<Jester45> the wm is xfwm4

<globe> thats it

<globe> thx...I thought xfce4 was wrong.... ;-)

<JKnife> ohh

<JKnife> i should read what is asked then XD

<Jester45> 2nd [2nd person ew mins

<Jester45> sorry not looking at screen

<globe> is there a way to make an 'open terminal button' on a panel?

<globe> (I got an icon on the deskop)

<Jester45> i need help with font size on irssi

<JKnife> set it through the terminal

<Jester45> hepl me with it

<Jester45> i cant think to much right now

<JKnife> options -> font

<JKnife> -_-

<Jester45> ok...

<JKnife> then chose your font /size

<Jester45> how you get ot options :)

<JKnife> the menu up top.. see File, Edit, BLAH

<JKnife> look through em

<Jester45> im using irssi

<Jester45> cli

<xBun2usr> Hello. Im running Xubuntu edgy, and when I installed I had a SoundBlaster sitting in the PCI chain. I have since removed it, because I noticed I had on-board AC'97. Now upon booting no sound device is listed in the volume control panel. Is there a way to re-install the support for sound through Synaptic ??? Or another way???

<JKnife> Jester45, ok.. look in /etc

<Jester45> forget it

<JKnife> ok

<cellofellow> !seen vidd

<ubotu> I last saw vidd (n=vidd@static-72-86-132-244.phlapa.east.verizon.net) 11h 26m 27s ago, quiting: "Leaving"

<cellofellow> http://school-at-home.blogspot.com

<cellofellow> anyone is welcome to read that.

<cellofellow> anyone who cares here?

<crimsun> no.

<moyote> they left

<cellofellow> :(

<cellofellow> gee it's quiet

<moyote> boo

<Nameless-One> raa

<cellofellow> harah!

<moyote> We are an exciting group. :-)

<Nameless-One> O.O

<Aldoliel> Why, indeed we are...

<moyote> On a serious note, whatever Nvidia card you buy, be sure it's not a 6600!

<Nameless-One> O.o o.O

<moyote> It works for everything except gaming. The box freezes when playing games. I'm speaking of course of M$ games.

* cellofellow doesn't game.

<Aldoliel> Thanks, i'll bear that in mind :)

<Nameless-One> wat, you mean it doesnt play ms games on linux

<moyote> I don't much either any more. I think it's an overheating problem. I put an Ati and it works find. I really prefer nvidia in Linux, but who really cares. I'm rambling and will now go silent. :-)

<moyote> find/fine

<moyote> Strange, it's just that nvidia card.\

<cellofellow> well, I would like to game now and then, but I've only got old computers, and anit-game parents

<moyote> Well, that's not good.

<Nameless-One> woh, all i use my comp for is gaming, homework and playing around with random things, like linux

<moyote> what vid card do you use, then?

<Nameless-One> even my dad plays comp games

<cellofellow> mines a RIVA TNT@

<Nameless-One> WOH

<cellofellow> s/@/2

<Nameless-One> in fact, my dad was playing wesnoth this morning

<cellofellow> nVidia chipset, so I could get the (legacy) propietary driver

<Nameless-One> :-/

<moyote> wesnoth is role-playing game????

<Nameless-One> its that turn based fantasy game

<Nameless-One> rofl amateur radio has its own section in synaptic

<winn1> Nameless-One: yes, for ages as in debian

<Nameless-One> O.O

<JKnife> o.O

<winn1> -.-

<JKnife> ».«

<Nameless-One> #.#

<JKnife> =\

<Nameless-One> ).(

<winn1> ^.^

<Nameless-One> _'_

<JKnife> =^.^=

<Nameless-One> >.>

<JKnife> <(o<_>o)>

<winn1> that's a nice conversation ;-)

<Nameless-One> sure is

<Nameless-One> very intellectual

<winn1> but actually i do have a question

<winn1> rather stupid i suppose

<Nameless-One> yay question

<Nameless-One> fire away

<winn1> what's the difference between xfce and gnome (except that xfce is faster)?

* JKnife shoots Nameless-One

<JKnife> -_-

<JKnife> umm everything?

<crimsun> nothing.

<Nameless-One> omg, i'm too young to die, winn1 you must avenge my death

<crimsun> they're 110% identical

<crimsun> right down to their CRASHES

<JKnife> crimsun: next you are gonna say that OpenBox and HackedBox are the same

<Nameless-One> crashes? what are crashes

* JKnife wonders if HackedBox is still around

<Nameless-One> and fluxbox and blackbox

<winn1> i mean especially in the ubuntu flavours, they look (well, different ok) but almost the same

<JKnife> Nameless-One: there is a LOT of difference between those 2

<crimsun> the default look of both Xubuntu and Ubuntu may appear similar initially

<Nameless-One> except they have box in their names

<crimsun> but once you play with them both, you'll discover each has a different idea of common usability

<crimsun> they're very definitely different

<winn1> ok, they are different, but to me only in minor things

<Nameless-One> do these minor things encompass everything

<Aldoliel> I've always found Xfce to be less resource intensive and far simpler overall

<winn1> well maybe that's why. i always liked the simple things and never used all of gnome

<JKnife> o.O the latest centericq snapshot is 12mb

<Aldoliel> Gnome seems to have many features I don't think it's likely I'll ever use

<Nameless-One> omg kde = master of bloat

<moyote> :-)

<JKnife> =\ not any more... gnome is catching up

<Aldoliel> What Nameless-One says is true

* crimsun switches to Kubuntu just for it

<Aldoliel> But then, last time I used KDE was with SuSE 8.1...

<winn1> yeah, i've been running dapper (gnome) on my not so new notbook and it was quite a drag

<JKnife> lets just say gnome has found the candy bucket...

<Aldoliel> I'm running Xfce on a Celeron 266 with 96MB of RAM without many problems...

<winn1> so it's mainly the eye-candy ;-)

<JKnife> winn1: =\ and mono

<Nameless-One> CDE!

<JKnife> EvilWM FTW!

<winn1> omg another stupid question, what's mono?

<Aldoliel> .net for Linux

<winn1> oh yes, i remember, but i didn't think gnome uses that a lot

<Nameless-One> monobrow

<Nameless-One> O.o

<JKnife> winn1: with .16 they are using more and more of it...

<winn1> you must thonk i' a total newbie, but i've been running linux-based systems for about 6 now

<winn1> when i started you had the choice kde or fvwm2

<JKnife> what in the world... why is the centericq snapshot prebuilt?

<JKnife> really? i started in 06 also

<winn1> that was a big difference

<JKnife> 00*

<JKnife> =\ my mind is else where

<winn1> well, i don't quite remember, but my first distro was suse 5.2

<winn1> nevermind

<JKnife> =\ i started out with knoppix

<Nameless-One> sudo: O.o: command not found

<Nameless-One> good ol knoppix

<JKnife> knoppix is the king of live distros..

<Aldoliel> I started with knoppix too, then Suse 8.1, then I decided I disliked KDE, then I 'discovered' Breezy

<winn1> yeah, but i also liked tomsfrtbrtrtrbt (or something like that)

<winn1> but that couldn't do much

<fontppp> is quake in the multiverse or the universe repo?

<crimsun> neither

<crimsun> quake2, however, is in multiverse

<JKnife> fehquake isn't in the repos?

<crimsun> not under that name, no.

<cellofellow> yippee I love knoppix

<fontppp> apt-cache search quake2 doesn't pull anything up, even after i've uncommented the multiverse repo

<Nameless-One> quake2 is in the multiverse

<fontppp> what am i doing wrong?

<crimsun> apt-cache policy quake2 quake2-data

<winn1> i see it in synaptic

<Aldoliel> You'll need to do apt-get update

<fontppp> aldol, done that already.

<fontppp> frimsun : what does apt-cache policy do ?

<fontppp> W: Unable to locate package quake2

<crimsun> !info quake2

<ubotu> quake2: improved version of id Software's Quake II engine. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1:0.3-1.1ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 1240 kB, installed size 3144 kB

<crimsun> are you using 6.10?

<crimsun> heh, we've had it ever since warty

<crimsun> [4.10]

<cellofellow> what's the secret to getting things to score on Digg?

<fontppp> 6.06.1

<fontppp> cello : it looks like it's usually ps3 or wii content, coupled with a poor grammar and spelling

<cellofellow> so, a nicely written article flops?

<Nameless-One> stupid digg

<cellofellow> http://digg.com/linux_unix/What_Novell_Should_Have_Done

<fontppp> Any clue what could be wrong with my apt-getting-ness?

<fontppp> grep multiver /etc/apt/sources.list

<fontppp> deb http://mx.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse

<fontppp> and i've done apt-get update after that

<cellofellow> what about just dapper?

<JKnife> deb http://mx.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper main restricted universe multiverse

<JKnife> WEEEEEEEEEEEE

<cellofellow> no -backports

* JKnife gotta teach cellofellow on how to just post it and not ask questions about it

<cellofellow> well, ok

* cellofellow is still new to this sort of stuff

<Nameless-One> :-X

<fontppp> wiiiii

<fontppp> so backports is my problem?

<winn1> maybe it's: deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu dapper-commercial

<crimsun> it's the fact that you don't have a correct normal dapper line

<Aldoliel> It's not in commerecial

<crimsun> the one that JKnife pasted is what you're missing

<Aldoliel> If I can spell it

<cellofellow> fontppp: the backports is ok, just you need to do it with normal dapper too.

<crimsun> note that dapper-backports != dapper

<winn1> oh now i see it too

<fontppp> ok. All I remmeber doing is uncommenting it.

<fontppp> thanks

<Nameless-One> O.O

<winn1> ^^

<Nameless-One> what web browser would you recommend for using on xfce

<Scrape> How do I make my Firefox GUI fonts the same as my GTK GUI fonts? After Edgy upgrade, Firefox GUI fonts seem to be quite large.

<Nameless-One> other than firefox

<Scrape> Nameless-One: Opera's pretty nice, and lightweight (seems lighter than firefox)

<cellofellow> Nameless-One: I like firefox sorry, but in faith with XFCE's speed there is a specially-built firefox called swiftfox I use.

<winn1> hmm, i have mozilla-browser here, and opera

<winn1> and i don't like mozilla

<Nameless-One> yeh i use swiftfox at teh mo, but i dont like firefox

* cellofellow doesn't need a suite

<cellofellow> well, there's opera and galeon. I guess that's it.

<Scrape> So, anyone on the fonts question?

<JKnife> well as crimsun would argue.. Opera brings in Qt

<JKnife> i say use Dillo XD and if you need a full browser use Opera

<Commander-Crowe> is that ok if opera brings in QT?

<Commander-Crowe> cuz I was gonna ask about opera

<cellofellow> there's also lynx :D

<winn1> lynx rulez

* cellofellow has kde installed too and uses konqueror now and then.

<winn1> especially youtube

<Commander-Crowe> yeah it does

<cellofellow> winn1: how do you do youtube on lynx?

<Commander-Crowe> haha

<winn1> well, you read the comments

<winn1> the rest is imagination

* cellofellow wonders if there's a way to get lynx to call flash when a video is er clicked, like it calls imagemagick on images.

<Nameless-One> so does opera require qt

<fontppp> <3 lynx

* cellofellow doesn

<cellofellow> t like opera has not-so-good gmail support

<Commander-Crowe> no

<Commander-Crowe> Opera dosn't need QT

<winn1> i use checkgmail

<Aldoliel> Gmail works fine in Opera for me

<winn1> oh you mean... ok

<cellofellow> mee to, but I just for alerts

<Nameless-One> what dependencies does opera need

<Commander-Crowe> !Opera

<ubotu> opera is an advanced and free (only as in price) web browser. Install it via Applications->Add/Remove..., making sure that "Show commercial applications" is checked. For more info on opera please see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OperaBrowser

<Scrape> I've noticed that various things like del.icio.us and blogger don't always work nicely w/ opera, however, and netscape plugins

<cellofellow> opera is a little *too* standards compliant

<cellofellow> ?me ducks

* cellofellow ducks

<cellofellow> it ought to support non-standard stuff as an option

<cellofellow> so as to take advantage of cool new AJAX features

<winn1> you mean acid2?

<JKnife> =/ umm did opera ever get put in the edgy repo?

<cellofellow> they are THE acid2 browser

<cellofellow> commercial

<Aldoliel> It usually works fine for me

* cellofellow just likes firefox.

<winn1> yeah, even if it doesn't pass acid2 ;-)

<cellofellow> well, I'm sure Firefox 3 with Gecko 2 will do better.

<winn1> yes, as far as i remember the safari (which is based on khtml) developers checked they're engine against acid

<cellofellow> they did

<Scrape> So... anyone know how to make Firefox "look like" the rest of my desktop? GUI fonts in firefox after the edgy upgrade are huge.

<cellofellow> Apple and KDE are acid2 compliant

<Commander-Crowe> whast a good program fro ripping music off of audio cds?>

<cellofellow> Scrape: I'm sorry I don't

<cellofellow> Commander-Crowe: grip's ok

<winn1> oh is khtml yet? i haven' tried

<Commander-Crowe> grip

<cellofellow> winn1: I'm not sure if konqueror passes acid2 100%, but I know it's good.

<cellofellow> vidd!!!!! :D

<Commander-Crowe> what is acid2?

<vidd> cellofellow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<vidd> XD

<cellofellow> Commander-Crowe: test for browsers' standards compliance

* vidd is getting SO AGGREVATED by his web server

<Commander-Crowe> oh

<cellofellow> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1129

* vidd is getting ready to toss it tru a window!

<cellofellow> vidd: what is it? the way your ISP is blocking you?

<winn1> Scrape: i would like to know that too

* vidd lost power, and when the pc rebooted, he couldnt even get the default page to load on localhost!!!!

<cellofellow> yeeks

* vidd is completely re-installing from scratch...using dapper

<cellofellow> ok

<Scrape> I'm switching back to Firefox from Opera to try some spiffy GreaseMonkey stuff

* vidd is getting SO AGGREVATED by his web server

<vidd> lol

<cellofellow> Scrape: I love greasemonkey

<cellofellow> vidd: hve you worked out the isp thing? I can ping you.

<vidd> what really *^&%&^$ me off is someone @ work made a suggestion that sounded like i could get this thing off the ground

<vidd> you see me?

<cellofellow> pinging vidd.homelinux.net works

<vidd> well yeah....

<vidd> but that;s cuzz you are pinging the forwarder

<cellofellow> telneting port 80 stalled

<vidd> THEY dont have issues!

<cellofellow> what's your ip address? try ipchicken.com

* vidd does not have any machines on the ip address that my router is forwarding port 80 to yet....

<vidd> im re-installing the server

* JKnife stuffs vidd in a duffle bag, then drives 5 hrs to the middle of a desert, uncovers a set of secert stairs, climbs 10 feet down and dumps him then and leaves...

<Commander-Crowe> how do you tell if firestarter is running without bringing up the window?

<JKnife> Commander-Crowe: ps aux

* cellofellow lives near the desert he'll help vidd.

* vidd beats JKnife home....

<winn1> homelinux isn't a forwarder in that sense

<cellofellow> Commander-Crowe: ps -A | grep firestarter might work

<cellofellow> vidd: homelinux.net is just a dyndns.org domain.

<cellofellow> mine's cellofellow.homelinux.net

<Commander-Crowe> ok so it isn't running

<vidd> JKnife, you forget...i have 9 years infantryman training....5 hours in the desert is a ckewalk

<Commander-Crowe> now I have to get it to run in the backgroud when I start up

<cellofellow> Commander-Crowe: not so fast. what does sudo /etc/init.d/firestarter say?

<Scrape> winn1: well, you can set font-size in userChrome.css. For whatever reason, setting font-size to 10pt made the font be the same size as my GTK 12pt font.

<Commander-Crowe> let me check

<Jester45> does xubuntu have a firewall?

<cellofellow> Scrape: of course! the userChrome.css file.

<vidd> yes and no....

<Jester45> well can i disable it

<vidd> intsall firestarter

<vidd> then you can control it

<cellofellow> Jester45: iptables is installed and running, without blocking anything by default.

<Jester45> could it be the process watchdog>

<JKnife> vidd: XD

<Jester45> cellofellow: whats the reason for it then

<winn1> Jester45: for what?

<Commander-Crowe> theres no error

<Commander-Crowe> s

<Jester45> winn1: iptables

<vidd> acually, i think it BLOCKS everything by default

<cellofellow> Jester45: well, iptables isn't program in and of itself. iptables is the cli tool for the kernel's firewall/packet-filter

<Commander-Crowe> it just doesn't start on boot up

<globe> PING 1163817102 197799

<cellofellow> vidd: no, I think it's opens everything

<winn1> Jester45: what's not happening so you want disable your firewall?

<vidd> o.0

<JKnife> o.O globe pinged meh!

<JKnife> -(

<JKnife> =(*

<cellofellow> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IptablesHowTo

<Jester45> winn1: i want its to be completely open on aeverything

<Jester45> so i can test ceritin part

<winn1> normally everything should be open

<cellofellow> Jester45: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

<winn1> well only on ports you-'re running stuff on

<vidd> cellofellow, how do i set up ssh?

<cellofellow> vidd: install ssh

<cellofellow> it's got like nothing to it

<cellofellow> hey this looks promising

<cellofellow> http://easyfwgen.morizot.net/gen/

<vidd> how do i use apt-get to install suggested packages as well as required packages?

<cellofellow> uhhh, make a note of the suggested packages?

* cellofellow doesn't know

<globe_new> vidd: I think that if you spell out aptitude it will do suggested

<globe_new> vidd: 'aptitude install ...'

<cellofellow> aptitude is nice, but I don't think that

<cellofellow> s what he wants

<globe_new> I was under the impression that tey were the same thing

*** globe_new is now known as globe

<cellofellow> no, aptitude is a ncurses-gui app

<cellofellow> with cli options similar to apt-get

<cellofellow> type just aptitude into a terminal and see

<globe> oooh. yea, right

<winn1> aptitude --with-recomends install

<winn1> ooops misspelled

<winn1> --whith-recommends

<vidd> ty

<winn1> again

<cellofellow> cool

<winn1> but you see what i mean

<vidd> man i hate CLI....im such a n00b with it!

<cellofellow> split the difference between the two commands

* globe thinks vidd is a n00b @ typing too

<globe> ;[)

<globe> heh... ;-)

* cellofellow tells globe to duck

<vidd> JKnife, i think globe needs to go on that trip....

<Scrape> winn1: ok, here's a better way to fix the firefox gui fonts I think... go to about:config and change layout.css.dpi to whatever your screen dpi is.

<JKnife> what trip?

<JKnife> OHH THAT TRIP

<vidd> lol

<cellofellow> cool

* JKnife stuffs globe in a duffle bag, then drives 5 hrs to the middle of a desert, uncovers a set of secert stairs, climbs 10 feet down and dumps him then and leaves...

<Jester45> i dont understand iptables

<globe> wait. does this mean i'm in a hole in the middle of a desert?

<JKnife> Jester45: no one does

<JKnife> globe: yep

<Jester45> how to i allow any incoming traffic to my computer

<cellofellow> http://easyfwgen.morizot.net/gen/

<cellofellow> try that

<cellofellow> or firestarter, which configs iptables

* vidd recommends firestarter

<vidd> which probably means Jester45 will run far,far....FAR away from it!

<cellofellow> how do I find my screens dpi? I've got a 17 inch tube at 1280X1024

<nalioth> globe: was there a reason for the channel ping?

<cellofellow> vidd: don't be so hard on yourself

<winn1> Jester45: normally any incoming traffic is allowed by default

<globe> nalioth: ?

<JKnife> globe: you pinged the channel

<vidd> great....how do i set my net ip address in CLI???

<JKnife> then dced

<JKnife> vidd: ifconfig

<globe> oh....I was trying to set my local ip to a static one and thought I was disconnected...but that was about 10 minutes ago

<globe> vidd: ifconfig eth* ip.add.re.ss

* cellofellow just uses dhcp and configs his server to reserve addresses.

<vidd> ty....i forget so much.....

<globe> np

<globe> (I just happened to have read the manpage about 3 minutes ago)

<nalioth> globe: just for a FYI, pinging a whole channel is considered rude

<vidd> globe, aren't you stuck in a hole somewere????

<cellofellow> globe: I thought you were in a hole in the desert?

<JKnife> he is

<globe> nalioth: hrm...thx for the nfo.

<globe> I am

<cellofellow> you have a lappy?

<cellofellow> j/k

<globe> oh yea...!

<globe> so...how do I ping the server?

<globe> (that is what I meant to do)

<nalioth> globe: just /ping ubotu

<cellofellow> just ping server.address

<globe> can it be done from inside irc?

<nalioth> globe: you can /ping ubotu from irc, but you should use a regular terminal to ping servers

<globe> okey.

* globe lowers head

* cellofellow helps him out of that hole

<globe> if I use a static ip, do I also have to setup the nameservers manually too?

<cellofellow> like DNS?

<cellofellow> should just work as before

<crimsun> generally, yes, you need to specify them in /etc/resolv.conf manually

<cellofellow> less complicated actually using static ip's instead of dynamic

<cellofellow> oh, that kind of nameserver

<cellofellow> yes yes yes

<globe> because when I put my nic on a static ip all I could get was my router

<cellofellow> so how do I calculate my dpi?

<Commander-Crowe> windoze fools

<Commander-Crowe> so pompous

<globe> crimsun: if I specify my router in there, does it stick when I reboot?

<cellofellow> globe: of course

<cellofellow> globe: this is file on the hdd

<globe> as opposed to...ramdisk? is there a ramdisk?

<cellofellow> not really, but there is the tmpfs which disapears at reboot.

* JKnife drives 5 hrs to the middle of a desert, uncovers a set of secert stairs, climbs 10 feet down and takes globe's laptop and then leaves

<globe> lol

<cellofellow> jknife can time travel

<JKnife> cellofellow: ? i never said anything about time travel

<globe> must be pretty good at it. now I am standing in the middle of a desert, not in a hole (thx cellofellow), but no laptop

<crimsun> but you have a cell phone with Internet access, so it all balances

<crimsun> pretty amazing, eh?

<globe> :s

<cellofellow> JKnife: you drive five hours in about five seconds

<cellofellow> make that ten hours actually

<Jester45> friend turned off computer

<JKnife> cellofellow: umm...

* JKnife runs

<cellofellow> JKnife: it's ok we aint mad just divulge your time travel secrets. Where'd you get the D'Lorean?

* JKnife stuffs cellofellow in a duffle bag, then drives 5 hrs to the middle of a desert, uncovers a set of secert stairs, climbs 10 feet down and dumps him then and leaves...

* cellofellow calls for help

*** globe_new is now known as globe

* cellofellow has no lappy or cellphone and is in a hole in the desert

* cellofellow found some dessert

<globe> -_-

* cellofellow not fore real, in the desert hole

<cellofellow> desert, dessert get it?

* vidd calls burt wagner (aka nightcrawler) to come teleport cellofellow out of the desert

* globe is smarter than cellofellow thinks

* cellofellow flies through the are back home

<vidd> *kurt

<cellofellow> air

<winn1> ahrg i can't play an audio cd

<cellofellow> winn1: what program?

<winn1> totem

<globe> winn1: try xmms

<winn1> play disc audio disc is greyed out

<cellofellow> xmms rocks

<cellofellow> just open /dev/hdc and it plays

<winn1> i tried gxine. that does play but with interruptions

<winn1> well it's hdb on my lappy but i'll try

<winn1> that works

<winn1> but still

<winn1> with interruptions

<globe> winn1: try xmms. its in apt

<winn1> yeah, good old xmms

<cellofellow> xmms xmss xmms

<globe> that reminds me...is there a cli mp3 player?

<JKnife> mpd

<cellofellow> mp3blaster

<JKnife> !mpd

<ubotu> mpd: Music Player Daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.1-1ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 123 kB, installed size 392 kB

<cellofellow> and mp123

<cellofellow> mpg123

<winn1> mpg123

<winn1> ugh xmms requires libgtk1,2

<cellofellow> so?

<winn1> thank god it doesn't look like it

<globe> ... does mpg123 support .pls -> streaming server?

<cellofellow> don't know

<cellofellow> it supports streams

* cellofellow was just playing a radio stream with it

<globe> indeed cool. Is there a way to get the cli back with it still running?

<cellofellow> globe: try ^z

<cellofellow> or use screen

<moyote> Help. Can't log into the desktop. Here is the problem: Session lasted less than 10 seconds. Error that is causing the problem: xfce-mcs-manager Gtk Warning; Theme file for default has no name. Any suggestions???

<globe> yea... that stops it

<cellofellow> ^z stops it, but then type bg 1 to get it going in the background

<cellofellow> or run mpg123 file &

<cellofellow> background automatically

<globe> ooh...I didnot know about bg

<winn1> ok xmms plays it

<cellofellow> winn1: :-)

<globe> cellofellow: nice. now when I am messing with gnome my music isn't on and off and on and off

<globe> thx

<Commander-Crowe> ./eggdrop: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.4.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

<Commander-Crowe> make: *** [install-start] Error 127

<Commander-Crowe> that the error i get when i do "make" in compiling eggdrop

<winn1> apt-get install libtcl8.4-dev ?

<moyote> perhaps a reinstall??

<winn1> or only apt-get install libtcl-dev?

<Commander-Crowe> no such package

<Commander-Crowe> eh

<cellofellow> Commander-Crowe: aptitude search string

<winn1> mom

<Commander-Crowe> I got it

<winn1> ok, time for bed

<superkirbyartist> How well does Xubuntu run on Pentium MMX, 266mhz, 192MB RAM, 2GB HD.

<Commander-Crowe> superkirbyartist works great for me :)

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: sounds about the min I would try. but workable.

<superkirbyartist> Anyone else: can I expect good experience with: Firefox, OpenOffice, Gnomesword/Bibletime, LimeWire, stepmania?

<cellofellow> prolly not OOo, firefox should be ok.

<superkirbyartist> Why not OOo?

<superkirbyartist> I need an office suite!

<JKnife> abiword!

<cellofellow> abiword and gnumeric are included but not OOo anyways.

<cellofellow> OOo is a Java app and painfully slow on faster systems than that.

<superkirbyartist> Is it a GOOD writing processor? As for Spreadsheat (Gnumeric) and presentations?

<superkirbyartist> LimeWire is Java too. But GTK-Gnutella sucks!

<superkirbyartist> It's ugly and geeky!

* JKnife sighs

<JKnife> linux = geeky..

<superkirbyartist> Not Linux! GTK-Gnutella!

<superkirbyartist> It won't cancel/delete files!

<JKnife> please stop yelling

<superkirbyartist> I am not.

<superkirbyartist> But: any presentation/LimeWire software?

<JKnife> "It won't cancel/delete files*!*" "Not Linux*!* GTK-Gnutella*!*" "But GTK-Gnutella sucks*!*"

<superkirbyartist> Never mind. Sorry.

<cellofellow> Abiword is ok, but nothing powerful. I don't really like gnumeric but to each his own.

* cellofellow likes OOo and Google Docs & Spreadsheets.

<superkirbyartist> But, what about presentations?

<JKnife> i love abiword =/

<JKnife> uhmm.. do not know any off the top of my head

<JKnife> come on ubotu !

<Nameless-One> O.O

<JKnife> !presentations

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about presentations - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<JKnife> !presentation

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about presentation - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<JKnife> poo

<superkirbyartist> Can I open a lot of stuff with AbiWord/Gnumeric?

<superkirbyartist> !powerpoin

<JKnife> yes

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about powerpoin - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<superkirbyartist> !powerpoint

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about powerpoint - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<superkirbyartist> Will I be able to open all my microsoft/OpenOffice stuff?

<vidd> !impress

<JKnife> yes

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about impress - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<Nameless-One> yes

<JKnife> !vidd

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about vidd - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<superkirbyartist> Very well?

<JKnife> haha, he doesn't know you

<Nameless-One> !language | nameless-one

<ubotu> nameless-one: Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.

<JKnife> superkirbyartist: yes

<cellofellow> There's also Inkscape included for vector grapchics, I think, but doesn't work too well for making slide shows. would work though.

<JKnife> uhmm.. he could export to jpg and use gphoto

<JKnife> or png or what ever

<superkirbyartist> Inkscape = Photoshop alternative?

<Nameless-One> no

<cellofellow> no, Illustrator

<cellofellow> The GIMP is Photoshop

<Nameless-One> yeah

<superkirbyartist> I am doing Photoshop (not elements) classes.

<JKnife> the gimp id for you

<superkirbyartist> Will The GIMP be able to work well like PShop?

<JKnife> yes

<superkirbyartist> Do we say "The Gimp" like we say "The Cheat"?

<JKnife> if we tell you a program, it will work as well as its Windows counterpart

<cellofellow> If you learn the PShop basics, you should be able to figure out the Gimp, but keep Photoshop around.

<superkirbyartist> I can't afford to buy and Wine photoshop.

<superkirbyartist> And Wining stuff fails or some features don't work sometimes.

<cellofellow> well, it will be tough cause the gimps ui is nothing like Photoshop

<superkirbyartist> But you can still blur/emboss/etc.

<cellofellow> oh, yes

<cellofellow> and layers and filters and all of the really actually useful stuff.

<superkirbyartist> Would it be a good Photoshop replacement? Since it's GTK, will it work well on Xubuntu old laptop? Is there a lightweight presentation software?

<cellofellow> well, the gimp is great on it's own as a photoshop app, runs great in xfce. Theres just the presentation software....

* cellofellow fires up synaptic

* superkirbyartist fires up Add/Remove apps.

<Nameless-One> i fire up my fire

<cellofellow> booooom

<superkirbyartist> There are several.

<superkirbyartist> Criawips.

<superkirbyartist> It's a Gnome app.

<cellofellow> well, stick to GTK don't do KPresent or whatever the KOffice app is.

<cellofellow> some gnome apps don't mind xfce, others bring in a boatload of other software you don't need.

<superkirbyartist> Nothing else: OpenOffice or Criawips (For GNOME)

<Nameless-One> bah stupid openoffice

<cellofellow> maybe.

<superkirbyartist> Which?

<Nameless-One> run office 97 in wine

<cellofellow> there is KOffice, but I don't know how much it uses.

<superkirbyartist> NO WAY! I DON'T WANT NO BILL GATES!

<superkirbyartist> (Sorry for the caps. I don't have Office 97 anyways)

* cellofellow does

<cellofellow> but doesn't like wine

<superkirbyartist> My computer has NO Microsoft software.

<superkirbyartist> Cellofellow is a Windows user?

<Nameless-One> office 97 in wine is awesome

<cellofellow> it's actually my parents'

* cellofellow like never uses windows these days.

<superkirbyartist> I don't plan to use office 97 since it's old and proprietary. If I have to use proprietary, not from MS.

<Nameless-One> why

<superkirbyartist> So cellofellow, how do you want bill gates without windows?

<Nameless-One> microsoft is god

<cellofellow> then Lotus Notes

<Nameless-One> O.o

<superkirbyartist> I want a free alternative. N-O, Microsoft is God? Would he want us to waste our cash?

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: I don't. I just, oh never mind I didn't suggest office 97 in wine.

<Nameless-One> office 97 was a great product

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: there's KPresenter and OOo Impress. You can try OOo and see if it's too slow.

<Nameless-One> OOo will be too slow

<cellofellow> And Crawips whatever that is never tried it

<superkirbyartist> But I also found Criawips.

<cellofellow> funny, I can't find it

* cellofellow seems to remember Puppy having some small presentation program

* cellofellow goes to find his puppy cd

<superkirbyartist> It looks not bad.

<superkirbyartist> It looks good and simple for what it is.

<cellofellow> does abiword have a normal gtk+ mode and a gnome mode with extras? I seem to remember their being something like that.

* cellofellow is booting puppy in qemu

<Nameless-One> yeh i think

<Nameless-One> time to remove firefox and thunderbird

<cellofellow> qemu slows everything down

<cellofellow> la la la la la la la

<Nameless-One> vmware player O.o

* cellofellow likes open source

<cellofellow> is vmware player oss?

<Nameless-One> ROFL complete removal of firefox wants to remove xubuntu-desktop

<atarinox> does anybody have an idea why i can't right click the icons on the left side of my top panel?....I setup my launcher icons on the left side, but when i put a separator in between i can't right click (and get a menu) for some reason

<superkirbyartist> But it doesn't.

<cellofellow> Nameless-One: then remove xubuntu desktop but not any of the dependancies

<Nameless-One> no, i just want out with this firefox and thuderbird bs

<cellofellow> atarinox: you can't right click launchers?

<atarinox> cellofellow: no...not anymore, since i put a separator between them and the icons on the right side...

<cellofellow> that doesn't add up

<atarinox> i can't figure it out myself

<superkirbyartist> Just say my name if you want to tell me something.

<cellofellow> can you right click teh app menu or the separator?

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: ok

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: puppy's up and running now, or crawling more like

<atarinox> actually, i can right click the app menu, and i can right click the separator...but i've got two other icons, a general launcher and a terminal icon which i can't get to the menu and properties of

<superkirbyartist> cellofellow: It's because of emulation. My N64 emulated runs full speed.

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: I know

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: there isn't a presentation app in Pupppy, just Abiword and Gnumeric and Inkscape

<atarinox> cellofellow: and i can't right

<atarinox> click to remove the icons either

<cellofellow> atarinox: can they execute?

<superkirbyartist> Cellofellow:That's fine, thank you for looking. I will try that Criawips, it looks pretty good.

<cellofellow> superkirbyartist: best of luck

<superkirbyartist> Thank you cellofellow ^_^

<atarinox> cellofellow: no. they're not set to execute anything...i just right clicked the taskbar and added the icons, then added the separator...

<boris55> finally ubuntu will ship binary video drivers!!

<Nameless-One> BOOM

<crimsun> boris55: that's not necessarily a good thing

* cellofellow thinks they shouldn't

<crimsun> I don't support enabling them by default. At all.

<crimsun> Including them, yes. Enabling them, no.

<crimsun> We're sending the wrong message, imo, by enabling them by default.

<crimsun> However, Ubuntu is not my distro, and I'm just one of fifty-odd devs with opinions.

<crimsun> It's very nice for the users, which is why it's considered for Feisty.

<boris55> I think it will bring more users to linux. Although it's cake to install them now, so I don't see the difference.

<superkirbyartist> Yes, Criawips is GTK.

<crimsun> Well, I can see both sides of the argument.

<crimsun> It's just such a PitA to triage bug reports on non-free drivers.

<boris55> gotcha.

<boris55> would be nice if there was a good open source 3d acceleration.

<Nameless-One> personally, i dont care if something is open source or not, as long as its free

<boris55> 2006 was a good year for linux. 2007 will be even better.

<boris55> wasn't a big fan of ubuntu at the beginning of the year however that has changed a lot.

<JKnife> boris55: SOON! there is a on going project to write GPL nvidia drivers!

<boris55> but it will be a good year or so before they are usable.

*** globe_n is now known as globe

<globe> is there a way to install from cd w/o booting into livecd?

<Nameless-One> i'd probably still use the proprietary drivers

<Nameless-One> yeh, download the alternate install disc

<boris55> it's all about the 3d desktops that are just eye candy.

<Commander-Crowe> anyone here get the PS3?

<globe> Nameless-One: can't just run a command from the livecd boot menu by chance?

<Nameless-One> i dont think so

<JKnife> Commander-Crowe: and get shot? no thank you

<globe> Commander-Crowe: I could get one...they always ship waaay to much to this little hippie mountain town. problem is the cost is about 3 months budget

<JKnife> starve

<globe> lol...turns out I'm not much of a gamer either. It might be nice to make a profit off of ebay though

<globe> heh...they haven't even released them here yet. half hour still

* cellofellow thinks it would be interesting to see what a cluster of linux powered PS3's could do.

*** JKnife is now known as NotJKnife

<maxamillion> hello all

<globe> ooh...that would be cool. that cell processor could do some mean calculations

<maxamillion> wait, are we talking about putting linux on the ps3?

<maxamillion> i have been talking about that since terrasoft announced it

<globe> maxamillion: wait...you aren't at work are you

<maxamillion> nope

<maxamillion> at home :)

<cellofellow> hi maxamillion

<maxamillion> i don't only xubuntu at work ... i live in the xubuntu world, just generally talk more there because i do less at work then i do at home

<maxamillion> you know... basic sys-tech/net-admin job

<globe> cellofellow: just mentioned how a *cluster* of linux ps3s could...

<maxamillion> especially because i am just a student employee for the university, i don't have enough privilage to do anything

<globe> maxamillion: I can understand that one....

<maxamillion> yes .... yes it could and i think terrasoft thought of that and thus ... www.terrasoftsolutions.com

<maxamillion> (i think thats the url)

<globe> wow

<maxamillion> yeah :)

<cellofellow> hey maxamillion you said you'd read my article

<globe> ps3 doesn't run linux native does it?

<maxamillion> even more interesting, they are releasing YellowDog Linux for the PS3 before they are releasing their normal desktop/server versions

<cellofellow> http://digg.com/linux_unix/What_Novell_Should_Have_Done

<cellofellow> globe: yes it does

<maxamillion> cellofellow: i'm on it ;)

<globe> omg

<Commander-Crowe> I'm gonna get the PS2 now that its cheaper

<cellofellow> globe: sony includes yellowdog

<maxamillion> cellofellow: what?

<maxamillion> cellofellow: do they?

<cellofellow> I thought they did. Not as the primary OS sort of a secondary

<Nameless-One> O.O

<maxamillion> cellofellow: uhmmm... they _might_ but i am pretty sure terrasoft is selling it

<cellofellow> I think

<globe> hmm...I can't say I've ever even booted ydl

<maxamillion> cellofellow: i mean, its linux ... so sony could just burn cds and you can, as a user, just download iso images but they plan to sell it with corporate support (which i think is kinda cool)

<cellofellow> It's there mostly for the development of homebrew games

<globe> thats pretty cool

<maxamillion> globe: its for PowerPC only ... generally the older Apple hardware and alot of IBM server processors

<globe> maxamillion: maybe thats why :-|

<cellofellow> maxamillion: Apple still does PPC. They haven't totally switched to x86, just for the budget machines.

<maxamillion> globe: yeah, i have run it before on my iBookG4 ... its actually pretty nice ... its based off redhat/fedora but i like what they have done to it in general

<globe> so...if a computer is telling me about a buffer I/O on hda, is it clear to assume a bad hd?

* maxamillion goes to apple.com

<maxamillion> cellofellow: its all intel

<globe> maxamillion: if you still want a PPC, you can still buy refurb g5s and g4 books

<cellofellow> maxamillion: really? At first it was just the i-blank series and Mac Mini

<maxamillion> cellofellow: allll intel now :/

* cellofellow thought that Apple stuck to PPC cause they thought it was better overall than Intel.

<maxamillion> globe: yeah, i have my iBook 1Ghz G4 and its running Xubuntu like a champ

<globe> intel offered dual core....motorola (?) couldn't come close. Jobbs wanted to be the first to jump the multicore market

<cellofellow> I thought that G5's were IBM.

<globe> maybe it was ibm...I don't remember who made the ppc chips

<maxamillion> globe: no, there were dual G5s ... Apple has been maintaining a x86 version of os x for years anticipating the switch ... it wasn't as suddon as everyone thought it was

<maxamillion> yeah ... G3-IBM, G4-Motorola, G5-IBM ... Motorola and IBM originally developed the architecture together

<globe> wiki: "is a RISC microprocessor architecture created by the 1991 Apple–IBM–Motorola "

<globe> lol

<maxamillion> :)

<cellofellow> I think both Motorola and IBM made PPCs. G4 was a Motorola Chip and G5 an IBM chip.

<maxamillion> i took processor architecture class ;)

<maxamillion> cellofellow: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

<cellofellow> :-)

<cellofellow> max what about the article/blog post?

<globe> maxamillion: what u r u @?

<maxamillion> cellofellow: i am trying to read it and talk in here.... its going slow

<maxamillion> globe: huh?

<globe> lol... what univ are you at?

<cellofellow> maxamillion: ah, I'll be quiet

<maxamillion> globe: oooh, Sam Houston State down in Texas

<maxamillion> cellofellow: no worries

<cellofellow> What was the big speed deal about powerpc?

<globe> sorry...sometimes I abbreviate without thinking. I wish there was more architecture classes here

* cellofellow says was cause it seems to be dead.

<globe> cellofellow: I think (its been awhile) that the biggest difference was the flops vs an intel-type chip

<cellofellow> flops?

<globe> floating point operations per second

<cellofellow> ok

* cellofellow isn't a hardware/assembler guru

<globe> as I remember, when g4 came out, a mac could do about 10x an intel

<cellofellow> what was intel at then? PIII?

* globe had one class in general computer architecture...

<globe> cellofellow: i forget, thats been what 6 years? p3 sounds good

* cellofellow has a p3 450mhz, 319MB RAM, and 13GB HDD

<maxamillion> cellofellow: no, intel had just released the p3 when the g4 first came out ... let us remember that the g4 started at roughly 350MHz

<globe> indeed...apple never ever pushed MHz's like wintels did. As it turns out, its not so important after all (once you get above a certain speed the hd is too slow to really benefit from a speedy processor)

<globe> hence sata

* cellofellow has just lowly IDE drives.

* globe gives cellofellow a pat on the back....says "IDE is fine for me too"

<maxamillion> cellofellow: ok, about the article .... first: Novell didn't advertise to the masses because IBM's year long linux ad campagne ended up wasting millions... second, SuSE already has deals setup with hp/compaq, dell, and Sun microsystems ... along with other vendors like monarch computers who will all ship SLED10 or SuSE10.1 at request (some companies only offer it on specific models, but they do offer it) .... what

<cellofellow> ok

<maxamillion> cellofellow: http://www.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/

<cellofellow> but from what I understand with IBM is that that was sort of weird, seeing as IBM doesn't distribute a linux anyways

<maxamillion> http://www.dell.com/linux

<maxamillion> http://www.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

<cellofellow> dell only ships freedos on its n-series desktops

<cellofellow> they say "pcik your own linux"

<maxamillion> right, they don't but they had just spent a lot of money moving their IBM-POWER series processors to linux (i think it was RH at the time) so they wanted to get the awareness about it up

<cellofellow> ok

<maxamillion> now ... is there anything _wrong_ with your blog? ... no, it has very valid points ... my reply is simply my opinion of why they didn't take those steps

<cellofellow> I thought that there were these deals that M$ had with OEM's that basicly say we'll jack up the price of the software if you leave for Linux.

<maxamillion> now, should Novell signed with Microsoft??? fsck no!!!! .... but i have read alot of people talk about reasons why they shouldn't have and just don't exactly know all the fact just yet

<cellofellow> maxamillion: well, I just wish they had tried something. But fighting 800lbs gorillas is hard.

<globe> cellofellow: technically its "sign with us and we'll give you a lower price"

<cellofellow> of course

<maxamillion> cellofellow: who said leave? ... HP has been offering its own linux flavor on servers for 4 years

<globe> but we all know that it really works the other way around

<cellofellow> HP also has its own UNIX.

<maxamillion> cellofellow: called HP-UX (might have been UNIX, can't remember)

<maxamillion> errr... i need to eat, i shall return ... good convo :)

<cellofellow> t'ain't linux, been around longer than that.

*** maxamillion is now known as max_foodz0r

<cellofellow> Yeah, I once checked out a book at the library on UNIX. It was published by HP and talked about HP-UX first of all, then AIX then Solaris. Sort of mentioned *BSD and Linux

<cellofellow> A lot of CLI stuff.

* globe likes CLI....most of the time

* cellofellow likes it too, but can't figure out how to do certain things with it.

*** NotJKnife is now known as JKnife

<cellofellow> like write reports

<globe> ...vi?

<cellofellow> hmm. I've got homework. I have this little game I have to write.

<cellofellow> strike have instert get

<cellofellow> globe: you write reports that have to be sent in to teachers with vi?

* cellofellow thinks globe must be brave.

<globe> I don't, but there is nothing stopping you ;-)

<max_foodz0r> cellofellow: what game? ... i took a game programming course ... it was alot of fun

<max_foodz0r> .... food, yeah .. food

* max_foodz0r is stuffing his face

<cellofellow> the game is supposed to be a text based shoot-the-monster game.

<globe> ... text based fps?

<cellofellow> no, text based, like nethack sort of.

<globe> like a mud?

<cellofellow> You start on a grid, the mosnster is somewhere random on the grid. You have to get in range of it and shoot it.

<cellofellow> You can't see it but it can see you.

<cellofellow> First non-example type thing I've had to code.

<cellofellow> It's in C

<globe> sounds cool. is it for a game class?

<cellofellow> nope. I've a private "teacher", a guy in my homeschool co-op that is teaching me programming.

<globe> hmm...interesting. I am teaching a high school age homeschooler some opengl programming....

<globe> (as I learn it in my college class ;-)

<cellofellow> cool.

* cellofellow hasn't gotten on to anything graphical yet.

<globe> graphics are easy. game logistics are hard. nail logistics and then add the swell of graphics

<cellofellow> I'm just starting with The C Programming Language so I can learn the basics that apply to all languages. Then I intend to move to Java.

<cellofellow> what is your language of choice?

<globe> cellofellow: I learned java, then c++ (not had a chance for c). Honestly I would do c++ first, Java is cool, but any shmuck with an IDE can program java.

<globe> c++ takes some skill, and more thought.

<cellofellow> When I was like 9 or 10 I tried Visual Basic 6.

<globe> but that is my opinion....

<cellofellow> I think that't the basic opinion of my mentor.

<globe> java is also alot more typing to get the same thing done:

<globe> System.out.print("hi"); -> cout << "hi";

<cellofellow> is it long winded then?

<globe> java vs c++...

<globe> yes very much so.

<cellofellow> gee, that is long. printf("Hi\n");

<cellofellow> that's C's stdio.h

<globe> yep

<globe> cellofellow: java is 'higher level' meaning closer to human language. c++ is lower level (closer to machine)

<cellofellow> yeah, I've figured that out. :-)

<globe> generally speaking, the higher level, the more typing for the programmer (with the exception of assembly programming....)

<cellofellow> ok

<cellofellow> also, most high-levels are interpretted, right? instead of compiled?

<cellofellow> or semi-compiled like Java

<globe> usually. there are exceptions though, like perl. pretty low level language, but its interpreted

<Nameless-One> hey all

<globe> tt

<globe> hey

<Nameless-One> whats the topic of discussion

<cellofellow> programming

<globe> programming languages.... c++ vs java (sort of)

<Nameless-One> C++ FTW

<globe> FTW? for the world?

<Nameless-One> win

<globe> oohh

<cellofellow> c vs java actually. I'm doing C, not c++.

<Nameless-One> O.O

<globe> true enough

* cellofellow will get to c++ along the way.

*** max_foodz0r is now known as maxamillion

<cellofellow> the game is Mugwump, and the weapon is arroys. I wanted to be a little original and go with jaberwocky, but id have throw the Zorpol Sword and that doesn't work.

<globe> lol

<globe> I like the idea

<Nameless-One> O.o

<cellofellow> Any other cool-named monsters you can think of?

<maxamillion> cellofellow: i haven't updated in a while ... but my last blog actually discussed programming languages and how they should be taught, its completely opinion based and i my opinion on this topic changes like the weather, but i think over all the one in the blog is always kinda my base

<globe> hmm...zelda?

<maxamillion> cellofellow: http://pseudogen.blogspot.com/ ....forgot the link

<cellofellow> :-)

<Nameless-One> name of monster: ubotu

<cellofellow> lol

<globe> maxamillion: oooh...thats a good topic

<cellofellow> more fantasy

<maxamillion> :) thankies

<maxamillion> my next blog entry will be about C follies

<Nameless-One> dam

<globe> anybody want to suggest a topic for my senior research project for my BS is CSIS? ... next semester is coming soon

<cellofellow> maxamillion: I'm sure C has plenty being from like the 60's, but it's what I'm doing.

<globe> I am thinking device programming or something like that

* cellofellow has a neighbor who does devices.

<maxamillion> cellofellow: C is incredible, but to know C and to understand C are two completely different things

<cellofellow> probably

* cellofellow is still a newb making text games.

<cellofellow> What about Bilbo and one of those huge spiders in Mirkwood?

<cellofellow> Bilbo kills a lot with rocks

<maxamillion> that's a really good place to start because you will do alot of i/o and i/o in C is a little rough

<Nameless-One> ooohhhh i want to play it

<cellofellow> so far just getchar and putchar, and scanf and printf

<cellofellow> Nameless-One: give me a week or so.

<maxamillion> but the thing about C is that when you code C, you can compile in completely valid syntax but without knowledge of what is actually happening you can get some very interesting output

<cellofellow> gcc seems somewhat, er, forgiving.

<maxamillion> cellofellow: gcc is really good, but fails in some areas .. they claim to have ANSI99 support, but in actuality only fully support ANSI90 with _alot_ of the '99 features

<cellofellow> that was a little over my head.

<cellofellow> I just say that little mistakes can go throught the compiler just fine.

<maxamillion> i've never had problems and the linux kernel is compiled completely with gcc, so i don't see the complaints ... but a professor at Rice University said he went through the source code completely last summer and it is missing some features

<cellofellow> then he should tell RMS.

* cellofellow hasn't even gotten on to multiple source files and needing makefiles. Just turn one source file into one executable.

<maxamillion> cellofellow: well ... in 1990 there was a spec made called ANSI90 that said "these are the official features that must be supported by all C compilers that will say 'ANSI90' compliant (or something of the sort) and then the same thing with ANSI99, just some newer features

<cellofellow> ok

<cellofellow> so gcc isn't quite up to date

<maxamillion> cellofellow: like the primitive type bool wasn't originally supported ... you just used an unsigned int and 1 was true and 0 was false

<maxamillion> well ... it is but it isn't ... i don't want to say it's not, but this guy is uber leet so i don't want to doubt him either

* cellofellow had wondered where a true/false variable had gone.

<cellofellow> I still remember some VB

<cellofellow> there was a boolean variable.

<maxamillion> bool is actually just a C macro for "unsigned int where false = 0 and true = anything not 0"

<maxamillion> which actually goes into part of what my next blog will cover ... but i will send you a link once i write it

* cellofellow just adds it to google reader

<maxamillion> :)

<maxamillion> uhmmm... i'll brb, need to take my dog out to make potty

<globe> whew...leav the computer for a sec and have to play catchup

<cellofellow> lol I've done that

<cellofellow> but reading the backlog is a lot quicker than just chatting

<globe> true

<phlasphy> hey all

<cellofellow> hi

<globe> maxamillion: nice blog. I agree for the most part.

<globe> hello

<maxamillion> thankies

<maxamillion> hey phlasphy

<globe> "you fail at life" lol...

<phlasphy> what is the directory that icons are stored at?

<maxamillion> globe: yeah, i actually wrote that blog entry because me and a friend were talking about the topic for like an hour

<maxamillion> globe: where did i write that?

<phlasphy> i would like to add another icon

<maxamillion> phlasphy: /usr/share/icons/

<phlasphy> thanks

<maxamillion> np

<maxamillion> be sure to use sudo if you are going to add something

<globe> maxamillion: in the assembly section.

* maxamillion is looking

<globe> maxamillion: twice actually

<phlasphy> umm where in there do i put it?

<maxamillion> lol ... yeah, it was a fun night

<maxamillion> phlasphy: /usr/share/icons/Tango/<category> ... iirc

<phlasphy> can i use a PNG as an icon?

<cellofellow> png, xpm, or xvg work

<cellofellow> svg

<maxamillion> phlasphy: i was slightly off ... /usr/share/icons/Tango/scalable/<category> .... yeah, png is ok

<phlasphy> thanks all

<maxamillion> np

<phlasphy> all of them say SVG

<maxamillion> globe: but yeah ... notice when i wrote it .. "Tuesday, August 29, 2006" ... i am need of an update

<globe> maxamillion: my two cents....: I think python should be taught first first (syntax defined code!), then (if needed) java for object oriented, then c++ for pointers, assembly for low level/compiler appreciation, then freedom (real world as you put it)

<cellofellow> maxamillion: you seem to really think that SUSE is as good as it gets commercially. You still think that now or have you joined the "novell partnered with the devil" bandwagon?

<phlasphy> it says that i can not modify that folder

<maxamillion> globe: that would also be a good education track

<cellofellow> phlasphy: globe said use sudo

<globe> maxamillion: nah...my last tech blog update was on july 28 and it wasn't even techie ;-)

<phlasphy> ohh ok

<maxamillion> cellofellow: i think SuSE currently has the best corporate setup of client/server operating systems that are fully capable of replacing windows in the workplace "out of box"

<phlasphy> umm how do i do it i am in firefox and trying to save an image directly into that direstory

<phlasphy> how do i add sudo there?

* cellofellow just wishes novell had either better luck or a better business sense, or both.

<globe> phlasphy: I would probably save it to desktop then cp to icon directory

<maxamillion> cellofellow: RedHat has alot of good things, i must admit, but i think since the release of SLES/SLED ... no other corporate linux distro is geared towards business as well

<globe> (as sudo)

<phlasphy> cp

<cellofellow> sudo cp file newfile

<phlasphy> ?

<cellofellow> or gksu thunar

<cellofellow> graphical way

<phlasphy> ok

<maxamillion> sudo Thunar works too ;)

<cellofellow> if you use the run dialog, gksu all the way

* cellofellow has the verve command line applet on his panel.

<globe> maxamillion: you dont happen to know how to get gcc to display line numbers instead of hex offsets in its errors do you?

<maxamillion> cellofellow: i would really like to see canonical get in the middle of all this within the next couple of years and kinda take over because what i see happening is that Novell will get owned by MS, redhat will face some law suit from ms in reguards to patents they take from novell and then there lies the corporate linux world needing to be cleaned up .... hark! do i hear ubuntu's horse and carriage off in the dista

<maxamillion> globe: use g++ ?

<cellofellow> Yeah, Canonical's golden opportunity is coming soon.

<maxamillion> globe: but ... no, not really ... there is a flag, lemme check

<cellofellow> They'd better not miss it.

<JKnife> cellofellow: they havn't missed one yet

* cellofellow uses gcc and gets line numbers.

<cellofellow> :-)

<Nameless-One> O.O

<globe> maxamillion: heh...sneaky. g++ gives me offsets too...

<maxamillion> globe: what? ... it has never for me

<phlasphy> i cant see it there?

<globe> 'project10000.cpp:(.text+0xe86): undefined reference to '

<JKnife> ahh linking stage

<maxamillion> globe: gcc foo.c -o foo

<maxamillion> hey JKnife

<JKnife> HIYA

<phlasphy> i try to change the icon for the thunderbird launcer and i cant see it there i added it to the folder

<globe> maxamillion: yep thats my command....with some libs

<cellofellow> isn't g++ for c++? so g++ foo.cpp -o foo

<JKnife> he is getting hex b/c of linking

<maxamillion> phlasphy: did you click "browse"?

<phlasphy> where do i click that?

<globe> JKnife: do I have to do something to link in my own class (other than the #inc)?

<cellofellow> phlasphy: the launcher icon thing is sort of weird.

<maxamillion> cellofellow: yeah ... same difference ...

<phlasphy> ok

<JKnife> it is due to a missing lib or source file

<cellofellow> phlasphy: you got the dialog open?

* maxamillion clobbers JKnife

<maxamillion> i shoulda known that :/

<JKnife> or bad coding

<globe> I am thinking that it cant find my class

<phlasphy> i have where i am looking through all the icons

<maxamillion> gotta go, company is here

<maxamillion> later everyone!!!!

<JKnife> NO

* globe ducks under that one

<JKnife> :'(

<phlasphy> i dont like the stock thunderbirs icon

<phlasphy> i dont like the stock thunderbird icon

<cellofellow> phlasphy: just put the full path into the box where it pyts the path anyways. like /usr/share/icons/Tango/scaleable/apps/foo.zvg

<cellofellow> or too that effect

<JKnife> svg*

<phlasphy> it is a png file

<cellofellow> and you can just leave the file in the your home dir

<cellofellow> phlasphy: oh, wll makes no diff it can do png, xpm, or svg

<phlasphy> ok but the launcher does not have a browse button?

<cellofellow> it does but typing the full path to the file works better.

<phlasphy> i cant see a place to type it?

<cellofellow> select other in the box on the left

<cellofellow> button

<phlasphy> i see

<cellofellow> now put the full path, and since the file'

<cellofellow> s just for you just leave it in /home/phlashpy instead of /usr/share/icons

<phlasphy> damn it has white around it :(

<cellofellow> no trasnparecny?

<phlasphy> nah

* cellofellow has fixed those with the gimp

<phlasphy> phlasphy doesnt like gimp

<cellofellow> phlasphy: send me the file and I'll gimp it

* cellofellow wants to know how to use /dcc

<phlasphy> lol

<phlasphy> umm

<cellofellow> never mind. bedtime

<cellofellow> the gimp can do it though

<globe> lol...

<globe> anybody know a good online tutorial for makefiles?

<phlasphy> noflex, hey, how are you today?

<phlasphy> ok then dont talk to me noflex

<phlasphy> bye all

<Commander-Crowe> eh

<Commander-Crowe> whatsa good text editor/compiler for the Python programming language?

<Jester45> could anyone tell me if its possible to get debs from the repos without useing apt

<Jester45> please

<Commander-Crowe> packages.debian.org

<Jester45> thanks

<DavidTangye> Hi all. Has anyone had a problem with slow nfs mounting?

<phlasphy> hey all

<phlasphy> what is a good program for ripping an audio cd

<phlasphy> ???

<Commander-Crowe> grip

<phlasphy> Commander-Crowe, are there any others?

<Commander-Crowe> sound juicer

<phlasphy> what do you use?

<Commander-Crowe> frip

<Commander-Crowe> grip*

<phlasphy> ok

<phlasphy> umm also what is the best media player IHO

<phlasphy> in your opinon

<hyper_ch> hiho :)

<hyper_ch> are you xubuntu pros?

<hyper_ch> :)

<phlasphy> im not

<hyper_ch> maybe you can help anyway... you know KDE?

<phlasphy> a bit my brother uses it

<hyper_ch> well, in KDE you can easily setup a background image slide show... is there a way to do that in xfce also?

<phlasphy> ahh

<phlasphy> i was trying to do that lol

<phlasphy> as far as i got was that each time you restarted it changed

<hyper_ch> that's the only thing that keeps further using KDE :)

<hyper_ch> I have like.... 24k images :) so I change them like every 2 min :)

<phlasphy> lol

<phlasphy> i have no idea sorry

<hyper_ch> it's ok :)

<phlasphy> Commander-Crowe, how do i make flac play?

<phlasphy> in amarok?

<hyper_ch> httrack helped me to get so many images ;)

<Commander-Crowe> flac?

<Commander-Crowe> hrm

<Commander-Crowe> open up synaptics

<phlasphy> yeah

<Commander-Crowe> download ffmpeg

<phlasphy> ok

<Commander-Crowe> flac

<Commander-Crowe> a52

<Commander-Crowe> mad and libmad

<phlasphy> ok

<Commander-Crowe> dvdread

<Commander-Crowe> dvdnav

<Commander-Crowe> heh

<Commander-Crowe> those are for dvds though

<Commander-Crowe> also um

<Commander-Crowe> faac

<Commander-Crowe> !seavas

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seavas - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<Commander-Crowe> !seaves

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seaves - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<phlasphy> i am going to reinstall my xubuntu later on

<Commander-Crowe> !w32codec

<phlasphy> infact i am thinking about going back to slackware

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about w32codec - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<Commander-Crowe> !extra codecs

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about extra codecs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<Commander-Crowe> !saevas

<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about saevas - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi

<Commander-Crowe> !seveas

<ubotu> Seveas has a popular 3rd party repository for several packages. More info (and mirrors) on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages

<Commander-Crowe> THERE

<Commander-Crowe> ok

<Commander-Crowe> go there

<Commander-Crowe> and download w32codecs

<Commander-Crowe> and libdvdcss2

<Commander-Crowe> then all will play

*** irc.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ

<hyper_ch> Commander-Crowe: you're there?

<Commander-Crowe> yeah

<hyper_ch> you don't happen to know how to make a background slideshow with xfce?

<Commander-Crowe> no

<Commander-Crowe> I don't

<hyper_ch> too bad

<darrend> I run 'aptitude update && aptitude upgrade -Vs' every day. For about 4 weeks I've seen no packages to be upgraded. Does that sound right or have I got my sources.list wrong? (using edgy)

<irvin> last security update was on nov. 16

<darrend> was that the libpng one?

<irvin> darrend, yes

<darrend> I got that via the unattended security update feature. I'm just surprised no other updates appear to be coming through: is that normal?

<irvin> yes

<irvin> gtg

<esc> Hurray, as of monday i am a linux syssy :-)

<TheSheep> esc: boss got convinced?

<esc> actually no

<esc> or... not yet

<esc> but due to my CV and what i've been heliping sofar

<esc> one of the schools we work for wants a "linux-freak"

<esc> and i got the job

<sensei> Oooh schools.. fun fun fun

<sensei> Youäre in for it now ;)

<sensei> You're

<esc> just found out on friday b4 going home

<esc> it good, cause working with and around linux means i can put stuff back into the open-source process, while getting payed for it too

<esc> in case we need any special scripts or stuff that doesn't exist yet

<TheSheep> or to improve existing

<esc> exactly, or testing too

<esc> should be nice

<esc> i'll have to get Edubuntu out in german :-)

<sensei> esc, what kind of a school is it ?

<TheSheep> sa

<esc> primary school

<TheSheep> schools are nice places to admin

<esc> ages 6-12

<TheSheep> the pay is lousey, but you have lots of freedom

<esc> yeah and it beats being unemployed and doing linux stuff at home, like admining our flat network and such

<sensei> I thought it sucked when I worked at a school

<esc> why, sensei?

<sensei> But that wasn't a primary.. It was a high school. All the fscking kids reading packetstorm and think they're cool with yaping and shit like that

<sensei> Not to mention the constant fwscking content filtering

<sensei> Hm, sry for language

<esc> yeah i bet, highschools with teenagers and youngsters must be troublesome

<TheSheep> ah, yes, that's a problem, I'm on a university, we don't do filtering

<esc> but this should be okay for a while, until i find something better, and it should look great on my CV

<TheSheep> just scold some students for using p2p once in a while, when there comes a complaint letter

<esc> actually having worked as a syssy, and not just doing linux-hobby

<esc> yeah i always had a good relationship with the syssys at our uni

<sensei> TheSheep: hehe

<sensei> What's a syssy ? :O

<TheSheep> sissy sysadmin? :P

<sensei> lol

<esc> hehe

<sensei> But seriously, what does it mean ?

<sensei> I've just assumed it's sys admin

<esc> it is

<sensei> So where does the y comein? :)

<TheSheep> miniscule

<esc> spell it anyway you like, sissi, syssi sissy

<sensei> This makes no sense :)

<esc> and the great thing is, its only 6 hrs a day

<TheSheep> esc: 'only'?

<esc> well, normally it would be 8

<sensei> esc, how much pay is it ?

<TheSheep> esc: are you the only one, or is there more people?

<esc> its very very little

<esc> and apparently i am on my own for the moment

<esc> i'll find out more on monday

<esc> in germany

<TheSheep> ouch, expect to work 8h/day or even 12h then :P

<esc> we have kinda high unemployment

<TheSheep> lol

<esc> so i get bebefits

<esc> benefits

<TheSheep> esc: *you* have high unemployment?

<sensei> Who doesn't these days

<sensei> Except for Poland.. since everyone from there currently works here in the UK

<esc> so i get around 550 € a months

* TheSheep slaps sensei with a Cisco Catalyst User Guide

<esc> for rent and food

<esc> and then i'll get 1.50 € an hour

<esc> for this job

<sensei> TheSheep, it's borderline true :)

<esc> so thats around 830 € a month total

<esc> and cause the pay is so low

<TheSheep> sensei: yeah, only people too stupid to learn english are left here

<sensei> esc, gross or net?

<esc> it will only be 6 hours a day

<esc> net

<sensei> ouch

<esc> but hopefully they may realise my talent a give me a descent contract etc..

<sensei> TheSheep: Golden opportunity for someone reasonably bright :)

<TheSheep> esc: that just means they will pay you for 6h/day not 8h/day for the same job

<TheSheep> sensei: but I like Poland :/

<esc> yeah but i get payed for hours

<sensei> Yeah, in 9 cases out of 10, don't expect to go home spot on every day

<esc> so i will leave after 6 hours...

<TheSheep> esc: haha

<esc> i will just go

<esc> :-)

<TheSheep> esc: haha

<esc> with that pay

<esc> and if they complain, i'll explain to them, that my pay is so low, they can't expect me to do extra hours

<TheSheep> esc: you will stay overnight just to get the problem solved, and you will be glad about that

<esc> i may yes

<TheSheep> esc: and they know that

<esc> but i'll probabyl end up doing that remotely from home

<TheSheep> esc: still it's work

<esc> yeah it beats being unemployed any day

<esc> and its a foothold, which may lead to something better

<esc> i mean, having been unemployed for over a year, i'm gonna have to get used to getting up on time again

<TheSheep> yes

<TheSheep> it'

<TheSheep> it's actually good

<esc> yes, thats how i feel about it

<sensei> I currently average 10 hours per day :(

<sensei> Weekends excluded

<sensei> And I refuse to work from home.. I like to keep work and private life separate

<esc> its still kinda sucky, having been to uni for 6 years, having done a Bsc and a Master in CS, i get to be unemployed for a year, and now have this kind a low-income job

<esc> wtf...

<esc> i'm totally overqualified for this sh1t

<esc> i should have never come back to germany

<esc> and once i learn Japanese i'll be outtie for good

<esc> this country (Germany) is going to pot seriously

<esc> there are 130,000 young pros leaving every year

<sensei> Most countries do as far as I'm concerned

<esc> and more than that in unqualified foreigners and political POWs coming in

<esc> yeah,,, i do wonder whats the best place on this planet at the moment???

<esc> with global warming and employment and so on

<sensei> I know, but I won't tell.. so you don't go there and hog my future job ;)

<esc> ROFL sensei

<esc> apparently switzerland is supposed to be quite good

<esc> such are the rumors

<sensei> Yeah, they've got nice skiing ;)

<esc> indeed

<esc> dangerous, but fun

<esc> and your contract will probably prevent you frm it

<sensei> My german is too carp now adays, and Swiss people has got one heck of an accent

<esc> dude... its not german they speak :-)

<sensei> lol, true

<TheSheep> they speak everything

<TheSheep> actually sysops are wanted everywhere

<TheSheep> and if you can do big iron, you're set for life :)

<sensei> We filled a vacancy last week

<TheSheep> we filled 2

<TheSheep> with 2nd year students

<sensei> It was good.. I got him to add 14 nagios entries, mohah

<TheSheep> now they are on their rollercoaster ride to catch up :)

<esc> what uni r u at TheSheep ?

<esc> anywhere in scotland perchance?

<TheSheep> http://amu.edu.pl

<sensei> Scotland? :)

<esc> yeah i lived there for 6 years

<sensei> I'm so sorry

<sensei> j/k ;)

<esc> its a hole, but its great fun :)

<TheSheep> http://www.guide.amu.edu.pl/mathematics/index.htm

<TheSheep> what a crappy page :/

<sensei> I haven't been anywhere bug Glasgow and Edinburgh

<sensei> but*

<esc> right i better go afk for a while, and do the things one does on saturdays when one has a job, laundry cleaning mail etc..

<esc> you've not missed anything sensei... thats scotland for you

<esc> :-)

<sensei> hehe I suppose

<sensei> Wouldn't mind go hiking in the highlands at some point tho

* sensei is a sucker for scenery

<TheSheep> sensei: come to polish or czech mountains

<TheSheep> sensei: Tatry are beautiful

<sensei> I wouldn't mind a visit to the czech republic

<sensei> But most of my travel expenses goes to go back "home" to Sweden and spend time with family and stuff

<sensei> And work only ever takes me to the netherlands, france, ireland and scotland :/

<Moad> hello , i have a problem with my modem , when i first start the modem it work pretty well for like 10 minutes and then disconnects and doesnt work after untill i shut down the pc , turn off the modem , start up the pc and then turn on the modem again and then the same thing happens again , what can i do

<Moad> ?

<Moad> no one can help ?

<TheSheep> Moad: wgat kind of modem is it?

<TheSheep> what

<Moad> its a on usb modem , connected with an ethernet card

<Moad> *non-usb

<Moad> network modem or how u call it

<TheSheep> I doubt the problem is linux-related :/

<Moad> what then ?

<Moad> it works fine for a period of time and then it goes off

<TheSheep> did you try to check the help on the modem's producer page?

<Moad> its and ECI modem i think

<Moad> the webpage is eciadsl.flashtux.com

<Moad> but i cant find my modem there because it seems that those are all USB modems there