero i'm planning to spend lots of time with her (girl with me in cagayan) this coming ateneo fiesta

<Jucato> PSHS?

<pusakat> Jucato, yeahp.

<Jucato> hehehe

<ulinskie> schoolboy: what... don't tell me its another girl... kala ko ba stick to one and die for many ka?

<Jucato> baka naman stick to many die for one type sya?

<schoolboy> ooh.. and that girl from cagayan help me solved the crackme today! mwahahahaha you know what she said? "xor is associative"

<ulinskie> hahahaha

<schoolboy> ulinskie: yep. stick to one me =)

<Jucato> a quote to remember... "xor is associative"

<schoolboy> math wizz yun! graveh

<ulinskie> schoolboy: yikess... di ko ma gets.. anyway... I am imagining if u too will end up together...

<schoolboy> ulinskie: she's chinese too =) hihihi very cute

<ulinskie> boy to girl: you will be the assembler of my life

<ulinskie> girl to boy: you compile me...

<ulinskie> bwahahahaha

<Jucato> lol

<ulinskie> schoolboy: sige nga.. patingin nang friendster

<schoolboy> ulinskie: waw! nice quote ah! =)

<schoolboy> i'll text her that right away =)

<pusakat> LOL

<pusakat> make

<schoolboy> ulinskie: she has no pic eh :(

<ulinskie> schoolboy: hey... what's ur email addy.. i'll add u in my friendster, para madami na akong geek friends

<ulinskie> schoolboy: ano ba yan... she's too geek... mag pa studio pic na kayo sa date nyo

<ulinskie> schoolboy: grab the chance man!

<schoolboy> yikes.. im not geek nuh. :p we're already friendsters =)

<schoolboy> ulinskie: cant. super stict parents. and she's career oriented. =)

<mikhail^> zakame:

<mikhail^> zakame: you there?

<Jucato> hi mikhail^

<mikhail^> good evening everyone. :)

<schoolboy> she wants to study robotics after graduation too

<pusakat> online but out of mind. hehe

<ulinskie> schoolboy: hmmm... talaga.. let her be

<pusakat> i wanna study AI. ;)

<ulinskie> schoolboy: pag nakita nyang u support her... +5 ka na sa kanya

<pusakat> mangz74, that was a dream.

* Jucato wonders how zakame manages to stay online...

<pusakat> Jucato, screen

<Jucato> ah

<mikhail^> ano yan, ladies talk?

<ulinskie> schoolboy: sige.. mag tayo kayo nang iskwelahan.. ako ang magmamarket

<schoolboy> ulinskie: hihihi i hope so =p

<schoolboy> pusakat: AI sounds like "3d online girl" to me always =) hihihihi

<mikhail^> pusakat: how far in AI do you want to get into?

<Jucato> hehe

<pusakat> mikhail^, that was a late 80s dream.

<pusakat> mikhail^, i don't know if i can still get into that field.

<mikhail^> pusakat: ah... I think you still can, although in a not-so-academic endeavor.

<pusakat> mikhail^, yeah... but a lot of the cool work is in the academe

<mikhail^> pusakat: there are still a lot of areas of development in terms of AI, more on the applications of concepts.

<mikhail^> pusakat: stuff like using Neural Networks for expert decision support systems

<pusakat> mikhail^, yeah.

<pusakat> maybe when i have more time, i can dabble in it again.

<mikhail^> pusakat: it's getting easier and easier by the day, with all the programming languages and libraries coming out for statistics and mathematics

<schoolboy> waw "dabble"... my first time to hear that word..

<mikhail^> after all, AI is more math than anything else

<Jucato> I've always heard that word

<Jucato> usually together with words like "magic" or "witchcraft" or "occult"

<schoolboy> Jucato: really really? hmmm what does it mean anyway?

<mikhail^> Dabble? hindi ba ibig sabihin nun ay dinalawa? I will dabble your maney?

<ulinskie> schoolboy: pwede tuh kambya from one field to the other

<Jucato> lol

<mikhail^> :D

<ulinskie> mikhail^: corny ha

<ulinskie> psst

<ulinskie> me joke ako

<ulinskie> use foss in a sentence... baka corny pero sige na lang

<schoolboy> sige sirit =)

<Jucato> dabble: to try, to "dip" into something, "the very "foundation" of science itself is based on a premise that goes something like "I've never seen a black" (Google)

<schoolboy> hmm.. what field iyo kambya.. hihihi i do stuffs mostly out of hobby lang eh.. =((

<Jucato> oops wrong paste

<Jucato> dabble: work with in an amateurish manner;

<Jucato> grr.. hate it when it does that...

<mikhail^> ulinskie: foss, sekon, turd, ...

<mikhail^> :D

<schoolboy> Jucato: ahh ic ic. i'll use it tommorrow when i talk to a girl :)

<Jucato> lol

<mikhail^> lakas tama si schoolboy ah

<schoolboy> it sounds cool eh..

<schoolboy> hihih

<ulinskie> use foss in a sentence na

<pusakat> schoolboy probably wants to dabble with that girl.

<pusakat> hehe

<mikhail^> wahahaha

<schoolboy> pusakat: sounds dirty. =) hihihihi

<pusakat> schoolboy, just make sure you wash and wear protective gear. hehe

<Jucato> ulinskie: paano po?

<schoolboy> yep! SOP. =)

<ulinskie> schoolboy: who is considered as the zorro of philippine linux users group?

<ulinskie> hey I want answers

<schoolboy> ulinskie: waw! waw! trivia... hmmm let me see

<schoolboy> well, i only know a couple of people who are members of PLUG... ealden? :p

<pusakat> how the hell did he get to be zorro?

<schoolboy> hihihi

<ulinskie> bwahahaha

<ulinskie> sirit na

<ulinskie> ?

<schoolboy> sige sirit =)

<ulinskie> be out in awhile

<ulinskie> Jucato: psst ikaw

<ulinskie> Jucato: guess guess

<Jucato> wala po akong kilala sa PLUG eh.. :(

<Jucato> present company not included of course

<ulinskie> o sge...

<ulinskie> wala na

<ulinskie> ?

<ulinskie> going..

<ulinskie> going...

<schoolboy> sirit sirit =)

<ulinskie> e di si FOSSakat !!!!!

<ulinskie> bwahahahahah

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> roflmao

<Jucato> ok tapos na akong tumawa :P

<schoolboy> hehehe

<schoolboy> okey =)

<ulinskie> hehehe..

<ulinskie> korny eh...

<ulinskie> but I like it anyway....

<schoolboy> hihihi

<schoolboy> brb.. dinner! weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee =)

<pusakat> bakit zorro?

<ulinskie> pusakat: diba ur legendary na

<ulinskie> hehehe

<pusakat> ano ako, pokémon?

<mikhail^> pusakat: how do you do dat?

<pusakat> pika, pika...

<mikhail^> the e in your pokemon is pretty

<pusakat> mikhaîl, it's just a US intl keyboard setting in gnome.

<mikhail^> pusakat: hmmm... I don't understand

* mikhail^ has no idea about locale's

<Jucato> pokémon? mamaya pang 7:30 un

<Jucato> pusakat: the legendary cat pokemon?

<pusakat> mikhail^, you running gnome?

<mikhail^> pusakat: yes, I'm running gnome

* mikhail^ don't know how to make pretty e :(

<pusakat> in System/Preferences/Keyboard

<pusakat> click on the Layout tab

<pusakat> then [Add] U.S. English Alternative international

<pusakat> Move it up

<pusakat> then Close

<pusakat> your ' key will act weird after that.

<pusakat> if you type ' followed by a character that can be accented, it will do it, like só.

<pusakat> for it to appear normally, type ' followed by a space.

<pusakat> same with other accent marks.

<pusakat> ö

<mikhail^> so you mean the keystrokes get reinterpreted?

<pusakat> yes.

<mikhail^> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, funky stuff! :D

<mikhail^> lemme try...

<mikhail^> Los Baños, Laguna! :D

<mikhail^> w00t!

<mikhail^> Ang galing galing! :D

<mikhail^> I learned something new today! :D

<mikhail^> I can now write resumè or resumé :D

<mikhail^> How do you do the o with a slash ?

<mikhail^> As in Bjorne ?

<mikhail^> Enough fun, I'll go work on C++ again. :)

<Jucato> how did you do the "enye"?

<Jucato> ñ

<Jucato> oh nvm :)

<Jucato> ツ

<Jucato> thanks pusakat and mikhail^! I finally figured out how to do it in KDE.

<pusakat> Bjôrne?

<pusakat> or Björne?

<Jucato> heheh

<Jucato> something new for me to play with (and get used to...)

<pusakat> mas-komplikado pa kung Japanese

<pusakat> Jucato, how'd you make the smiley?

<Jucato> jp layout, letter z

<pusakat> ah... jp layout

<pusakat> hehe

<Jucato> ツ

<Jucato> pusakat: if I press ´ twice, it´s the same as pressing space after ´ (on KDE)

<pusakat> Jucato, oh... the keyboard layouts aren't GUI specific... they can work on console too, so they're pretty standard.

<Jucato> ah nice

<pusakat> it's displaying the characters that gets tricky on console if it isn't in utf mode.

<Jucato> ´ (2x) == ´<space>

<pusakat> or some other charset coding that doesn't support the accented chars.

<Jucato> ツ <--- displays in Konsole hehehe

<Jucato> I learned something tonight, thank you kuya pusakat!! ツ

<pusakat> glad you learned something.

<Jucato> I´ve been trying for months to find out how to easily do ñ... ツ

<Jucato> now I just need to get used to pressing some keys twice :)

<Jucato> dinner time... brb :)

<pusakat> you can always shift the keyboard layout to the normal mode.

<irvin> cpanel sucks

<irvin> anong agenda sa meeting?

-butiki- +News from slashdot: The Wii Disassembled

<pusakat> Jucato, ´ is different from '.

<pusakat> ´ (' 2x) is not ' ('<space>)

<pusakat> just like ¨ (" 2x) is not " ("<space>)

<godiane> !seen curiouscat

<butiki> godiane: curiouscat was last seen in #ubuntu-ph 19 hours, 47 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <CuriousCat> bye all!

<godiane> waaah

<Jucato> pusakat: oo nga no? heheh I presumed too much :)

<Jucato> brb :)

<Jucato> kuya nocti, nocti_ hehehe ;)

<nocti_> hey Jucato

<Jucato> doble doble?

<nocti_> bkit kaya may nocti

<nocti_> ay ghost ko yan hehe

<Jucato> wee kanina may zombie problem si str0ng, ngayon ghost naman

<nocti_> nag crash kasi xp naiwan sya sa ere hehe

-butiki- +News from slashdot: Free Geek Robbed

<Jucato> nag crash XP? what's new? lol :)

<Jucato> ツ

<nocti_> hehe parang horror film na kami

<Jucato> ah tapos kanina sa kubuntu-offtopic may discussion naman about daemons and demons :)

<Jucato> ayos

<nocti_> hehe onga

<nocti_> hey i got another ebook site :)

<nocti_> wait

<nocti_> heh

<nocti_> edgy ka na ba?

<Jucato> yep yep

<nocti_> ah oks

<nocti_> dapper pa din ako, i plan on upgrading to gentoo this weekend, old habits die hard

<Jucato> salamat po pala sa mga links nyo. I ended up using a free (as in beer) C++ book after all bwahaha

<Jucato> pero yung edgy ko pala, unconventional edgy

<nocti_> hehe

<nocti_> oo dami ebooks basta computing

<nocti_> http://read.forumsplace.com/

<Jucato> hehehe :)

<Jucato> ssshh... logged ang channel :)

<nocti_> ah.. hope their asleep

<Jucato> hehehe

<mangz74> jucato

<mangz74> :)

<Jucato> mangz74! good morning

<nocti_> Jucato: hows your cpp coding?

<Jucato> maya-maya lang magsusulat na ako sa partido :)

<Jucato> nocti_: chapter 1 pa lang hehehe

<Jucato> kasi last week, nag crash course ako sa C, required dun sa librong binabasa ko

<nocti_> ah

<Jucato> good evening ate ulinskie

<mangz74> did they change the date of the meeting?

<mangz74> mm...

<ulinskie> heya there

<mangz74> i must be dreaming...thats the date i posted on the site

<mangz74> nag aaral ka ng c coding jucato?

<Jucato> mangz74: they didn't change the date

<Jucato> nag aaral ng C++ po

*** nocti_ is now known as nocti

<mangz74> oh good

<Jucato> C++ -> Qt -> KDE -> World Domination

<mangz74> heheheh

<mangz74> I did take take that in school here

<mangz74> C++

<mangz74> hahahha

<mangz74> so maybe i should study qt

<Jucato> yes yes.. Qt.. Qt.. pronounced as "cute" :)

<nocti> is audacious available in edgy repos? or external repos pa rin?

<nocti> external sa dapper e

<mangz74> i really need to review my c++ though

<mangz74> even though i got an A

<mangz74> LOL

<Jucato> audacious?

<nocti> xmms/bmp -like audio player. gentoo has it for 2 years now.

<nocti> ah lipat na lng talaga ako

<Jucato> ah

<Jucato> nope. still not in Ubuntu

<nocti> ok

<Jucato> brb.. mom's here

<nocti> oh. hi Jucato's mom hehe

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> I meant, she arrived

<nocti> ah ok :) kala ko laro tux-racer

<nocti> jk :)

<mangz74> hi jucato's mom

<mangz74> :)

<nocti> :)

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> uy kool! ngayon ko lang napansin... you can launch KDE apps using a different widget style from the rest of your system...

<nocti> i have a cat that can launch my dog a few yards upon landing on his back

<Jucato> lol

<nocti> gets him every time :)

<nocti> i wonder why they're not friends

<nocti> mangz74: is it easier to code algos in cpp than in plain c?

<mangz74> hmm...

<mangz74> for me it would be easier in c++ coz yun ang nakagisnan ko

<mangz74> but my instructor would disagree...

<nocti> ah ok..

<nocti> c seems tighter tho

<mangz74> he has been using c for all his live

<nocti> pero depends on the code

<mangz74> life pala

<mangz74> yeah

<nocti> ah oks

<mangz74> my damn instructor was a damn good coder

<mangz74> he did codes for SS here and for DOD

<nocti> hehe :) good for you. i read somewhere that genius = 75% work, 24% good instruction

<nocti> ah ok. well i hope he coded for gsis, i helped a friend install their software once, and i was a nightmare

<Jucato> where does perspiration and inspiration come in? 1%?

<nocti> Jucato: if your instructor is sexy then there goes your inspiration :) perspiration == work, but that depends on location, more in the middle east i think ;)

<Jucato> lol

<Jucato> there's such a thing called "cold sweat" :)

<nocti> sorry ha, had 5 beers too many :)

<nocti> cold sweat. an mi would give someone a cold sweat

<mangz74> jucato:somebody did post something on kde forums

<mangz74> lol

<Jucato> partido kubuntu? not yet, I think...

<butiki> News from slashdot: Yahoo! Goes to Print

<mangz74> yes

<Jucato> uy meron nga nag post

<ulinskie> http://www.iosn.net/Members/kaeru/photos/ubuntu-party-edgy-ph

<ulinskie> here are some more photos

<Jucato> weee! nakakainggit!

<Jucato> I'll make sure to be there for 7.04!

<nocti> sa april

<nocti> sana may installfest

<Jucato> hm...

<Jucato> kaso sino ang magpapainstall? hehehe

<dous> an installfest would be nice

<nocti> ang expenses power lng naman, and maybe a nice spacious venue with lots of outlets

<Jucato> yeah

<dous> mangz74: what's on the agenda?

<dous> I mean for the nov 29 meeting

<Jucato> hehe! I just posted that same question

<ulinskie> Jucato: ping the boss... zakame yuhu?!

<dous> zak called for a meeting?

<dous> http://ubuntu-ph.org/wiki/TeamMeetingAgenda should probably be updated or something

<ulinskie> dous: he was the one who set the topic, actually we talked about it during the party

<ulinskie> and he said we'll have one soon

<Jucato> soonish... nice :)

<Jucato> my first ubuntu-ph meeting... :)

* Jucato wonders why people from the forums don't seem to sign up or use ubuntu-ph.org...

<Jucato> good morning kuya dekoy!

<dekoy> morning :)

<mangz74> dous: i didn't call the meeting

<mangz74> I just posted it on the website

<dous> ulinskie: ah.. I see..

<dous> mangz74: ok.. :)

<mangz74> jucato: who called for the meeting jsg or who?

<Jucato> um... is it alright if I "advertise" the meeting in Ubuntuforums? what's the policy regarding who can attend the meetings?

<Jucato> mangz74: ulinskie said zakame did

<dous> anyone can attend..

<dekoy> anong meeting yan

<mangz74> we need to get the agenda

<dekoy> ?

<mangz74> para ma - add natin sa website

<ulinskie> Jucato: I think we need to pm zak first

<Jucato> dekoy: ubuntu-ph meeting

<mangz74> dekoy: mating daw

<ulinskie> better yet

<ulinskie> do the asking in the mailing list

<dekoy> ahhh

<ulinskie> mas madaling mag answer ang mga tao doon

<mangz74> saan?

<mangz74> sa mailing list?

<ulinskie> yeah

<dekoy> paguusapan nyo na kung ibaban nyo ako dito

<dekoy> huhuhuhu

<mangz74> hindi...

<ulinskie> huy.. sa ubuntu-ph bawal ang negative

<mangz74> paguusapan kung gagawan ka nila ng rebolto

<ulinskie> pag negative ka... sasakalin kita

<dekoy> hahaha

<nocti> hehe

<mangz74> negative?

<mangz74> sa website

<mangz74> di naman

<mangz74> LOL

<ulinskie> hehehe

<ulinskie> basta.... iba akong magalit... bwahahaha

<Jucato> ang bilis ng scrolling text, hindi ko nasundan

<ulinskie> nangangagat ako

<dekoy> heehehe

<dekoy> sandali brb muna

<Jucato> ooh, the meeting hasn't been announced in the ML yet

<dous> zakame: are you the one managing ubuntu-ph planet? :)

<ulinskie> dous: naku isa rin yang issue.. everybody seems so busy, I think we need to have more commitment in the group

<mikhail^> is zakame interactive?

<ulinskie> puro kasi now u see now u don't

<ulinskie> isa na ako don

<mikhail^> ulinskie: how do I become part of Ubuntu-ph ?

<Jucato> group? what group? hehehe

<ulinskie> ulinskie: u r part of it as long as you like ubuntu ur in.. there's no rule pa naman

<ulinskie> I think we should also talk about it in the meeting

<nocti> what do other lugs do in other places?

<mikhail^> ulinskie: okay... is there any specific effort that ubuntu-ph undertakes?

<ulinskie> mikhail^: actually I cannot say pa.. I

<ulinskie> am not even part of the ubuntu core group

<ulinskie> coz I am not too good at technical and I don't have the guts pa before to

<ulinskie> really commit myself

<mangz74> mikhail:

<dous> ugins (wiki page: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrPlugins)

<dous> oops..

<dous> http://ubuntu-ph.org/wiki/TeamGoals

<mangz74> i also think we should undertake a group project

* dous can't seem to get the hang of pasting stuff to an irssi session

<ulinskie> mangz74: yeah.. madami kasing plano.. ang mahirap ay kung paano ang execution

<ulinskie> especially if we are in different regions or even countries.. although we are all pinoys

<Jucato> dous: so far, how was ubuntu-ph fared in those goals?

<dous> Jucato: I've only mostly been active with GoalTwo

<nocti> dous: middle-click

<mangz74> ulinskie:i think it is possible kung may commitment lang from everybody

<dous> nocti: yeah, but sometimes when I select text, it's not the one that gets pasted..

<dous> Jucato: with respect to advocacy, I do whatever I can (like recommending ubuntu to peers, etc)

<nocti> dous: select from where? ff? copy it first, ctrl-c

<mangz74> kung nakagawa nga ng OS tulad ng linux made by developers and volunteers all over the world...why can't we do a small project at least

<Jucato> I don't know where I'll fit in those 4 goals. I'm definitely not good with advocacy, specially when it becomes a bit "political". nor am I good in Tagalog/Filipino...

<dous> nocti: but sometimes I need to highlight everything (from one end to another), not just Ctrl-A

<dous> nocti: well anyway..

<nocti> dous: ah yes. weird stuff :) sige on with your discussion.

<ulinskie> naku sa meeting na lang ninyo i reserve ang inyong mga kuro kuro

<ulinskie> I will be the one to ask in the mailing list

<ulinskie> don't worry

<mangz74> right now some of us are doing the translation thing

<dous> right.. :)

<mangz74> :)

<Jucato> too bad no one was able to attend UDS, but zakame was able to listen in. I think Jono Bacon (UCM) has lots of plans for LoCo teams

<ulinskie> yun...

<dous> coordinating to fix bug #1 would be nice

<ulinskie> di kasi alam nang iba what some of you guys are busy with

<ulinskie> kailangan nang coordination

<Jucato> ulinskie: if you need someone to post over at ubuntuforums (we have a long thread there), just tell me

<mikhail^> hmmm

<ulinskie> at least just to keep each other updated

<Jucato> I'm busy at home keeping my butt warm :D

<ulinskie> Jucato: sige you na lang

<mikhail^> I'm wondering kasi if there are projects that need help, perhaps mga C++ applications that need patches/etc.

<mikhail^> Saan ulit yung bug tracking system ng Ubuntu?

* dous is pretty busy at work

<ulinskie> Jucato: buti ka pa.. ako naman.. naghahanap nang mararaket

<dous> mikhail^: https://launchpad.net/malone ?

<Jucato> ulinskie: coz I can't look for a job right now. 2 years graduate, 2 years jobless....

<ulinskie> Jucato: hahaha.. y not be ur own boss

<Jucato> btw, most of our "bigmembers are working in O&B

<Jucato> btw, most of our "big" members are working in O&B, maybe we can think up of a project :)

<Jucato> "Buhayin ang Ubuntu-PH!"

<nocti> how about a desktop blogger app :) i always wanted that :)

<ulinskie> Jucato: ako nga kayod eh... kasi husband ko ngayon ang mas malaki kumita...but he tells me once in awhile kung kaya ko daw syang sustentuhan pag wala na syang work. he seems to be too stressed out with what his doing sometimes that it drains his brain and energy

<Jucato> oh, and probably coordinate with the Bayanihan project. convince them to switch from Debian to Ubuntu :P

<Jucato> ulinskie: ah mahirap nga yan... :(

<mangz74> we actually don't have to waiting for meeting to talk something and discuss

<ulinskie> Jucato: he programs a lot eh..payat na nga masyado..

<mangz74> this IRC is the perfect forum

<mangz74> and we could discuss all the time

<mangz74> :)

<nocti> mangz74: right on :)

<Jucato> mangz74: yeah, but formal proposals and discussions, we need a meeting

<nocti> informal nga lng :)

<Jucato> particularly, we need jsgotangco, zakame, and pusakat to be present

<Jucato> (kuya jerome is our LoCo team leader right?)

<dous> Jucato: zakame

<Jucato> oh... hahaha

<ulinskie> Jucato: zakame is doing the leading now I think

<ulinskie> Jucato: he's the main contact of the loco team

<Jucato> ah ok. now I know who to ask :)

<Jucato> (I always presumed it was kuya jerome...)

<mangz74> yeah

<Jucato> aba aeon17x good evening

<mangz74> jucato:you are correct

<mangz74> don't you think we are going somewhere now with our discussions here today?

<aeon17x> y helo thar

<pusakat> Jucato, why do you need us three to be present?

<mikhail^> malone is for the Universe stuff right?

<Jucato> pusakat: the big guys who will probably decide? :)

<Jucato> mikhail^: malone is Launchpad's bugtracker

<dous> mikhail^: nowadays also main packages use malone

<ulinskie> Jucato: actually he is.. but as far as I know... he gives the other responsibilities to others that he's more comfortable with and could easily coordinate with...its a plus to be an ubuntu member

* pusakat wouldn't want bayanihan to switch to ubuntu as a base. sorry for the bias.

<mikhail^> okay...

* mikhail^ heads on over to malone to help solve a few bugs. :D

* ulinskie has no comment

<Jucato> ok.. i just thought... oh well... it was just a suggestion :)

<ulinskie> I cannot speak for them actually, although I frequently chat with them all. The discussion will go nowhere if the people concerned are not here

<mangz74> jucato:i'm sorry...what was your suggestion?

<Jucato> mangz74: convincing bayanihan to use Ubuntu as base

<mangz74> hey

<mangz74> hahaha

<Jucato> but anyway, aim for something closer to home... like the website :)

<mangz74> mukhang busy dito ngayona h\

<ulinskie> I have a suggestion

<Jucato> yay! suggestion!

<ulinskie> y don't we all put all our ideas in paper

* pusakat pokes zak

<ulinskie> or even in email

<pusakat> use the wiki

<ulinskie> korek ka dyan zorro

<dous> adding stuff to the teamagenda would probably be good

<ulinskie> good idea

<ulinskie> somebody volunteer naman oh

<ulinskie> zakame: pare tulog ka ba?>

<pusakat> i volunteer ulinskie

<Jucato> wee ang bilis :)

<ulinskie> pusakat: ngek.. I still owe kaeru a wiki at iosn.. I haven't even started compiling my notes

<ulinskie> sinong pinaka maingay ngayon?

<ulinskie> Jucato: psst ikaw na lang... lubus lubusin mo na... para love ka ni lord

<Jucato> ano po gagawin uli?

<dekoy> hehe

<ulinskie> naku me amnesia din kagaya ko

<Jucato> right down the suggestions in a wiki? or on paper?

<Jucato> daming suggestions, I have to review the logs later/tomorrow

<ulinskie> Jucato: anak.. gawa ka nang wiki.. tapos lagay mo ideas mo.. then inform us at the mailing list

<mangz74> i could do that

<ulinskie> we will all login to put our ideas too

* mangz74 steps forward to volunteer for whatever

<mangz74> lol

<ulinskie> mangz74: thank u thank u... sige u na lang..mwaahh

<pusakat> wiki for collaborative stuff

<Jucato> ayun si mangz74 daw

<mangz74> yeah

<mangz74> hahaha

<pusakat> mailing list for coordination

<ulinskie> pusakat: amen

<dous> just create an account at http://ubuntu-ph.org/wiki

<Jucato> ulinskie: to be honest, I know nothing about wikis... I have a wiki at ubuntu... but it's practically nothing...

<dous> and put stuff there

<dous> :)

<mangz74> IRC for discussions

<pusakat> irc for chatter and coord

<mangz74> and webpage for dessimanation of information

<dekoy> irc for president

<mangz74> damn...wrong spelling

<mangz74> hahaha

<ulinskie> dous: paki guide na lang si mangz74

<Jucato> mangz74: are you using konversation?

<pusakat> dekoy for muse

<mangz74> no

<Jucato> ah ok

<dekoy> neyhehee

<ulinskie> hayy,,, ano do google define:

<ulinskie> hayy,,, ano to google define: ?

<mangz74> ulinskie:guide saan?

<ulinskie> mangz74: okay ka na sa wiki.. u need no help na?

<mangz74> i'm done with that

<mangz74> been there for a long time

<mangz74> LOL

<nocti> mangz74: wiki name?

<butiki> News from slashdot: Microsoft's Battle for Software Mindshare

<mangz74> hahaha

<mangz74> i should change it though

<mangz74> AaronMangoroban

<mangz74> dang...completo rekados

<nocti> how about GroupAgendas or something hehe

<Jucato> I really need to study how to use/write wikis... para maka-relate

<ulinskie> nocti: we can put that also..

<ulinskie> Jucato: its easy.. u'll see.

<nocti> ]/query Jucato hey

<pusakat> Jucato, you don't really have to study.

<pusakat> Jucato, just go to the wiki and edit pages.

<Jucato> pusakat: er.. I meant "learn"/get used to

<pusakat> ah. okie.

<nocti> what do you guys like your lug to do?

<mangz74> brb muna...work muna ako

<Jucato> pusakat: I basically know how to type in/edit a wiki, but some of the formatting options are new to me. I've edited some wikis in wiki.ubuntu.org and have my own page there

<mangz74> 5 mins work

<ulinskie> no need for an html editor

<Jucato> yeah. it's a bit easy to use, based on my previous experience. sanayan lang sa mga === titles === :)

<mangz74> :)

<mangz74> marunong ka naman pala jucato eh

<mangz74> just a matter practicing it

<mangz74> asa na mga tao

<Jucato> mangz74: opo.. eto nga page ko eh: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Jucato

* dous goes back to work.. just pm me if anyone needs me

<mangz74> lol

<mangz74> so what have talked about here?

<Jucato> mangz74: sabi ko sayo, marami eh. scroll up na lang hehehe

<ulinskie> http://www.iosn.net/Members/yolynne/FossAtWork

<ulinskie> tell me if you view it in thumbnail view

<ulinskie> I have to rotate some pics

<ulinskie> testing lang muna

<Jucato> none

<Jucato> "No albums or photos uploaded yet."

<ulinskie> ok wait

<ulinskie> I can see it from here eh

<Jucato> hm... I can't here...

<ulinskie> wait...ill check tghe settings

<mangz74> ulinski

<mangz74> ikaw si yolynne?

<mikhail^> this is a potentially stupid question but... what do you do when you lose your private key?

<Jucato> mangz74: yes she is

<mangz74> mikhail: it is gone

<ulinskie> mangz74: yeah... ulin = yolyn

<mikhail^> mangz74: I know what happens. pero what do you do when that happens?

<mangz74> ah ok...nice to meet you

<ulinskie> mangz74: same here

<ulinskie> pusakat: hey.. we got a q here.. what does one do if he loses his private key?

<nocti> mikhail^: you didnt generate a revoking key for that?

<mangz74> mikhail:i hope you a revocation key

<nocti> mikhail^: revoke it and generate another one

<mangz74> mikhail: and post the revocation key on the keyservers

<mangz74> mikhail:have to start from scratch

<mikhail^> holy scratch...

<mangz74> yes

<nocti> mikhail^: no backups? maybe there's a *ring.gpg~ in ~/.gnupg/ usually does

<mikhail^> nocti: it's on another lappy, which I don't have access to at the moment

<nocti> mikhail^: it's not lost then

<mangz74> fyi:they do have the agenda on the wiki pages

<mikhail^> nocti: I'm just exploring the possibility of what do I do if that happens.

<Jucato> mangz74: the old agenda?

<mangz74> i don't know

<mangz74> its a bit confusing

<nocti> mikhail^: ah ok :) backup to gmail :) make a hardcopy of your (armored) secret key

<mangz74> hahaha

<mangz74> it says next meeting is nov 29

<mangz74> http://ubuntu-ph.org/wiki/TeamMeetingAgenda

<Jucato> I thought the agenda there was the old one

<mikhail^> nocti: I think I should do that... I remember I have a copy on the free.net.ph mail server before, however I don't think I have IMAP access there anymore. :|

<ulinskie> yeah

<ulinskie> that's the old agenda

<dous> we could discuss that, or update it

<mangz74> we definite could update that

<Jucato> wow... there have been no minutes since the Jan 04 2006 meeting?

<mangz74> like site management

<dous> I changed the next meeting date

<mangz74> maybe we could add new volunteers

<Jucato> brb...

<mangz74> follow up registered members

<dous> Jucato: they're supposed to be logged anyway.. :)

<ulinskie> see.. u guys have lots of ideas already

<ulinskie> put it in the wiki

<ulinskie> questions and suggestions alike

<ulinskie> so that everything will get cleared up

<ulinskie> hey gtg

<nocti> how bout a key signing event next time

<ulinskie> is this being logged?

<ulinskie> can somebody save this pls

<ulinskie> I need to go now

<dous> http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/2006/11/21/%23ubuntu-ph.html